Learning to Trust Myself

[heatherg]

Funny, if my W had just kissed somebody and then regretted it, instead of being ready to leave me and the kids and completely falling for Om, I'd probably have developed an overwrought sense of justice and shielded myself with that instead of figuring out I was living wrong and needed to change NOW

You know, I posed that question on one of my older threads. How many of the LBS's would have been acting like my H~honestly~had their partner immediately ended the A and was remorseful. I think only one person responded to that and she said the same thing as you.

I'd love to sit down with him and see if he could learn from my mistakes

H is too stubborn to realize that he's caught his fingers in the door when he slammed it shut. As I said above, he's proud, indignant, judgmental, stubborn and respectful of few. He's a breed of his own. He will not request help nor would he take it if it was offered. HE doesn't need help afterall. It is me who is delusional.

you see him a lot like my wife saw/sees me, especially the part about not caring anything about her

My H's actions in the past are practically proof that I have not been first in his life. I have literally come second to a dog. There are many instances where he has all but said that what I want doesn't matter. H loves to get into this sparring where when what I want differs from what he wants and I try to talk to him about it, he will simply turn it around and say that I'm not caring about what he wants. I suppose that is very coarsely true, but you can see where nothing is solved.
On my last thread for example, I had several posts on pornography. H apparently has a "thing" for it and I find it incredibly disrespectful and think he is quite frankly betraying me by doing whatever it is he does. We've had several conversations on the topic and even more arguments. But recently I said "you've never given a resolution on the pornography issue, never said whether or not you intend to stop". He said he would not. To me, there's no two ways to look at that. He simply doesn't care how I feel. But if I say that, he'll turn it around and say "NO, you're not respecting how I feel". Pointless.

[still_hopeful]

The tricky part is to fight for that side of my H while letting the other half know he is no longer welcome in my life.

This here is a good goal. Now, specifically tell us, what can you do to validate and promote the side of your H you cherish, and what can you do to set some healthy boundaries in a non-confrontational way?
I think maybe ignoring the pornog. for now may be best. Some times you have to put some things on the shelf for a bit because it is too much to try to change all at once. Pick and choose what you think is priority and work on those.
Also, how can you really change the interactions when H is getting heated? Think through this 180 carefully. This is a good opportunity for you to change the dynamic. Part of what will help you to not lose your cool is to detach. Start looking at this from the outside, not so personal, as if you are watching a character in a movie. Take your time to respond, don't react. This stuff takes practice. If you are feeling reactive, say nothing. You don't have the power over how your H acts, but you do over how you act. You are strong enough to be here and going through this, so I think you are strong enough to change this dynamic. Right now, maybe that is the priority so you and your family isn't living in so much tension.

[heatherg]

how can you really change the interactions when H is getting heated?

The thing about this is that H doesn't have anything to get heated about. I don't want to make myself sound perfect, but I go to work (where I am successful and make good money), I am motivated, I clean the house, I do my share in taking care of the kids and making dinner, I go to karate usually twice a week for two hours. That is my life. I rarely deviate from that.
The problems come in when I am upset or feel provoked. Provoked by his total lack of consideration for me. Blaring music, blaring TV, not helping with housework, not helping to instill in the kids that we need to keep toys picked up. We have a very small house, we outgrew it years ago. But we were waiting until we could afford *the* house before we moved. So, we have no closet space, nothing has a place to be put away to. It's frustrating. But H continues to buy toys for the kids like there's no tomorrow. I am not lying to you or exaggerating in any way when I tell you that you cannot walk in S4's room because there are too many toys on the floor. And he gets more EVERY week, more than once a week. The toys are just as much H's as they are S4's, so if I were to try to sort through them and do something with them, H would have a fit. We have Rubbermaid bins full of toys all over the house and there are even toys that S4 is not allowed to play with unless Daddy is there (b/c, like I said, many of the toys actually belong to H!).

As far as the house goes, H feels that because he takes care of the outside, that the inside is my job. He does his own laundry but usually leaves his clothes in the dryer until have to remove them or plead with him to do something with them.

H knows he has power over me in this area and he uses it daily. We got attic stairs last year because I paid someone to put them in. Before that, we had to get a huge ladder out of the shed and bring it in the house to get in the attic. I would ask H to help me put stuff up there or get stuff down, he would put it off until he was damn good and ready to help me. Finally I started getting the ladder and doing it myself. I must have looked like an idiot trying to carry that stupid ladder by myself, but I did it and I didn't care what I looked like. I was always fuming. So finally, I got someone to put in attic stairs so that I can take advantage of the space up there and easily retrieve things myself. H was not happy about it.

These are but a few of the instances that really get to me. So, it seems it is actually me that gets heated. H offers no help or no solutions, only adds to the problems. When I get frustrated, things get bad. He'll do the opposite of what I ask, he'll ignore me. He feels absolutely no guilt about cuddling with the kids or sleeping in on the weekends or playing with the kids in the mound of toys I'm trying to get S4 to help pick up.

He has a total lack of respect and appreciation for me and wants to live as though I am not here. Unless of course we're going somewhere fun as a family or he wants to sleep in. Then he wants to live as if I'm here. HELP ME COPE!!!

So, to help you see how my frustration often leads to dire consequences, see in my earlier thread where H was blaring TV and woke me up at midnight. Couldn't get back to sleep. After two requests, I lost it. After that, H decided I would not be taking our kids to daycare anymore. Seems like an odd consequence, but it will make sense if you read it.

Part of what will help you to not lose your cool is to detach. Start looking at this from the outside, not so personal, as if you are watching a character in a movie.

This is a good, practical way of explaining how to detach. Thanks!

If you are feeling reactive, say nothing.

I'm gonna be a really quiet girl from now on....

[NYsurvivor]

my goal is to change my behavior so that our interactions won't be so dysfunctional. Like you've said on other posts, spouses will fight change. I think that's what H is doing. He's fighting to keep it dysfuctional

Put down the "After The Affair" book and start reading the "Emotionally Abusive" book. The changes in you that you need to make are in regard to how H is treating you, and that book will help you in that direction. "After The Affair" presupposes that the partners wish to work things out productively, that they're just stuck in understanding each other and what to do. In marriage counseling, counseling those committed couples has a higher rate of success than counseling as a couple when there are predominant individual issues standing in the way. Such is your case. In your case, because of H's behaviors, it will be a continual power struggle, nothing you do will ever be good enough, and H undermining, with his actions, any steps you take to repair the relationship as he does anything and says everything to grasp back the status quo every time.

H still hasn't gotten the picture that I'm not playing the game anymore". But first I have to do a really, really good job of demonstrating that I'm not playing the game anymore.

Yep, in other words, change the status quo, and let's go right to the obstacle standing in the way, which is the unsurmountable hump that H's controlling behaviors keep creating. Read that book!!!!!! I also think that going to a MC might work, just because they'll pick up on H and know he'll need IC, though I also think, given the nature of the beast, H will likely refuse to see a MC, because he doesn't want to give up what he perceives is control over himself to another party.

It has to be. He needs to change! Otherwise, even if you are successful in some measure, you're only headed right back to the very things that made you unhappy and will make you dissatisfied again.

[Burgbud]

How many of the LBS's would have been acting like my H~honestly~had their partner immediately ended the A and was remorseful. I think only one person responded to that and she said the same thing as you.

It's interesting. If your spouse is out the door, especially if they're with somebody else, your choices are quite limited. You can stay the same, in which case the sitch will remain the same, or you can change and hope that change eventually gets reflected in the R. But if the spouse wants back then stubborn, prideful people (such as myself not too long ago) get to keeping thinking we're right and you're delusional. It's almost unfortunate. Not that I recommend you follow my wife's example to get H to wake up. But I do think that as you develop your inner strength and self-esteem through this, you're going to leave him if he doesn't come around a bit. My wife would have left me a long time ago if she'd been healthier and more emotionally stable.

H is too stubborn to realize that he's caught his fingers in the door when he slammed it shut. As I said above, he's proud, indignant, judgmental, stubborn and respectful of few. He's a breed of his own. He will not request help nor would he take it if it was offered. HE doesn't need help afterall. It is me who is delusional.

Take out the part about respect (I've always been a helluva nice guy to everybody but W), substitute "rarely" for "not" in the sentence about requesting help, and that was me.

My H's actions in the past are practically proof that I have not been first in his life.

On my last thread for example, I had several posts on pornography. H apparently has a "thing" for it and I find it incredibly disrespectful and think he is quite frankly betraying me by doing whatever it is he does. We've had several conversations on the topic and even more arguments. But recently I said "you've never given a resolution on the pornography issue, never said whether or not you intend to stop". ... To me, there's no two ways to look at that. He simply doesn't care how I feel.

Wow. Just wow. W could have written that. Probably has in a journal somewhere. There were times I tried to stop, at her request. I probably made it six months to a year once or twice. But in truth I never saw a real need to stop. It was what I liked, it wasn't hurting W any, it was just prudery on her part that made her not accept it. I even tried to get her involved, and she tried at least a little bit. But she's said several times, including recently, how bad it made her feel about herself, her attractiveness and her sexuality (though that was one thing I was always full of complements about) that I wouldn't stop. All that is obvious to me now. It wasn't then. I mean, I still loved having sex with her, and she was obviously attractive whether I told her she was or not, so why should she care? The concept that you do things for your spouse just because they want you to, and because you want to show them that what they want is important to you, has only recently penetrated my brick skull. Ironically I've quit the porn cold turkey, now that she's "gone". A book called Wild at Heart really hit home to me on several fronts. It's one guy's perspective on what it means to be a Christian man and it reawakened a lot of spirituality in me to realize I didn't have to become a milk-toast weenie in order to reconnect with faith. There's very little in that book about porn, but at one point he says that pornography is having a woman without having to be a man. That really resonated with me and I haven't looked back. I wouldn't have believed that possible five months ago.

Another thing that's helped on that front as well as many others is the realization that you don't have to indulge in everything you want to try in order to live a complete and satisfying life. I guess that's a bit of growing up I needed to do a long time ago but I'm glad I finally got around to it. I guess my point in all this is that I believe there's more in your husband than he's showing. He does have an awful lot of growing to do before he'll be good for you. And right now I can't think of any good way to pull it out of him short of what finally pulled it out of me. I'd love to see it happen, though. I'll tuck it away in the subconscious and see if any ideas eventually bubble up.

But for now my only advice to you is the same advice you'd get anywhere on this board. Make the changes you need to make for you. Either he'll come around or he won't but you don't have to be tied to his level. At some point in the future, maybe you can get him to honestly look at whether he wants to lose you forever, or if maybe it would be worth while to learn how to keep you. It's not that hard, and I've found it actually feels better than defending selfish interests all the time. I'll hope and pray for that for him.

Meanwhile, good luck! And be good to yourself.

[heatherg]

Put down the "After The Affair" book and start reading the "Emotionally Abusive" book.

Ok. I'll start it tonight.

nothing you do will ever be good enough

I'm somewhat prepared for that outcome. One of the questions he asks me from time to time is what I have done, "what have you done to make things better? If you tried one tenth of what you think you have....". So last time he asked me that I said "I haven't called you any names when we've argued, when is the last time you can remember that I called you a name?" He said "I don't know, probably last night, who cares anyway, when have I EVER said that was a problem, that is so stupid". I said "I think it's disrespectful". He said "Well I don't, I've never said I had an issue with it, so why are you wasting your time with something so stupid?" These aren't exact words, I don't remember, but it's the best I can remember. In the past H has said that I have hated him for years and there were times, over the alcohol issue, when I would tell him he was pathetic, a loser, disgusting, I would look at him with disdain. I can see where that would have made him feel unloved or even hated. Calling someone names is never ok, so I vowed to try really hard to stop doing that. I told H "ok, well then the change was for me b/c I think it's disprespectful". He said "that's right, it's for you. Everything you do is for you. So don't act like you are trying so hard for me."
ARGH. So, yes, I am prepared for a final outcome where nothing I do will be good enough. But I'll sure feel better about the person I am either way.

also think that going to a MC might work, just because they'll pick up on H and know he'll need IC, though I also think, given the nature of the beast, H will likely refuse to see a MC, because he doesn't want to give up what he perceives is control over himself to another party.

Yeah, he is 100% closed to the idea of going to a counselor. Who knows the reason, but you're probably right. I can't think of any good reasons, so whatever his reason is, it's certainly self serving. Not wanting to change is probably it, my C thinks so as well.

you're only headed right back to the very things that made you unhappy and will make you dissatisfied again.

I know. But I'll be smarter this time and more aware of the devastation my crappy decisions can wreak. In general, I am happy. I have great kids and a great family when we are out and about, which is most of the time. But there are undercurrents that won't go away. I'm very aware of it. I'm finding that I'm embarrassed, which is something I didn't know before because I kept a lot private, as it should be it most marriages. But once I started writing about it and talking about it, I'm finding that I'm very embarrassed. Things I thought were normal aren't. My behavior is more skewed that I knew before I came here. You mean people don't yell and scream? No, it turns out they don't. You mean people's spouses listen when they talk and don't walk away or roll their eyes? Yes, it turns out other spouses listen. Better yet, they care.

I really have made progress, hope I'm not the only person who thinks so

Now, I'm off to a baseball game, yippee!! A day off with some project managers who invited me to the skybox. Yey. Good for my career, good for me. And I get to play hooky.

Thanks!
Heather

[heatherg]

Regarding pornography:

I even tried to get her involved, and she tried at least a little bit.

Interestingly enough, during the week I was staying at my brother's, when H kicked me out, he called me home one night to talk. He felt the need to tell me that he likes to look at beautiful women. I don't have any idea what his motive was, given the horrible state of our M. But he said that if we were going to try to start over, he wanted to try to start out on a different note, maybe a more sexual one. (Remember the firs few weeks I did get genuine emotion from H). I didn't take his statements too well. Asked him why the he!! he felt the need to tell me that and said that some things were better left unsaid, and him liking to look at beautiful women was one of them. I said "And that makes you different from the rest of the male population...how?" He was surprised by that answer for some reason as though he thought be was unique. Ironically though, now as justification not to stop, he tells me all men do it and I'd be hard pressed to find a guy who doesn't. But anyway, I guess this was H's attempt to get me involved. But the timing was hosed and his words horribly thought out. I'm not a prude I don't think. We've watched videos, read books, looked at magazines. I don't have a problem with all pornography...at all. I've suggested some stuff that I'd like which of course he's not into.
The problem with pornography for me came in when I started finding stuff on the computer. It's really heartwrenching for me to not be snooping, just messing around on my computer and come across remnants of how H has been spending his time while I am asleep. And as I confronted him each time, he got better at hiding it although I didn't realize it. I guess I would just think it stopped. But I later discovered he learned how to cover his tracks after me "giving away" each time how I came across my evidence. After the A, I really did start to snoop b/c I really wondered how honest he had always been with me. Here he was acting like I was the worst person in the world. I was curious to know how trustworthy he himself had been. I found pictures on his laptop going back to 2001. His favorites? Do you have any idea how that made me feel? I started recording his internet activity and was not happy with what I found.
So, here I am. I think I'm beautiful, fit, fun, intelligent. My H would rather jack off to a picture. This had a lot to do with my becoming vulnerable to the attention of other guys. Other guys look at me like I'm that picture. I wanted that.

So, it's not even so much the pictures. It's finding out how important it is. I kissed another man. But all I ever wanted was H. My H flat out told me that I'm not enough. Many people hold out that pornography isn't cheating. But what about the thoughts that go through his mind? He's not thinking about the Lions crappy game while he's getting off. Is that NOT cheating?? To me, it feels like it is b/c it ain't me giving him that BJ he's thinking about. I really do have strong feelings on the issue as I'm sure you can tell.

I still loved having sex with her, and she was obviously attractive whether I told her she was or not, so why should she care? [/quote

My H loves having sex with me as well. We've never had any quality issues although he has expressed some quantity issues, "we only do it when you want". I know I'm attractive and most women are jealous of my body. Apparently it just isn't enough. I told my H to be careful, someday he might find my picture on one of those amatuer sites.... He didn't like that comment so well. Imagine that.

[heatherg]

Our anniversary was yesterday. The day came and went without any acknowledgement from H. I spoke to him last night, we were friendly. At one point he said he was outside b/c the crew was invited to dinner at on the guys' apartments whose wife is there and she made dinner. I said "Oh, ok well I'll let you go", he said "no, it's fine, that's not what I meant". Positive.

I started reading the Emotionally Abusive Relationship. I got through the Intro and the first chapter. At first read, I find it difficult to answer the questions with any level of certainty about what H does or doesn't do. For instance, does he give the silent treatment when he doesn't get his way.....yes, but that doesn't happen very often and I've never thought about it as him not getting his way. I've always thought about it as him ignoring me after we fight, which always made me feel more like it was my fault, something he was doing *to* me as a result of the fight or something that was said during the fight, which always brought me back to the idea that the reason he was ignoring me was my fault. I shouldn't have lost my temper. I shouldn't have picked a fight. Blah, blah. Does it happen not very often because he usually gets his way or is it just a thing he does now and then? The author says we are guilty of using emotionally abusive tactics now and then, doesn't make it right and we should strive to change it, but it doesn't necessarily characterize the person as an abuser.

The author also said that most abusers don't have a clue what they are doing to their partner and that usually they do not do it on purpose, it's usually a result of having been abused themself as a child. This is where I think H already differs from the type of person the author is talking about. I think his actions are VERY well thought out for the most part. My H is very analytical (one of the things I admired about him when I met him) and has always been a "gamer", which requires thinking things through from every angle, a great imagination. I feel like in the big picture, the things he does are in fact calculated. Even the instances where he acts in the heat of the moment, like putting his hands on me are just a means to an end, with the end being to show me that I cannot win. If I am shown I cannot win, I will stop trying. I could be so full of it, so far off base, but this is my perspective.

That's were I am so far. Struggling to see that I am being abused or that I am abusing. That word has SUCH negative connotations.

[Burgbud]

His favorites? Do you have any idea how that made me feel?

I have a very clear idea how that made you feel. Five months ago I would not have understood. I'll try to explain further in a bit.

So, here I am. I think I'm beautiful, fit, fun, intelligent. My H would rather jack off to a picture.

No, he wouldn't. I can assure you of this with 99% confidence. He doesn't see it as an "either/or", so it's not "rather" one than the other.

So, it's not even so much the pictures. It's finding out how important it is.

I have heard these exact words. Feel free to let me know when you want me to quit saying that.

As far as whether or not it's cheating, all I'll say is that to him it's not cheating. It's not cheating because there's not another person involved. It's not cheating because, at least in his mind, it doesn't affect his relationship with you at all. It's not cheating because there's no emotional component. I'm not asking you here to agree with any of this. I'm saying this is his mindset and it's not just making excuses for him because it was also my mindset.

I really do have strong feelings on the issue as I'm sure you can tell.

I don't blame you at all. Although I'd already realized where I needed to be on this issue (and many other issues where her wants/needs conflicted with my wants) with regard to my own W, it has been very enlightening for me to read about someone else who looks at it exactly the same way she does. If for no other reason than to see that the way she personalized it is not unique to her.

Let me now throw out a few things I suspect about H based on his many similarities to me. Consider whether or not you think this fits him. It would be nice if you could ask him directly but he probably hasn't really thought about things like this so he probably won't know himself.

Sex and erotica are very important to H. He's curious about his reactions to different sexual stimulus which is why he keeps track of his favorites. He probably wonders why some things are more stimulating than other, similar things. That's one of the reasons he thinks he's unique; he's not just reading dirty magazines and getting off. He's *into* it, he observes his own reactions and wonders about them. He knows you stimulate him more than any of the porn, so he doesn't see any of it as a threat to you. He *knows* you have no reason to be threatened so he sees your objections as a silly overreaction, and why should he give up something he enjoys so much for no good reason?

Take all that along with his reaction to your kiss and his almost desperate controlling and monitoring of you and I would almost guarantee that you are what defines him as a man. Sex is very important to him and he has a beautiful, sexy, real live woman who has sex with *him*. I would guess that your sexual pleasure is very important to him. He's probably much more considerate of you in this area of your R than any other, though you may feel his consideration still has more to do with him than with you.

One of the reasons he's so controlling and seems to want you under his thumb is because he's incredibly insecure about losing you. After all, if he loses you he's no longer a man. He's some pathetic loser. He doesn't realize any of this but it's why he gets so incredibly anxious when he considers he might truly lose you. He hates that and so he pushes it completely out of his mind. That makes him feel better but also reduces the odds he'll actually see the need to change. Likely he believes, maybe subconsciously, that keeping you happy in bed is his best chance of keeping you. So if he loses you not only is he not a man he's not even a satisfactory lover. He gets jealous when you act independently because if you're enjoying attention from other men, maybe it's because you're starting to get dissatisfied with his bedroom performance. I'd be willing to bet that not only does he look at a lot of porn, he also reads or has read dozens of magazine articles and possibly even books on "How to please your woman", "How to have the sex she'll never forget", "1001 positions that will drive your woman crazy with passion", etc.

But, no surprise, that's not healthy. For you or especially for him. Staking so much of your ego, your very belief in your own manhood, on your wife leads to obsession (even if it's only mild), jealousy, compulsion and anxiety. All the porn is a symptom of the compulsion and a general lack of emotional balance in his life. Even if he feels calm most of the time, because he's able to put it out of his mind, his interactions with you will get more and more destructive and/or neglectful. And eventually, you *will* leave him. Deep down he knows that the stronger you are the greater the possibility you'll leave. It's not that he doesn't want you to be strong; it's that he wants you to stay. But that's still an untenable situation.

How does he have to change to make this work? First and most important he has to base his manhood on something other than you. There are lots of books on masculinity out there, some based on western or eastern religion, some entirely secular. Many of them would be very enlightening to him, would make him feel much better about himself, and might well start him down a stronger road that you will both enjoy much more than the road he's on now.

He also has to realize he has to be attractive to you AS A TOTAL MAN to keep you in his life. No matter how great his sexual attractiveness may be it will not be enough, particularly if his obsession about it degrades his attractiveness in other areas. There's a little bit of DB'ing in that idea; we want to make changes and be happy with ourselves in order to attract our spouses back into a R. He has to do the same thing. But it's very scary. I couldn't do it until I had no other choice. But then I could, so it *is* possible. If I can do it now I could have done it then. I was just too scared to let go of what I thought was my best technique of keeping my wife. Heh, I just realized I wanted "techniques" to keep my wife and make her happy because I was afraid who I was wasn't good enough, and I didn't know if I could make myself good enough. I didn't want to have to change because I wanted to be accepted as I was. But I was unwilling to take a hard look at myself and see if "as I was" was really acceptable. It's kind of a vicious cycle. I think the only way to break out of it is to realize you want to change for yourself and not for your spouse. Then if you're still not acceptable to them, your self-acceptance will make it easier to live with yourself and move on to another person if that's what you want.

Okay, I'm just rambling now.

Oh, but the other thing he has to change is to realize that he doesn't have to indulge all his sexual desires to have a fulfilling sex life. There are limitless loving and/or sexual options he can explore just with you. And his creative juices might really get flowing in those areas if he stops or cuts waaay back on the porn. And at any rate having some unfulfilled fantasies, having a little sexual tension in one's life is better and healthier than being in a state of maximum indulgence.

What might bring about these changes? I can tell you what worked for me though you already know that. I can't tell you what might work for him. Print this out and let him read it if you think it will help. Edit as you see fit. If you think it will do more harm than good or if the timing isn't right than definitely don't. See if there's any way you can convince him that if he lives his life to his true potential, you'll be so completely happy and his that he'll know he doesn't have to worry about you. If I come up with anything more concrete I'll let you know...

Good luck!

[heatherg]

He doesn't see it as an "either/or", so it's not "rather" one than the other.

Lucky him, huh? It seems that many of the WAS's don't see their situations as an "either/or" either. How convenient for him and for them.

As far as whether or not it's cheating, all I'll say is that to him it's not cheating. It's not cheating because there's not another person involved. It's not cheating because, at least in his mind, it doesn't affect his relationship with you at all. It's not cheating because there's no emotional component.

I always get so pi$$ed that he can justify everything like this. These could be his words. When you justify everything you do, everything is just so convenient!! It's a good thing for H that I feel that kissing is cheating. Because I assure you no more emotional component there than what you describe with H testing his reactions to different things. I just want to shake him and say "What if I didn't think kissing was cheating???!! Would you let me get away with just explaining it away? Telling you that you're feelings are silly because they aren't the same as mine???"
ARGH. He's infuriating. The injustice of it sets me on fire. I pay consequences EVERY SINGLE day for hurting him. And he doesn't even acknowledge that he's hurt me as well, much less pay a consequence for it.

I would guess that your sexual pleasure is very important to him.

You're right on with this. I aways come first in the bedroom...I totally did not mean it like that but it's actually true and fitting so I'll leave it.

Do you think it would be helpful to reflect on what makes him feel like a man? Is this something I can help him do without him even realizing it or does it have to be his sought out journey?
It seems many men feel like "men" when they are needed. But I can tell you asking him to do things for me is NOT something that seems to make him happy. There are no such things as "honey-do" lists at my house. He used to do even less than he does now (hmm improvement, I'll have to come back to that later) and for me to ask him to do anything makes him feel like LESS than a man because he feels like I am ordering him around. I mean, even if I just ask, he knows it's ultimately expected. Can you really say no without being an a$$ when W asks you to take out the garbage, lol?? So, me asking anything from him doesn't make him feel needed, it makes him feel controlled and less of a man. Wow, thanks Bud, whether you know it or not, those last couple statements are a real revelation.
It seems he knows he has to carry some weight around the house so he has created schedules for himself so he will always know what's expected of him, they are his schedules and not mine so he never has to feel like he's being told what to do. Mondays he drinks. Tuesdays we go to dinner and to the mall or toy store. Wednesdays he mows the lawn or does something else with the house that he wants to do. Thursdays are up for grabs. Fridays he drinks. The weekends are usually spent going places as a family or if we are at all social, it is with his family. That's our life and H has created it and he is happy with it. This is really enlightening to me.....

It's not that he doesn't want you to be strong

I'm not 100% sure of this. It's more that he knows he can't stop me from being strong even if he wanted to. I've accomplished a lot in my life, at least by my standards, and I truly think he's somewhat resentful. My siblings are all successful in their lives as well and H has mentioned that we all have some motivational drive that makes us all accomplish what we set out to do. This could be a genuine compliment. But then a few weeks back we were talking about me wanting to be "that girl" for him that he looks at porn for. I told him I'd love to go out, dress sexy for him. We don't ever go anywhere and it's pretty tacky to dress sexy when you go to the mall, toting your two babies around, lol. So instead of saying we could try going out now and then or something else supportive, he said "I'm sure you'll figure out a way, you can do anything right?". JERK. I'm telling you I want to be your fantasy and that I'm willing to listen and really get into it and you tell me to figure it out on my own......WHY am I still with this guy??? How many H's out there would love to hear those words from their W? And I meant them, they weren't just words to try to please him...pleasing him would please me. Isn't that ideal??

if there's any way you can convince him that if he lives his life to his true potential, you'll be so completely happy and his that he'll know he doesn't have to worry about you.

That's the thing-he thought he had that security that he never had to worry about me (I thought he had it too, I never would have guessed this would have happened). Now that he thinks he knows he does, he'll never let himself believe he doesn't have to worry about me. He would think to himself "I didn't think I had to worry about her before and look what happened". I blew it, I really believe that. Plus, he doesn't care how to make me happy. If he really cared so much about losing me, wouldn't he care how to make me happy?
It seems what he wants is to be his "own man", do what he wants and be loved and appreciated for it even if he's a porn loving drunk. Geez, what girl wouldn't want that, right? I'm so delusional.