Trying to find MY way to happiness

[dodgermf]

I feel like such a failure. I couldn't keep my H happy or my M together. Geez, I guess I'm just feeling really sorry for myself.

May I be frank? (Frank might have a problem with that), Seriously JV,

I've been following your story for months now and let me tell you, YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE! Now I know you still love your husband so I hope I don't piss you off but, looking from 400 miles to the south, he's the failure. I can't believe the way he has treated you over the past few months. A failure?, hell you're a SAINT for putting up the fight this long.

Hey, if it all works out down the road and you are happy, fantastic. But JV, someone like you deserves better. Again, maybe it's anti-DB talk but actually, isn't DBing ultimately done to make yourself a better person? If the wayward spouse sees it, that is gravy.

JV, I've got to say that I've seen the events of this day coming for a while and I ain't sh** but I think it just might be for the best.

You're stronger than you think JV!! Now go turn Leno on, you need a smile!!

DMF

[cally]

JV I do personally feel it was mistake to bring up the relationship to your husband. I say that because i feel he is in a bad place right now. I also think he has not had enough time away from you to realize what he is missing. I guess by that I mean it doesn't feel like a separation much to him. He still calls you whenever he feels like. He sees you almost nearly everyday. He sees the kiddos a lot. He is not on any routine where he comes by say every friday and saturday he gets the kid's. He picks them up and drops them off and leaves. In stead he hangs around and plays on the computer or comes over whenever he wants. He seems to call very often.

I guess I am trying to say don't give up just yet. He may just be very lost still. BUT the way he has been treating you is terrible. You don't deserve to be treated like that or talked to the way he does.

For right now JV try real hard not to think about him. Be selfish and only think about you right now. But and this is just my opinion..I think you should distance yourself right now from him. Don't allow that contact between you. Simply don't answer the phone. Or tell him to let you know when he wants to stop by so you can be gone. Is it possible for you to take the kid's and go away for a week for a vacation before school starts. And when he has the kid's go out and enjoy yourself. Create some mystery for him to wonder about. You seems to getting a lot of interest from him when it appeared you were moving on and enjoying yourself.

And one more piece of advice don;t let him talk you into a quick divorce. Get yourself a lawyer if he keeps talking about it. Because you are entitled to 1/2 of everything you have.Including all that money he keeps from you in his own separate account. Mybe you ought to at least check into your rights and get this separation done legally. What if he just decided to be ugly and stop putting any money in your account. Or worse hides the money he has because he is anticipating a divorce.

JV do continue to post here. We would worry about you if you stopped. I would continue to post here in piecing. You may have hit a rough patch. But deep down you are still trying.

[ValerieA]

Thank you so very much, Kim, D, and cally.

I know it was wrong and bad to get into that R talk. H initiated it, but when he appeared to not know how to start and just get it out, well...that was when the impatient part of me gave him a "push".

I know I'm not a failure, but it just feels that way. This was my dream -- to be M, have children, and spend the rest of my life with my H. It was a dream I lived for 8 years....now I'm awake....and I have to face reality.

How do I get H to miss me again? You see, it seemed a lot easier to get H to wonder about me and realize that he didn't want to lose me when he was away on the road. Now that he's not traveling anymore, and he's always calling everyday and seeing the kids whenever he wants, how can he miss me? How can he wonder?

My family says I need to set a visitation schedule with him. I agree to an extent, but....well....he IS their father and he should be able to see them whenever he wants. Then again, I feel like if I put a limit on how often he can see them (which also would mean how much he sees me) then he might just realize what he will be missing....because right now, I don't think he can possibly feel that. Like I said, H calls at least once everyday, and he has the kids at least 3 times a week. I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm thinking of "using" the boys in some sort of manipulative way -- I AM NOT even thinking like that. All I'm saying is with all the contact that's still going on, I don't see how H could possibly miss me, the kids, the R, whatever. And here's another thing -- if H calls the house and I don't answer, then my cellphone rings immediately. If I don't answer that or call back within 15 minutes, then, seriously now, H will just come over and walk in unannounced. So, yes, I try not to answer or respond to every call, but if I don't, he just comes over. How am I to deal with that? Where is my space? Where is HIS space that he wanted sooo badly in that?

(Sigh).....H called again last night after I posted...a few times, and even after 2am (but I didn't answer that call). Just more of him saying that he doesn't want to move back in because what if things don't improve. H said, "If I move back home, and things are still bad, and then I move out again, well...then you're really going to hate me."

I told H for the 100th time that I will not hate him. EVER!!! Then he said, "I don't understand how you can even want me back. After all the s**t I've said and done to you. I just don't get it."

Sometimes....I wonder if he's lost some respect for me. Does he think less of me because I've chosen to "make nice" and keep my mouth shut about everything he's said and done? Because in the past I once said that if he ever did anything like this to me, I'd leave him in a heartbeat? That I wouldn't put up with anything like this? And now....here I am....doing what I said I would never do....living like I said I would never live.

For now, I'm going to consider some type of visitation schedule....because it's just too hard to detach and prepare myself for what's coming when H is around all the time.

I'm also trying to get myself pumped up for Girls' Weekend. I don't want to be the party-pooper .

Thanks for listening.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[Hopeful_Future]

"If I move back home, and things are still bad, and then I move out again, well...then you're really going to hate me."

Listen to this. Really listen to it. He's telling something here. Before my XH and I got back together (living together) he made the same statement. I dismissed it and said "look how great things are right now, how could they turn bad again". I wish I had listened. Now instead I hear "I'm scared this isn't real. That it's not going to last and it's going to be bad again." Now I have my XH back and he has almost nothing to do with me. So really think that one over. Just my thoughts...

[ValerieA]

"If I move back home, and things are still bad, and then I move out again, well...then you're really going to hate me."

Listen to this. Really listen to it. He's telling something here.

---

I think he's telling me that he will move back if that's what I want but he will not be around much. He said that. Looks like I left some info out -- that tends to happen when the kids are running around making noise -- being kids !

H said, "I'll move back in tonight if that's what you want. I want to do whatever's going to make you happy...But I'll be out playing cards 24 hours a day...because I don't want to be there."

How do I take that? It's like he's saying, "Yeah, ok, I'll come home and we'll be together for the rest of our lives because I know that will make YOU happy, JV. I'll never open my mouth and say another word....BUT I'm letting you know that I DO NOT want to be there."

If H were to move in then move out again, he says I will really hate him. Hmmm.....maybe he feels this way because of how I used to get upset and angry when he wouldn't spend any time with me, and even moreso when he would return from his 2 week long business trips. H would be gone for all that time, and I guess I expected QT with him and I expected him to want it, too, when he got back. When that wouldn't happen, yes. I became angry and bitter with him. So I suppose H felt I hated him for that. I never hated him though. I was just angry, hurt, disappointed, and I felt rejected.

I guess you could say I pouted . I never thought this about myself until very recently....but I think I've had a sort of "princess" mentality. My H has always wanted to pamper me. I NEVER expected that from him; I still don't, but perhaps I've developed this frame of mind because I've been so used to getting what I want or having something done my way.

I'm not proud of this at all. I don't know what else to say. It's as if I just became accustomed to this treatment because H always, ALWAYS, said that's what he wanted to do for me...because I deserve it all. I don't feel the same way and never have, but I just went with it because I knew it made H feel good to do for me.

And now that he's done all he said he wanted to do for me, well....now he resents me for it. H told me soooo many times that he didn't want me to work. He wanted me to stay home with the kids. He wanted to buy me this house, my truck, this, that, etc....and now....it's almost like he feels I'm "high maintenance". I would GLADLY give everything up to have my old H back. The one who made me feel so special to him. The one who always said I was his soul mate and he never wanted to be without me. Never.

Gotta go for now. Thanks again for listening.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[ValerieA]

Journaling:

H stopped by today...unannounced again...because I didn't answer or return his phone call...again.

You know....I'm not even trying anymore. I feel like, "what for?" H might be very sick and confused, but how can he not know or understand what he's saying and doing to me? To us? To this M? To our family?

He came over. For what? I dunno. He just sat in the living room chair, said hi to S9 and S5, and played with the baby a little. Nothing more. Said he would be here in the morning to get the boys, said he was sorry again, and left. I'm so tired of hearing his apologies. I know he feels the need to say it, and I'm sure he means it, but everytime I hear those two words, it hurts like he**. It almost means nothing to me anymore.

I have to be at my sister J's by 3pm tomorrow -- playing it safe and smart because of the weekend traffic . S9 and S5 will be with H for the weekend while the baby will be with my parents. I made those arrangements to lessen the possible chance of H calling me over the weekend to vent about the baby's fussing , but my mom told me today that she nor my stepdad will be home until after 3:30pm, and J lives about 45 minutes away. So after H left, I called to see if he wouldn't mind watching the baby until one of my parents got home from work. H said that was fine, and I thanked him.

So....I feel as if I should just move on with my life. Last night, H said he still loves and cares about me, but he does not want to come back. He will but he won't.

I HAVE been doing things to keep myself preoccupied and planning GAL stuff, but the feeling of loss is still there -- just a very empty feeling. It's nearly impossible to ignore no matter how hard I try.

I'm just venting, I guess. I'm hurt, and I'm beginning to feel angry. Bitter. How could the man who promised to love and cherish me do this? How can he walk away after all these years? Yuck ....I'm sure I could go on and on.

I feel like I should try to convince myself that this is all for the best. That he really is an a** for what he's done, and he has truly lost something very precious.

I've thought to myself many times during these last few months that I can't believe I'm trying to stay in this M with such a person. With someone who has fed me lie after lie after lie. With someone who has said so many horrible things to me....he is truly troubled.

Maybe we were only together due to an abandonment issue. H's father abandoned his family when H was young...and when I tried to walk away in the very beginning, H was clingy and begged me to stay. Maybe he's right. Maybe H never had "real" feelings for me at all; he was just afraid to be alone.

I don't know if I'm making any kind of sense at all . I'm just rambling. Too much going on with my head and my heart.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[OCKim]

(((((JV)))))...

Thank you for taking the time to respond on my thread tonight. I was happy to hear that you felt my post was both insightful and inspirational.
What a nice compliment... THANK YOU!

I am sorry that you continue to struggle with your sitch.
Not too long ago, I read an analogy of a butterfly -vs-
a WAS... I want to share it with you...
"THE MORE YOU CHASE AFTER THEM, THEY FLY AWAY...
BUT, IF YOU SIT QUIETLY, THERE IS A CHANCE THEY MAY COME TO REST SOFTLY ON YOUR SHOULDER"...

In order to get your H's attention, you need to change your behavior. It seems that you have been talking about your feelings alot lately with him... Try to stop talking about them COMPLETELY.
IMHO, in order to make your H react differently, you have to do something completely out of the ordinary.
Try to not ask anymore questions, make him wonder about YOU, become less accessible and predictable.
JV... IF you want your H to be more communicative and to openly express his feelings with you, especially about your problems in your marriage and why he is so unhappy, then you need to remember that pressuring him will lead him to withdraw even more. The more you pursue, the more he will continue to withdraw.
Something that you can do differently that will really surprise your H is to STOP TALKING ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP/MARRIAGE COMPLETELY!!!
Let your H have the opportunity to notice that you are not trying to "fix" things anymore with your marriage.
If you are in fact eager to hold your marriage together, try hard not to engage in any kind of behavior that will inevitably push your H farther away. (ie: do not pursue, beg, reason, etc.)... B/c IF your husband REALLY wants out of the marriage, he will most likely get fed up with the pressure and then insist your marriage is over.
I think that it is human nature to want to escape when someone is feeling pressured.
In trying to get your H to move back home (which he may see as you "chasing" him), it takes the focus off of your marriage and puts the spotlight onto YOU.
This will most likely lead to your H getting annoyed with you and your persistence robs your H of the opportunty to reflect on what is happening in your lives right now.
If that happens, his anger will be the only emotion he will feel and your persistence will prevent him from having any feelings of sadness, guilt, or remorse, or any other emotions that would help you.
IMHO... you need to stop supplying him with a reason to leave your marriage.
JV... IF your goal is to be able to get your H to reconsider his decision to divorce and begin working on your marriage, then I believe you need to stop chasing him and act "AS IF" you are going on with your life.
Stop doing ANYTHING that your H might look at as "pursuing" behavior... (ie: no more phone calls, trying to get him to reconsider, asking for reassurances, etc.)...

JV... Believe me, I know this is all VERY hard and quite painful. I do know how you are feeling and what you are going through. I wish that I had a "magic wand" and could take this pain away from you.
Perhaps there is some comfort in knowing that there are people out there who do care about your happiness.
Take good care of yourself and hang in there, JV!
Talk w/ you soon! -KIM

[cally]

Good advice Kim!!

I agree JV. I know this may be hard! You have spent years and years your husband as well as you doing these same behaviors. You both chase one another. You both get angry and bitter. I think he does waaaaay more then you. But JV I don't say this to be mean but you do seem like a push over. I really hope that won't offend you to much. But you let him walk all over you. He is use to this behavior and maybe has grown to not respect you very much because you don't seem like you respect yourself either. You put up with his nonsense and his hurtful words. Even now he has no respect for you and just shows up when he wants. He calls when he wants. He wants a separation and to have his fun........and this is my opinion........as long as he can control it and make sure you are not moving on. That is key .....as long as you don't show signs of moving on. So he calls and you don't answer...he freaks. Starts thinking who is she with and what is she doing. Well, damn that is none of his business right now. If he wants space and seems to think he doesn't want this marriage then give him just that. Lay down some groud rules and be forceful. If you lay down a rule and then let him walk all over it even once that opens the door for his control. Create the distance JV. Changing your attitude like Kim said is key also. Be different not the same old JV who waits around for his calls. Let him know about a visitation schedule. And let him know you don't want him coming by unannounced. That you are busy and may have friends over and that you need your space right now. Tell him you are trying to move on and you can't do that with his constant presense there.

JV do things you wouldn't normally do. Go out with the kid's and be gone all day. You don't owe it to him to answer his every call or tell him where you are going every day. Honestly you don't! You have every right to go away for the weekend, lets say and go on a mini vacation with the kid's. You don't have to tell him your plans all the time. It sounds like you are very fair with allowing him time with the kid's. School will be starting again soon and they will need to be on a schedule anyway.

JV maybe when the kid's go back to school you could even find a part time job. Something anything out of the ordinary. With the way your husband is I think he would be scared if you got a job. Because you may meet someone and move out. See I think deep down he doesn't want this and loves you very much. He just has a good thing right now. He knows he can be without you and still control you. So in a sense he is living the good single life but in his mind he is controlling you therefore you won't ever move on. You are an ear to vent to, to piss and moan about everything that annoys him. His home is still his to come to whenever he wants.

JV can't you see why he comes flying over there when you won't answer. Becayse deep down he is worried and not secure at all. Right now you need to use to your advantage. Show him you are moving on and that you are okay with it. You could maybe say this so he knows you do at least still have love........
H I love you very much. I think I always will. But I can see your not happy. You have stated you feel we should divorce. So I have realized I can't change what you feel. I have been hurt and I feel I need to put a lot of distance bewteen us right now. I need to start moving on with my life right now. I know happiness may be out there for me someday. But I will never be able to find it if I keep hurting and facing the hurt everyday. I need to learn to move on without you in my life. So for right can we please put some distance. I don't like you walking in here unannounced whenever you want. I would like for you to give me the key. Also to call if you want to come over. If I don't answer I must be busy. I think we need to set up a visitation schedule. That way when the kid's go back to school they can have some sort of a routine. I will also know which days I can make plans on.


And a big key JV when he has the kid's only let him call you for an emeergency. Tell him you will call the kid's once to see how they are or tell them goodnight or however you do it. When he has the kid's and he calls so much I guarantee he wants to make sure you aren't doing anything or with anyone. DO NOT let him know who you are with or what you are doing. Create mystery and let him think. That way he can envision what it would be like if he let you go and someone out there could be holding you or loving you or courting you. Let him wonder and create mystery.

I know some of tehse things you have been told. But you never seem to follow through or end up reassuring him. Being controlled is a hard thing to breal I know. But you are a strong woman. Your husbands words are just words I think JV. Dpeep down this man loves you. If he didn't he wouldn't do some of the things he does. Be strong for once and show him what it will be like without you. Don't back down or give in.

[ValerieA]

Hi, Kim and cally, and thanks for your help and support. Really...thank you.

I don't have much time right now. I'm trying to get the kids' things together. I'll be dropping them off at H's place in less than an hour. Then it'll be time for a very much needed manicure and pedicure !

Kim, I hear you loud and clear about NO R TALKS and expressing my feelings and emotions to H. We just had that one R talk that H initiated, and I "released" toooooo much . I know better than that.

When I read your thread a couple of nights ago and last night, I thought, "Hmmm....maybe I'm showing my hurt to H. Maybe I'm masking it, too, in some other way, and I don't know that I'm doing it." Because, honestly, I really haven't said much about the R to him (with the exception of the other day). I try to act as if I'm ok and fine with everything, but perhaps I'm not doing a very good job at it . When I think about it,....well....it's still very difficult to look H in the eyes for longer than a few seconds when we interact.....this is probably the problem. I'm sure he notices....and this is probably why he feels I hate him.

cally, I will think more about the visitation schedule. I do feel like it needs to happen so I can detach much more, but I am a bit afraid of what H's reaction might be seeing that I told him many times before that he could have the kids whenever he wanted them....and now if I do this, then I'd feel like I was going back on that....Ugh -- it's all very confusing and complicated.

The only thing I have to really disagree with you about, cally, is the job issue. H would LOVE for me to work (even though he always said in the past he didn't want me to). Let me tell you one undisputed fact about my H -- he is all about money, bringing it in, and holding onto it for as long as he possibly can. I hate to say it, but I also respect him for it, but H is a serious tightwad -- yet he can play cards and risk it, but he doesn't see it that way. He's a great player, and he sees this as making money...and he does. I think he has just built up so much resentment towards me for not working....so all his hard-earned cash is being used on me, the kids, the house, the car, etc.

Bleck !! Enough of that already!

Gotta get ready to take the kids over to H soon, and then it's off to J's for the weekend !

I hope everyone has a terrific one!

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[slowly]

Hi JV - It certainly seems like an uphill struggle somedays, doesn't it? However, I see so many positives, especially in the way you are able to contain the impact of H's actions on your feelings. I feel though, there is a big elephant in your sitting room that you need to think about tackling, maybe not immediately, but sometime soon.

H would LOVE for me to work (even though he always said in the past he didn't want me to). Let me tell you one undisputed fact about my H -- he is all about money, bringing it in, and holding onto it for as long as he possibly can. I hate to say it, but I also respect him for it, but H is a serious tightwad -- yet he can play cards and risk it, but he doesn't see it that way. He's a great player, and he sees this as making money...and he does. I think he has just built up so much resentment towards me for not working....so all his hard-earned cash is being used on me, the kids, the house, the car, etc.

This can potentially colour all the other interactions and positives that you are building. How has he expressed this unhappiness - in words, deeds, implications? It just feels like a big one

In the meantime, no point dwelling on something that will not get fixed this weekend, so here's hoping you have a fabulous one

Slowly