for what it is worth, I think you have done a remarkable job. I think you have been patient, kind, forgiving, yielding, sexy, funny, giving, understanding, etc. You have done it all. I don't think any of this is that you need to be doing something different....because it isn't about you! It is about him! As long as you are being a strong, indedpendent, sexy, confident women with lots of things going on in her busy life, then there is nothing more for you to do! I would cease all conversations regarding OW. Let her become a non-entity. Then get on with your life. I bet your H would be very attracted to a smart, funny, lively, sexy, CONFIDENT woman who doesn't need to discuss OW because who in their right mind would choose Her over you, anyway????????? It's all in the attitude, Deb. That is when my H came back 100%. Wear a rubberband around your wrist and snap it when you have the urge to grill H about that pesky OW. It only keeps her in the forefront of his brain. STOP. I know for some reason he gets a kick out of discussing her with you, but I would tell him that you simply don't want her to be a part of your conversations anymore, and THEN CHANGE THE SUBJECT....I would also refrain from the constant temperature checks, it makes you look needy. STOP, DEB!How about next time H says "relax" say "whatever do you mean, I am long over all that! I have better things to do than worry about this crap!" just make sure you find other fun things to do...that way you have something else to focus on.
and order some exercise videos, and we can discuss those!
Would there be any chance of either of them changing jobs? I hate to say it but if they are still working together, they would still be seeing each other, and still have to talk to each other. There are still some common ground. Think you could subtly manouvre your H to find another job elsewhere? Just a thought. Many ppl have said that it's all in the mind of the WAS, that if the WAS is strong in the mind, then they could end all thoughts about OP in their minds and they need not need to find another job. But I doubt there are many ppl who can control their mind that well. If they could, they wouldn't have gotten into their sitch with the OP in the first place. I am saying it from the point of my sitch, please don't take it the wrong way. I see my H would never ever be able to really break it off with the OW when they have work together yadda yadda yadda. He is just does NOT have that strong a mind. So, this moving to Country X of his would be good in a way. He doesn't see me, doesn't see her. So it's more level playing field. If he continues to work with her, she would have the advantage - I think.
Deb, don't read things into your life from my thread. Maybe you have a bit of the "self-fulfilling prophecy" going on? You believe it so much, and read so much into H's moods that you push him away? I also believe a bit of tough love is in order - for you. I say that with love, but you really just need to back off and let him sort things out and detach so you are not going crazy. Detaching was the best thing I ever did. Do your own thing, go out with friends, do another 180 - how long has it been since you have done that? Don't be the same old Deb you have always been - but do it for you. Make yourself proud of you. H has lots of issues to work through. Validate, listen, try to help him through, but you really need to detach and start to live your own life right now or else we will be writing you letters in the hospital when you have a breakdown. We don't want to see that happen to you. You're much stronger than that.
Hi Ellie and Cupcake and Rotz and YoYo...yes, I know you are all right about not personalizing, detaching, self-fulfilling prophecies...and yes, YoYo, about leading H towards another job...I have encouraged him, even rewrote his resume for him 1 1/2 years ago, he went on one job interview and then let it drop.
That said, I need to journal here about last night, it was incredible, I feel so blown away. incredible in a very very difficult sense. I am so tired I wish I could just crawl under a blanket for the rest of the day. If anybody wants to share any input or suggestions, as always, I'm very interested.
so, to recap (I'm not even sure I can remember it all) H looked like he had been hit by a train when he got home 1/2 hour before S & I were to leave for religion class. Told me the "kids" (his handpicked team members in the out-of-town office) both told him they are planning to relocate to another part of the state within the next year; A former client of his died this past weekend, he hadnt seen her for several years, but she was a long-term alcoholic, only in her late 40's, and it was very very tough on H....anyway, the physician colocated in the out-of-town office had clipped her obituary and put it on H's desk so he found that when he got to work. As he said, it was meant to be thoughtful but it hurt him deeply and reminded him of his sense of failing this woman (she had been to inpt trtment 8X, I don't know what else he could have possibly done)...He was told me all this as he was starting out the door for a walk, and then threw in the comment "plus all the stuff with this other crap". I knew he meant monster, and asked "did that get bad too?" H turned on his heel, came back into the room saying yes, and proceeded to spill the beans. And there were lots of beans to be spilt. so....Evidently she was at the door to greet him when he got to work monday morning, all smiles and perky and happy, saying how nice it was to see him, welcome back from vacation, and she had missed him. gee, am I surprised??????not. Tuesday she was gone for CE. Yesterday afternoon at 4 she called him at the out of town office. All nice and cheerful and happy, although he could tell she was beating around the bush about something. Then she came out with "I wanted to tell you ....I'm dating someone"...well, she is dating a guy from H's teeny tiny hometown....who knows H, was in his younger brothers class...H was absolutely petrified that she will "spill the beans" about them, said he told her he doesnt want her breathing one single word about the two of them, no pictures, doesnt want anything he gave her exposed (ie her trophy boxes). said he told her "that didnt take long!" Of course that was the absolutely wrong approach, don't know why he took it, because she LOVES to do whatever to stir things up. H said she gave a naughty laugh and said "maybe I will and maybe i won't"...H said he wished I'd go slit her throat, I said I've thought of it many times but he'd be mad at me if I did, he said i was right because it would mean prison and it wasnt worth it. H went down the stairs to leave for his walk, turned around, came back up the stairs into the room I was in, said "this guy is the finance manager at the dealership where she bought her new car - what a whore", went down the stairs and out the doors, saw S in the yard, told him he didnt have to worry about her D being in class this year and gave S a thumbs up and walked off.
H was lifting weights when S & I got home, came upstairs, obviously still distraught, said he thought we need to get his new system set up so he'd have more to do (uh, yeah.......). H pulled out a chair, sat down at the table. I pulled out a chair and sat down across from him and just listened; H started talking about monster/her dating the guy from his home town, and how awful it will be if his folks find out and his family (uh huh, folks already know, he just doesnt know they do), and how he just can't believe he didnt mean anymore to her than that, he thought she loved him, and how badly it hurts, and on and on.
I was mystified, I've had a sense that he was not done with her, but if he was saying how much it hurt, what are his expectations? so, I flat out asked "were you expecting to get back together?" and he blew sky high. said "I'm never going to talk to you again about this, you just rub me and stir it all up and make it hurt more. leave. get out of here and leave me alone".
I was so blown away. I started to cry, got up so he wouldnt see me, went and finished loading the dishwasher while H wandered off to watch tv.
I turned on the dishwasher, picked up 2 beers and my house keys, and left the house, walked to a dike with a walking path about 1/2 mile from our house, and just sat to be alone and get some fresh air, think, and cry in private. I was gone about 2 hours. just sat and thought and cried and debated what I should do now, stay and keep trying or just go. I thought I heard H call my name once, but then decided it was just wishful thinking....saw a car leave our cul-de-sac and drive up the main road, but didnt think much about it.
I cried, thought, drank my beer, cried some more, swatted mosquitos, and decided to go home. walked in the door, and was met by H in an absolute tizzy. just nuts. wanted to know where I had been...I told him....then he went off about he NEEDED ME and I LEFT HIM....HE NEEDED ME REALLY BAD and I LEFT HIM. I told him he'd told me to leave and I needed some fresh air. he said he hadnt said that at all????? (yes, he did, it hurt like hell)...He was absolutely wild. Said he'd been out looking for me and didnt find me, didnt know what had happened to me, I told him I hadnt heard him.
We went upstairs, I don't remember what all was being said, but H said he'd just called monster....2x....that he had called her and told her that his wife had left and it was all her fault and that he couldnt find his wife and if she was dead he was going to go down there and kill her....evidently she yelled and cussed at him and hung up....then H, the dumb ass, called her back to apologize for being so mean....said monster answered the phone with her sticky sweet voice saying "HIIIIII!!!!!" (yes, I know the voice, makes you want to puke, I've had the joy of listening to it) then said "oh, I don't want to talk to YOU" and hung up on him....H said "she thought it was that other guy"....
H was absolutely off the wall, I have never seen him like this. Blubbering about how could I leave him when he needed me so much???????
Then he went to the closet, got his shotgun, got it out of the case, put shells in it, saying he was going to end it all because he can't stand the pain anymore. NEVER EVER has he done anything like this.
As I look back I'm surprised that I didnt panic, but I felt a strange sense of calm. "one more move and I call 911" popped into my head, but I didnt say it. I was able to say to him calmly "don't do that, put it down", and I walked to him and pushed the barrel down to the floor and put my arms around him. He collapsed sobbing on my shoulder. I just held him, then I said "promise me you won't do that" and he said "I promise I won't do it tonight, but don't take that away from me, I have to know there is a way to escape the pain."....
This is bad, to put it mildly. I am considering what to do. I have been thinking of going to talk to H's supervisor....but I don't want to over react. H is alluding to future plans, which is a good sign....but I am very very concerned. I have never in all the years I've known him seen him that distraught. I am watching him closely, I will take action if he seems to be becoming any more despondent. it is a horrible thing to contemplate. Thank God S 13 was in bed asleep.
We went to bed, and H begged me to hold him and hold him. I told him I would hold him all night if he wanted. He talked and cried, again about the hurt of knowing she didnt really love him (I don't understand this, but o well) about how he let me down and hates himself for it and is so sorry. about how blind and stupid he was.
crap, gotta get off the computer, back as soon as possible. more to come, unfortunately.
Wow, Deb - I don't know what to say. Your H needs therapy VERY badly or he might hurt himself or you (or the monster). He NEEDS therapy. And it's very manipulative as well to take the shotgun out, when you were only gone for 2 hours.
Personally, if it was * me *, I'd see what I could do to get him help and then leave. He is really sliding down a dangerous path and I don't want to see you and your son get hurt. This isn't about being sexy, he seems to be slowly going insane and I know you don't want him to hurt himself - but he could hurt all of you.
I know dfb, I know. I am really worried about H...not sure how much to push at the moment. I'll share an email in a minute that may clarify that statement. He is in so much pain, I find it hard to comprehend, but I have no doubt it's very real.
I have never been afraid he would hurt us, he has never made any kind of allusion to that...but then most people I suppose arent thinking of that who do get hurt. Still, it's tricky. He seems to be very slowly opening up to outside input....he may snap back the other way if I push too hard, but yet dismissing it isn't wise.
Maybe Ellie would know better what to do, but I think maybe some sort of intervention? I don't know if he's suicidal, but if he threatens it, then you have to take it seriously. I have had a murder/suicide in the family in recent years, and all I can say...he NEEDS help.
Sorry this is so long...but feel like I need to get it down here, for lots of reasons.
H & I discussed many things last night in his tormented state. H talked about what a horrible history monster has and that he always knew it would come to this, but what was wrong with him that he hadnt been able to extricate himself? I had no answers, could only listen and validate. H said that he cant understand how he is so flawed that he could be so drawn in and deceived...I believe this is a big source of his hurt...self-loathing as the priest said. I told him that I've come to believe that there truely is a devil and that he works in hard to detect ways....using appealing things/people and blinding us to the truth being some of them. H listened, and seemed to be considering this very carefully. H said what a fool he had been to take monster to our vacation spot, because now she had stolen our vacation with all the memories.
I actually read some bible verses to him, this is a first for us....then H seemed to cheer up, said "That's enough bibling" and intiated ml (???????). so all over the place. Neither of us slept much at all, I think I slept a lot more than he did. I kept looking at his tormented and tortured face and recalling Snodderly's words that he had not yet hit bottom but that I would know it when he did, and thinking "this has got to be the bottom".
This morning before he left for work, he said that he is hoping they will fire ow, that he knows her supervisor is still documenting and writing her up, that before they didnt have enough on her, and he believes they are trying to make sure they "do it right" this time. That he feels sorry for the poor sucker she's picked up now. That her xbf knew exactly what he was doing in getting rid of her...that she reminds him so much of his xgf, the one who broke his heart before I met him, that he even called her "mary" (xgf's) name...which po'd monster to no end. that he wondered why he chose to recreate that doomed relationship...all I could say was it had to be some unfinished business...he said he always knew this was how it would end with xgf also, so maybe he had to prove it to himself. I commented that he had NEVER called me the X's name, ever. He said a lot more, it's kind of outside of my memory right now. Just before he left for work, he said "I promise we are going to be great together"....
I got two emails from him this morning, I will copy them here for reference, anything anyone draws from them I'm really interested in hearing.
1st one, at about 9:40 -- "How are you doing? Thanks for helping me out last evening. I don’t have emotional melt downs too often, just seemed like everything converged on me at once. Don’t worry, we will be awesome. I think monster getting another boyfriend really makes the situation final and in many ways is helpful, I don’t have to wonder is it really over or not, I know it is. Also, she is not going to spend her time stirring me up as she has bigger fish to fry and I can finally heal emotionally. Thanks for your patience and support. Well, I need to get back to work. Later,
I responded that I loved him and wanted to help however I could, that I hate to seem him suffering so, regardless of what the our sitch is, and got this about 11...the tone seems less...formal? "Thanks for the e-mail. That helped a lot. Just knowing you care that you really love me. I guess that is what seems so confusing at times. I thought that monster loved me, yet I see so clearly she doesn’t and didn’t and I just can’t believe I was so blind, dumb, naïve. I do see how much you love me and it is humbling, thank you so much!! Yes, she like many borderlines maintains control through chaos. I honestly feel sorry for her next unsuspecting victim, my prediction is 6 months!! I really feel so sorry for K, I’m afraid she is a lost child. She will be pregnant by 9th grade if not sooner. I can just see it so clear, yet nothing a person can do. I know, I prayed on vacation for a sign from God regarding Monster. At the time I was thinking that the one sign it was truly over was if she found someone else and bang she did. It seems God continues to consistently answer our prayers and it’s that we belong together. Could you pray that I maintain a clear view of this situation and that the emotional pain subside? Well, I need to get going. I love you very much! Your D
sigh..............such god awful turmoil.
We have a framed copy of the prayer of St. Francis in the family room. H told me last night that everymorning when he gets up he goes and prays that aloud. Just seems interesting for some reason.
Deb--number one, you must get the gun out of the house. Have a friend of his come get it or you take it somewhere. It might make him angry, but the alternative could be much worse. Keep trying to get him to the doc. He needs help as soon as possible.
oh yeah, a couple of other comments H made last night/this morning: that ow "told me I had to choose and now she is furious that I chose you and is out to cause as much trouble as she can for as long as she can".
and
"Last year when we (our family) went on vacation she told me "if you ever do that again I will hurt you" and that is exactly what she is doing, making good on that. She was setting me up by coming on so excited and friendly when I got back and got my hopes all up to thinking "well maybe this will be ok, we can be friends" and she just did that to blow me away with all this other crap"
Also, this morning H was saying how upsetting her contacts are, and I said, trying to not be too controlling/motherly, "what would happen if when there is a contact you find out is not work related you just end it right then and there?...and he came walking into the room saying "i've decided I'm going to instruct A (secretary) not to accept anymore calls. I cant think of anything at all that can't be handled by email". so, we shall see. I wish he would do that. OR run all correspondence through her supervisor.
H also talked last night about how he failed the woman who died, how bad he feels, and how it is just tearing him apart dealing with all these people for so many years just to watch them die. Said that he has a "gift" for knowing how things are going to turn out and another client is going to be dead within 2 years, he just knows it.
Said how when the one male co-worker he was close to, it left such a void in his life (the one who called the other day)...and that is how she got her foot in the door, that's when she (monster) really moved in. H started crying and said "I thought she was my friend, I just needed a friend, and then she started to make love to me and it was so horrible"....I'm not sure what to think, seems like denying his responsibility, but obviously he was caught off guard.
Talked about how much he misses the other male co-worker who left more recently, how he was such a wise and holy man and such a blessing, and he needs him and misses him.
Maybe you have a bit of the "self-fulfilling prophecy" going on? You believe it so much, and read so much into H's moods that you push him away? I also believe a bit of tough love is in order - for you. 
I say that with love, but you really just need to back off and let him sort things out and detach so you are not going crazy. Detaching was the best thing I ever did. Do your own thing, go out with friends, do another 180 - how long has it been since you have done that? Don't be the same old Deb you have always been - but do it for you. Make yourself proud of you.