I intended to post and forgot...H mentioned to me this week that at times he was so upset from all of ow's fit throwing, and the anxiety and guilt, that he would vomit.
I remember when he used to be so sick to his stomach all the time...it seems like for a good year and 1/2 it was that way. I always wondered if it was because of the A, now I guess I know, right again!
He seems much better now, altough he still complains a little.
Just a quick update. I really am starting to believe we finally made it! and I owe it all to the "ultimate dirty trick"! (and god and the coaching from folks here)
it was a good weekend. Saturday morning, H came back to bed after feeding the animals, snuggled, ml 2x, had no performance problems, and was happy and pleasant. He commented that he wished the weekends didnt go so fast...he used to say how hard the weekends were. He doesnt seem mournful about ow at all anymore.
During the day Saturday he came up to me and out of the blue hugged me and smooched me....I told him how nice that was, and he said "really?" and seemed surprised, then said "I'll have to try to be better about it then"....maybe I'm slowly teaching him how I want to be treated?
H put on his wedding ring to go to church, and didnt take it off until he worked out Sunday. S12 was telling us about a weird tv show he watched where this couple had been supposed to sail on the Lithsutania (sp?) and missed the ship, thought how lucky they were...somehow their wedding rings got fused together?????(makes no sense to me) and they got on board the Hindenburg for their trip instead, and "were in the 1/2 that didnt make it"....I don't know what made S bring up the weird show. Anyway, when we were in bed Saturday night, I was almost asleep, h was snuggled up against me, and he took ahold of my left hand. H said out of the blue "I wore my ring to church"...I told him I had noticed and that it meant a lot to me...Evidently I need to mention this more?????? then he asked if I had mine on...????? I have no clue why....???? I did, and told him so, and he kind of fiddled with the diamond and said maybe ours would get fused together too....I didnt know what to think about that.
H told me Saturday he appreciated all my efforts to lose weight...I told him I appreciated knowing he noticed and was glad he appreciated it, but that I was doing it because I need to for me....it is nice to hear he notices.
We grilled out for lunch Sunday, took a nap in the pm...we talked about how 2 summers ago we didnt do it at all (we used to do it alot), last summer only a few times. H said "see, I told you things would get back to normal"...after ml, he also commented "I told you we'd get this working"????????
H talked about ow/a matter of factly and off and on all weekend, and apologized several times. Said he had told her that S12 had called her "a wh--e with a rosary" adn it really upset her; said she used to quote bible verses to him ; that it was pure hell being around her by the end, that things came full circle, because it had a first seemed so wonderful, but then got to the point where he couldnt stand to be at her house H said she used to get mad at him because she would put me down, and he would stand up for me, telling ow I was reallly a great/good person. I think there's a dbing lesson there...because while she was putting me down, I was chewing my tongue off to try to avoid saying anything negative about her, (most of the time I managed not to SAY it, at least)so that H wouldnt feel he had to defend her (which he always did).
In the afternoon, h worked with me trimming trees in the garden I'm getting ready to replant. This is big, he used to not do a thing around our place...afterward, he commented how much better it looked and sounded really satisfied.
last night, we were snuggled up against each other almost asleep, and somehow wound up ml again. no performance problems then either. H seems happy with the way things go, when 2 weeks ago he was complaining to high heaven.
At one point, he commented "when you get your figure back, we'll really be a hot couple, and we can thumb our noses" I asked what he meant, and he said at ow...I'm guessing she told him I'd never lose the weight, and it is important to H to have some one to do physical things with him. Funny thing is the tables seem to be turning there also...I think I've lost some this week, and H keeps mentioning how fat ow is getting and how bad her eating habits are and how lazy she is and how she refuses to exercise....
This morning I had several emails, one mentioning how nice the weekend was and how much fun we had in the night...I flirted back with him. He did mention teaching the young, cute co-worker how to play tennis...I suppose I should be alarmed, it always alarmed ow that h even talked to her, but I'm not. I really believe he sees her as almost a D...
H wore his wedding ring to work today, I was clear out of the room when he put it on, so there was no coercion.
It occurred to me that one of my goals/dreams came true when H chose to be in bed ml with me on Saturday morning instead of rushing off to be w/ow. I longed for this so much for such a long time, and it never seemed remotely possible that it could happen. IT DID!
I have some goals for myself to get done this week. will post them tomorrow, headed to the fitness center at the moment.
Quote: I think there's a dbing lesson there...because while she was putting me down, I was chewing my tongue off to try to avoid saying anything negative about her, (most of the time I managed not to SAY it, at least)so that H wouldnt feel he had to defend her (which he always did).
There it is again, that High Road - it's tough to walk it, but it usually does pay off. Far better to let the OW show her bad side than for you to show yours!
Wow...you are an inspiration. Some quick questions...did you H ever moved out? Was he ever confused about whether to stay with the family or to go to the OW?
Hi! I also read in your previous thread (page 1) that you mentioned a book (written for the OW) that if a guy doesn't leave his family/wife within 3 months, he ain't gonna; and if he hasn't stop sleeping with his wife, he ain't gonna leave his wife. Appreciate if you could point me to the direction of this book. I need some morale boost. My H started his R with OW since Sept/Oct 2004. I found out in early April 2005. And since then, he has been confused. One moment, he wants to work on the M, another he is not so sure. He says he tried to break it off with the OW, but both he and OW kept on running back to each other. I have stopped pursuing and asking questions about OW. H is not so angry lately, but is still unsure about us. But he has taken the initiative to start work in another company (OW is a coworker) in about 2 months' time. I don't know....what's the prognosis?? Appreciate your experience.
Hi Hope, its good to hear from you...I don't have much time at all today, but tomorrow I'll try to get over to visit you.
things seem to finally be going well, although H is not sleeping well again, the last 2 nights, and is a little grumpy, and that makes me anxious. I think he is stressed at work trying to get ready to go on vacation for 2 weeks, and "wound up", but it is hard for me not to worry that it has to do w/ow. D called me yesterday at work, worried about her H (our SIL) being terribly depressed and upset that he's entered the wrong profession...SIL told me when I called him he thought he was having a "quarter-life" crisis (guess that's from a song?) but then after H got home from working a 12 hour day, he had to counsel SIL, and said he just feels "drained", he doesnt have much to give...that concerns me, because that's part of how he got sucked into A....BUT at least he is talking about it now, and I am smart enough to listen!!!!!!!!!!!!!
h tried to get his ring on this morning before work, his finger is swollen again, and he couldnt, he swore about that a little, but he did say "At least I could get it on for Tuesday, that's when I really want to send a message (to ow at work)!!!!!!!!!!! I never thought I would hear those words. Praise the lord!!!!
Hi yoyogirl (I sure understand the name!) I'm honored to be called an inspiration, but if you go back very far in my threads, you will find that I was formerly known as the "Queen of Crazy Making"! I worked HARD to earn that title!!!
I don't have much time today at all, but will try to share a few quick thoughts/answers, and tommorrow I'll try to write more and look up your thread.
My H never left home, never said he wanted to...in fact would insist he didnt know what he wanted/was going to do, more than once bawled like a baby when I told him he needed to leave if he had to have her. Lately he told me that he was "terrified I'd lose all this, that it wouldnt be here", meaning our home and family and (I hope!)our M...He was confused for a long, long time.
H was also horribly confused for a long long time, he would flat out tell me he didnt know what he wanted, what he was going to do, more than once he told me the odds were "50/50" that he would decide to stay...that broke my heart, BUT even at the time I reminded myself that was a huge gain from the time he was ready to walk out the door. literally.
My H's a went on for over 2 years (5/03) and I suspect was emotional for 6 months before that. he told me that even recently (in last 6 months) he would find himself thinking "well maybe I should go there because she says I promised"....and then he would be heart broken at the thought of leaving home. He would tell me how confused he was.
the book is called "This Affair is Over", it's a small paperback, has questionairres, etc, and is designed to help the ow decide if/when to get out...it is no longer in print, but I think it's available on Ibis. I don't recall the author, will try to find her name. I found it encouraging.
I was fortunate that I got some really good coaching here. A friend here named Dawn asked me once what kind of a person I would be drawn to if I were H, and that helped me start formulating my "Ultimate Dirty Trick" strategy. Ellie and Sage would remind me often that I needed to work on DRAWING him back, that I couldnt pull him back but might be able to draw him back by making home a pleasant, peaceful enjoyabe place to be. I focused a lot of energy on that, and it worked, it is EXACTLY what H needed and exactly what ow was NOT capable of giving. VERY IMPORTANT in my sitch. JJ the moderator posted somewhere here a question asking "what were your spouses 5 biggest complaints about your M" and "what are his 5 strongest stereotypes of you, and what could you do stand them on end"...that helped me immensely, I spent a lot of time defining that and then planning how to change in ways that related to that.
Now, here's an odd source of inspiration: we watched the silly movie "Bruce Almighty" and in it Bruce asks God "she'll come back won't she? and God answered "would you?" and then said "you be the miracle"...that shook me to my shoes, really hit home with me, and I focused a lot on being the "miracle" h was looking for. (I'd read a love letter from ow referring to that )...
I prayed a lot, for courage and guidance and strength and compassion and to be able to see H as God sees him and to become an earthly reflection of God's love for him. So if you find strength in faith, never underestimate that.
Another tremendous help for me was a post that someone (Christine E, I think) sent me early on called "The Special AS IF Attitude"...I printed it off and had it literally by my side for months, it really helped me a LOT, both in understanding and formulating a strategy.
You asked what the prognosis is...first let me say, I think that fact that your H is confused is a big +....obviously, he hasnt made up his mind that ow is what he wants. I know that's scant comfort, but it really is a plus.
I don't know how long you've been married, but if it's been a while, that is another +, and also if at one time you had a good R, that is a plus, it means there is a foundation under all the turmoil to rebuild on. There are so many factors that come into play, but the fact that he is confused to me means that there's still something there.
my obervation, and many people here told me this, is that ow tend to become nasty angry and demanding...more than once people have posted to me that in their sitchs, the ow got so nasty that they drove their H's right back home. The trick for us is to make home the place they run back to, and be able to stick it out. which is NOT easy...
I gotta go, will try to check back with you tomorrow. If I can help anybody through these awful times, I'd sure like to, the help I got here was so valuable, I don't think I'd be married if not for it.
1 more quick thought then I've GOTTA get back to work, you mentioned "not pursuing"...this is important to a point, but in my sitch I never stopped expressing love and admiration and appreciation for H, because a big part of our problem is that over the years and parenthood, we had drifted apart, and H really believed I didnt care. There were times when my expressions of affection would make him furious, and then I would drop it and back way off for several weeks (now I know it's because ow was using the exact same words, and he was mad that i hadnt been more vocal before he got involved in the a)then I would start back up with teeny expressions of "thanks" "you look nice", etc, to begin meeting those needs in small slow ways (very important to start out small and slow so it's perceived as genuine) I never stopped ml either, because that was an issue previously in our R, and I figured I needed any and every weapon in my arsenal I could get, it was a way to connect, and I had fun at it. I think it helped my sitch a lot, If I had stopped, I really think he'd have probably left. Other people on the bb feel exactly the opposite. I never felt demeaned by it, I guess because H always was loving and respectful and...fun.
I DID stop all crying, begging, pleading (well almost all, tried to!) and tried to stop all mention of ow....
deb - Thanks for your invaluable advice/experience. My H has been saying that OW is not pressuring him, so I don't know if she would ever be nasty as the majority of posters have indicated. Maybe confused is not the right word? H said he is not confused, just conflicted. He does know that he wants the OW, but he also wants the family? He still says he loves me but just not as much He did say he wants to leave home to be alone. And now, he is gonna take a job overseas to be alone for a few months. We do still ML too (me using him as s@x slave?!?) as that is the only real connection we still have. I don't know.... What do you think? I have also tried to say nice things to him but no ILYs. No talking about OW too. I change the subject whenever the issue of our R or future comes up. I don't know how to respond at this point in time...We have been married almost 9 years and together for 18 years next week!! I've been there for him through all the ups and downs...
adn it really upset her; said she used to quote bible verses to him 
; that it was pure hell being around her by the end, that things came full circle, because it had a first seemed so wonderful, but then got to the point where he couldnt stand to be at her house H said she used to get mad at him because she would put me down, and he would stand up for me, telling ow I was reallly a great/good person. I think there's a dbing lesson there...because while she was putting me down, I was chewing my tongue off to try to avoid saying anything negative about her, (most of the time I managed not to SAY it, at least)so that H wouldnt feel he had to defend her (which he always did).
I have stopped pursuing and asking questions about OW. H is not so angry lately, but is still unsure about us. But he has taken the initiative to start work in another company (OW is a coworker) in about 2 months' time. I don't know....what's the prognosis?? Appreciate your experience.