For continuity sake, I thought I'd copy my last post from my last thread...from last night:
uh oh, I read through one of my posts from yesterday, I see I got censored. sorry about that, I try be somewhat "civil"...can I use the excuse that I cut and pasted H's email and didnt think of it???? or that i was so happy to hear him thinking of ow in those terms that it didnt register, maybe???? ah, well
not really much to report, as I said earlier last night we walked and H talked and I mostly listened. I have this sense of "making up for lost time" as far as so many things we've neglected physically around the house...H mentions those as well. the important lost time to be made up is with the kids, though, S12 comes home on Saturday, and H has talked about how he's looking forward to doing things with him...that he told S that on the phone...YESSSSSSS!!!! the poor child has needed and missed his dad soooo much while he's been off in ow land.
An odd thing is that I think h and I are both emotionally exhausted. seems kind of strange at first glance, but maybe it's not...more "come from behind" stuff, I guess.
As far as H, I don't know how to describe it, but he is "different"....everything about him is different...except he's the same person????? he has a softer expression and stance, he has an entirely different tone of voice, he seems more....at peace. He is now, just yesterday and today, starting to say he is "doing better" and "feeling better"....
his emails today were more business like, but in one he did say that he loved me and he would be eternally grateful for the peacefulness I bring into his life. that meant a lot.
We still have so far to go, we need to get to "going out" to do things, and H doesnt seem to be quite there yet, but he seems to be "progressing". we need to physically reorganize our "space" (which I've been working on by myself) and get our finances back to a decent level.
I am still working on my personal goals, things that are about me...I joined weight watchers tuesday am, and need to really focus on that, I still am going to work out regularly. Weight watchers was ironic, though. Yesterday I think I ate enough for 3 days. you'd think I'd be blissfully at peace after H's responses.but I was an emotional wreck here at work, and ate everything I could get my hands on. I guess there's a lesson in that, huh?
Plus I have to stay on track with the changes I've made in how I relate to H....he was here for a minute before he left work, and said he was going to hurry home to walk before it rains. I started to fuss at him, saying "be careful, you'd better..." I was going to say "take a rain slicker" but then I caught myself and said "well, I'm not your mother...." and he shook his finger at me lovingly and said "no you're not, but I'll be careful"...and we just chuckled. But I must stay on top of this. Believe me, the guy does NOT need 2 mothers. the one he has is about equal to a half-dozen "normal" mothers (and that's at almost 80 with five kids and I dont even know how many grand kids.
I did hug him goodbye, and get a little mushy, I told him ILY and asked if he would "always be my treasure" and he said "yes I will, I promise" and gave me a hug and kiss.
H was "pooped" when I got home last night, watching some tv. He asked me to come watch it with him. This is something pretty new, and evidently important to H. I never would have guessed this is something important to him, because it isnt to me, in fact I really don't care much for it. now, I make a point of happily accepting his invitations to join him (I want those invites to increase to bigger and better things) and if he doesnt invite and even if I'm doing something else, I make a point of going in to spend a little time with him, and I always point it out that I'm doing it (in an indirect way!!!!) by asking something like "mind if I hang out in here with you for a while" or some such. I also make a point of telling him how much I enjoy spending time with him (note: I didnt say watching tv; I say spending time with him)....
This seems really strange to me, because as I say it is not my thing, but for some reason it's important to H, and means a lot to him...I guess it's speaking his LL to do it (is this QT, Recreational companionship? both?) anyway, I think it helps. We were both out like lights when we turned in.
This morning, unexpectedly, H got "frisky" before i got in the shower getting ready for work....initiated ML, and had none of the problems he's been having lately. I hope maybe that means some of the emotional upheaval is dissipating. I've also made a mental note that he seems to have a lot less problems 1st thing/early in the morning....I wonder if it's due to less tiredness, higher levels of....what, testosterone...I don't know, but it sure seems like something to keep in mind.
H did seem somewhat cranky this morning. We have a LOT of driving to do this weekend, kind of overshadows any enjoyment of the holiday....I know that is part of the problem.
I did mention before I left that he seemed kind of irritable, and he said "I am and I'm sorry"....I told him it was ok, but I am always overly sensitive to concerns that somehow I may have done something to cause it. H said "you havent, and you don't need to worry about that" (nice to hear! especially after being blamed for everything for several years)....then he said "I just can't believe that I'm 50 years old and still have to be ordered around by my mother. and I resent the hell out of it."
That statement says an awfully lot. I'm not sure what to do about it. At the time, I just commented that I know it's frustrating, it's frustrating to me as well.
What do I do with this???? I sure stay to try backed out/off of that stuff. But now I understand what he meant the time about a year ago when H screamed at me in a rage of fury "I WANT TO BE THE BOSS!". and I'm convinced this is some of the stuff at the root of his mlc and our problems.
I guess one huge lesson for me to take with me is....I DON'T WANT TO/CAN'T come across as anything like his abrasive and domineering parents. Honestly, my MIL is the model for Marie on "Everybody loves Raymond"
How do other people deal with this????? after all these years, I just pretty much choose what to pay attention to with all their carrying on and ignore the rest (most of it!) but somehow it is terribly difficult for H to do that.
Maybe that was a part of ow's appeal, in fact I'm sure it was: the ultimate act of rebellion against his parents, and the illusion of an avenue of escape.
I guess somehow I've managed to disconnect myself from those authority figures/issues in his mind, or he wouldnt be turning back to me as he is.
Haven't been posting lately, caught up in my own drama. Things seem to be going really good for you. It gives me a lot of hope (no pun intended!). As you say if it can work in your sitch it can work in most.
I have to say hats off to you for Dbing through ow being in picture. I threw a fit recently because H brought home some gifts of clothing and denied it saying it was in the house all the time.
It sent me into a tailspin. But I am calming down and trying to deal with it more effectively. Don't know if I would be able to Db if H is having an ongoing A. I really admire your strength.
Hi Pam!!! It's good to talk to you....How are you doing these days? and the "kids?" well, I hope
thanks for the well wishes, here's wishing you a happy 4th as well.
I swear I need to rest up for the piecing part...I feel like I've been running a marathon. so out of breath! I think I could probably just curl up some place and sleep for a week. ah well.
Hi Hope, thanks for stopping in. How are you doing? I did read your thread earlier in the week, and intended to post to you....but didnt get it done, I am so far behind with work and all sorts of stuff.
AS I recall, your H has some RL things, right? I have to say, I can sure identify with how wild it makes a person. I have agonized over everything from black undies (h's workshop underwear) to music CD's to sunglasses that I'm sure were ow gifts. absolutely drove me up the wall. Plus, in my snooping expedition 6 weeks ago, I found some shorts and pants stashed in the downstairs closet that I know had to come from ow....I buy most of H's clothes, I didnt buy those, and they are NOT what he'd buy for himself. oh, yeah, there's a "chore jacket" also....so yeah I've peeled myself off the ceiling with all that crapola. it's awful.
I guess the only way I ever got through was to remind myself over and over and over and over that I can only control what I myself do, which includes how I respond, heave a sigh, and drop the rope. There were times when I'd find this stuff or just know something, and I would literally wander around the house while H was gone (doing paperwork@#%$&*!!!@@%*&) muttering to my self outloud "drop the rope the rope the rope, drop the rope"....even kind of made up a little song to it. Anyone who heard me would have been convinced I was nuts. Maybe I was...probably I was!
The other thing that got me through was turning the focus to me...I can hear the folks here who have pushed and pushed me for years to do just that choking on their coffee, but it's true and I did. for me, I did focus more on what I needed to do for myself. a huge balancing act challenge...but it helped. I sure spent too much money doing it though.
Quote: Don't know if I would be able to Db if H is having an ongoing A. I really admire your strength.
yeah, it stinks, big time, and it's hard as h--l. I came to realize though that I had two choices, to either give it all I had as best I could for as long as I could, or not--call it quits. I believed calling it quits would hurt as bad as or maybe even worse than giving it my best shot (still do in my sitch) and that the potential benefits of "making it" far outweighed those to come from starting over. So I trudged blindly on...and on and on and on in circles it seemed. hung on by my finger nails until they bled. shed lakes of tears. and finally I think can see the light shining outside the tunnel. At this point it looks pretty bright. knock on wood
so, If you feel in your heart this is a good person for you that you truly love and want to be with, then I'd say "go for it"....If my sitch can turn around, all kinds of miracles are possible. It is one long, hellishly hard road though.
Having said that, the thought occurs to me that it's a good thing I didnt know then that it would take 2 1/2 years for him to "see the light" re/ow. I don't think I could have dealt with it.
On my thread I have written about finally accepting that I wnat H and my M and that that's okay. Like you one of the main reasons I stay is that I think I will have to deal with this and deal with the pain whether I stay or leave.
I will have to find forgiveness for H whether I stay or go. And I love him. He is really a good man otherwise. And I belive that if I hang in there may be in the end I will have a stronger M. I pray so.
Hearing your story helps to strengthen my resolve. YOu are one strong lady. I like your metaphor of trudging blindly on. I have finally accepted that I am in this to the end. No matter what it takes I will keep DBing.
Looking for the escape hatch is not what I want. That's the easy way out. Hearing your experience with gifts etc. helps. It helps to know I am not in this alone, that someone else has been there and survived.
Deb, I know there has been a lot of pain. But thank God things are looking better. Wishing you peace and blessings
quick update for the weekend. H and I are pooped. we rushed and rushed this weekend, but I think a lot of GOOD things happened.
Friday after lunch we had to pick H's vehicle up from the shop, then we stopped and got gas and I got an RX...H went right home, I had intended to but decided to see if I could find a pair of khaki capris. bad choice for that day. I spent several hours. I tortured myself looking in the mirrors in the dressing rooms. got so disgusted I didnt buy a thing. I was really discouraged. I got home, and H came into the kitchen and said "what happened to you?"...he'd taken a nap and i guess was thinking I'd be coming to join him. I told him I should have...then had a real emotional minute. I put my head on his shoulder and started crying, said I was such a fat slob I couldnt stand myself and I didnt know how he could and I wouldnt blame him if he left me. He actually held me and comforted me, and said "but I love you, and it's not all about that"...and other nice things. really helped me feel better...and he did it automatically, like he used to in the good old days. It was just a blue day for me, my period started, and looking in the dressing room mirrors was not a good thing to do that day. But I'm amazed that H was so loving and understanding. I thanked him a lot for that.... Saturday we went to pick up S12 from D's house...it wound up being an awful 12 hour trip...because of detours, etc., we'd expected 8 hours. BUT, here's the great thing....H went with me (remember over spring break I went alone because H wouldnt go? and I was so ticked off because he'd gone w/ow to take her D on visitation over xmas?) well, H went, without me saying one word or even asking him to...I decided weeks ago to just let it ride and not even asked and "go with the flow" and if I needed to do it by myself, oh well. but h went. and was pleasant, although I thought he seemed terribly sad, almost looking like he was going to cry a good part of the time. Other than the detours, we had a pleasant trip, listend to music and talked about the artists and talked about work and talked about "stuff"....not really R talk, just "stuff", plans mostly, things we'd like to do, life in general, etc.. We were driving along and H happened to lift his left hand, and I gasped...he was wearing his wedding ring! I remember saying "you're even wearing your ring!" (I don't remember what we were talking about, but I remember saying those words, so maybe it was something about "us") and he said "yes, it'll be hard to get for weights and everything, but I thought the kids would be happy to see it" ....even though that wasnt the best reply he could have given me, I got all teary eyed. Saturday evening he went for a walk, and i noticed he had taken his ring off, but didnt say anything.
Sunday, we met my Sis & her H at the lake before going to my brothers. H was pleasant and seemed to enjoy himself. I noticed on the way there that he'd put his ring back on. We stayed at my brothers Sun. night; sometime in the night H reached for me, and wow! I don't know what makes the difference, having to be quiet, maybe? but h initiated ml and it was great, he had NO problems...at all! and was tender and loving and romantic....one for the record books. I wish we could have more "interludes" like that. I've been praying for passion...maybe this is the beginning of something else good.
Yesterday we drove almost clear across the state from my B's to his sisters. as we were driving I made the comment that I thought I was pretty low in the rankings of a$$ chewings, because I was thinking of his S's and other folks...honestly his sisters are so inconsiderate of their H's, it shocks me. It boarders on cruel, they are demanding and insulting and rude and inconsiderate. I'm shocked at how they treat their H's. Anyway, H actually agreed, and said "that's why I love you"...a big change from the days when my faults were the only thing he saw. When we were driving home, we were so tired, it was hard to stay awake. somehow my hand brushed his on the arm rest and he took my hand. I commented that I like holding his hand, and he said "you do?" (silly guy, I've told him this before!), and I talked about all the reasons I like it. So, we held hands almost all of the 2 hour drive home. H would move his hand for a second to do something and then put it right back on mine.
This morning H was pretty cheerful, rushed getting ready for work, but cheerful. it's a casual day today, so H was wearing one of his "special" t-shirts. he came into the bathroom and said "this isnt too wrinkled is it?" I told him no, but I'd be glad to spray him with wrinkle spray if he wanted (he seems to like that offer, I guess security or something???) so I did and as I was doing it I asked if this was the shirt that had gotten painted in (ow had) and the flood gates opened again, it's interesting, it's like if I make any comment, he starts talking, almost like he wants/waits for a chance to...he said yes it was, that it really ticked him off because she'd wanted it so badly, then she painted in it and her D slept in it for months but HE GOT IT BACK and he got the paint out of it! she still calls it "her shirt" and wanted it back, but it's an f-you kind of thing and now he's worn it to work several times. That he knew that he needed to have something of value to use for leverage with her if he was going to let her have anything important (???????? WTF?????) and he'd had an emerald ring of hers, but she'd demanded it back "a long time ago, last fall" so he'd been able to get his shirt back...that she has a collection of shirts from all of her guys....how weird, how high-schoolish. I told H I thought that was weird, and he agreed. THEN he said " she bought me a bunch of black-diamond stuff"...I said "she did?" and he reached in the closet and pulled out a nylon rock climbing shell....said she'd found their website and got it for him for christmas....huh. I wondered what she'd gotten him. I pretended to pout, said "but I got you cool stuff you wanted for christmas" and he chuckled and said "Yes you did, but I just want you to know the competition is stiff!"...I know that sounds awful, but I actually took it as a good sign, because H was joking and teasing. I think it's a good sign that we are moving towards being able to do that. My retort was "I'm sure the fact that the competition is stiff is not a problem for you at all!" ...and we just laughed.
I did comment that I was planning on figuring out how not to be so boringly predictable. H said "but you don't know how good that is"...and then started talking about how you never knew when some innocent comment was going to cause a tirade that lasted for weeks.....and he talked about that a bit.
then he mentioned that she would not be at work today, that she's taking off this week. I asked if he'd discussed the taking tuesdays off thing with her, and he said not discussed, just in mail, that he'd emailed her last week that he was taking Tuesday off and that it would sure be helpful if they could do that and not have to see each other....h said she'd said "that's a good idea"...I'm hoping he's being honest, but I don't think he'd be as open if he wasnt being honest, he hasnt been in the past. I said that it makes me nervous to hear that he has any contact at all, that it makes me afraid he'll go back. H said "I don't think I'll go back"; I told him "that's not what I want to hear; what I want to hear is that you KNOW you won't go back", and he said "I know I won't go back"...not flippantly, but matter-of -factly.
H talked about all the client complaints about her, that she doesnt do what she says she will, and that the next time he hears complaints, he's going to turn her in to her supervisor. H said she's still on corrective action, and he thinks her supervisor hates her and would get rid of her if she knew he wasnt protecting her any more?????????hmmmmmm, don't i wish. H also commented that he thinks she'll be moving on soon. please lord!
H wore his wedding ring the entire time since he put it on Sunday morning, and even wore it to work this morning. I havent seen him today, but I felt somehow like he wasnt going to be taking it off. I hope.
oh yeah, I did ask him Saturday night if he was wearing it because he wanted to, not just to make the kids happy, and he said yes, he was....I know it's a tiny thing, but I believe it's actually a big thing disguised as a tiny thing, if you know what I mean.
Other comments were made that i think are significant, but I cant recall them at the moment. will have to jot them down later, I guess.
oops, one thing I thought of, though: H now refers to ow most of the time as "whats her name"....In fact he seldom refers to her by name now...I actually had to ask him once who he meant (shouldnt have done that)...I believe there must be some significance that she's been demoted to "whats her name"...I certainly hope I'm right.
I'm surprised to find that I still easily become anxious...I havent had much in the way of email from H today, and what I've had has been pretty much business like. And I find myself becoming a little anxious. I'm going to try to change my focus.
I did think of a discussion point from this morning I was going to post: H commented that being with ow made him a different person, an angrier person, because she was always "spoiling for a fight" and he became like that. I commented that I noticed then that he was "different"...angrier...and added that I always thought/worried that I had done something...he said i hadnt, it was her...and I mentioned that I knew I was bad about internalizing things.
Kind of a "note to self" here, in the face of my not-much-email related anxiety.
