I think addiction is a very good analogy. You even get nervous when others say they have gone two hours or two weeks without contact from the SO.
And yes, it is driven by her and you react. Mostly positive. But I do agree you tend to get your expectations WAY TOO HIGH and then are let down with a resounding thud when it does not go the way you imagine.
And yes, in most instances, a relationship of this nature would be likely to progress into an more intimate state. But I'll be honest and have nothing to base this on, but I do not think she is going to let this happen.
It is not like she is consciously trying to control the situation or keep you close, but it is working out this way and neither one is doing anything to change the situation. So she can have the current R with you, as I have pointed out before, when she wants without the daily pressures of a more intimate R.
Does she care for you? Clearly. And you have made your feelings clear. But what does this do to change, alter, advance the dynamic?
Dogma, I don't post often, but I read every day almost and I feel I am in a very similar position as Wes with his ex W. Mine is not x yet, we are separated for over a year now, but the dynamics are very much like this. When you say that Wes and his ex W are not going to move off of this dynamic unless someone does something different, what would you suggest? Frankly, I do have the same feelings of addiction and urgency, high expectations, fears...and my W keeps coming back and wanting to be close, but only so close and only so far....I think she too will never let herself go all the way back to "us" because of pride or fear or anger deep down. If I do something drastic, like the LRT or get out there and 'date' (she has a little), part of me thinks this will 'wake her up', yet the other part thinks she will just be relieved to not be the one to make final decision.
Anyway, I would be curious if you had some thoughts what Wes could do to stir up his situation in a constructive way?
The problem lies in I have a limited view of this as an outsider, neither from his or hers or your perspective.
These are simply feelings I get from the interactions. It does not seem likely she wants to advance the R any futher for a myriad of reasons far too complex for any of us to reason.
Now I will say this from my own experience and readings and observations, I have very rarely seen a case of where going completely dark or LRT (and I think it is overused and misused) suddenly resulted in the WAS "missing" the other person or "finding themself" or urgently wanting the other person or the R back. I think it suggests to the WAS you are ok with what they are doing and they go on with their new life.
I will also echo my thoughts I believe our (positive)behavior does not have nearly the effect on their behaviors, decisions, beliefs we would like to think. I can guarantee what effect negative behavior will have; we have all seen this.
But to the the question; what if anything can someone do to change a positive dynamic to a more positive one?
You could flat out ask. What are we doing? Where if anywhere is this headed? But we all tend to avoid direct questions we already know the answer to and do not want.
The real question is, why do you continue to interact and pursue as you do? And can you honestly live with this relationship until something "happens" to alter it?
Sorry to highjack Wes, but I hope these babbling comments are relevant to many of us.
Good night, back to bed, I have no idea why I am up at 545.
Nothing to post. I struggled mightily with my demons last night. She didn't return a call I made earlier in the day and it just bugged me. And yes, I know that is not a good thing. I resolved that problem with some phone calls.
Quote: The real question is, why do you continue to interact and pursue as you do? And can you honestly live with this relationship until something "happens" to alter it?
This was directed to both of us but I want to address from my perspective. My asnswer: I don't know if I can live with it. I'm also not sure if doing more than tweaking the current R is wise. LRT/Dark is definitely not something I want to try. Long periods of time without interaction will just make it more difficult to be comfortable when we are together. I agree that "she won't let it happen", but I wonder if it will happen despite herself. That if I'm patient that over time she'll want to see more and more of me. That her confusion will get worse. That she become more unsure that we aren't right for each other.
1) Even as short a time as last week she still had that "cotton candy on the brain" that she had whenever she indicated she was confused about us. If I wasn't making any gains at all she wouldn't have any confusion. So I wonder if despite her head telling her not to let it happen whether by continuing on if I can overcome the obstacles in the way.
2) Put yourself in her shoes or think about a time you had a friend of the opposite sex. This is a woman that says she only wants to be friends. But she is completely aware of my feelings for her. She knows I love her and would take her back. Why would she want to encourage this by continuing to either invite or accept invitations to spend time together? Just using me? I just don't know if her words and her actions are in synch. Should I just continue to ignore the words?
So after considering this....and I've said this before...I think the weakest link in my chain is that I'm not getting a life as well as I should. I have too much vested interest in this R. I'm still available whenever she asks. I need to be the one that doesn't return the calls everytime or that has other plans. But I actually do need to have plans. Most of the time my plans have been housework, mowing the lawn, and other uninteresting things. I need to get out and do things...golfing, whatever by myself if I can't find anyone to go with me. I still need to get back to my book. I'm stuck. And I need to be PATIENT. I keep setting us back by getting my expectations way to high and then reacting when they don't happen. Exactly as Bruce has said. If I can avoid the slips I might see more forward progress.
I'm rambling. It's the confusion talking. Thanks for listening
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Hi, Wes. Bruce makes a good point with changing the dynamic, but I think that that is basically what all of us are attempting to do anyways.
But, I am going to attack you here from another perspective. Time to do some GAL work!
Didn't you say that when you were first together that you couldn't give all of your heart to your ex, afraid to give totally? (I think that was you, I just can't find the post now!) So, with all the hurt from her walking away, are you positive you could give your whole heart to her this time?
Another thing, and this is something that I muddle through my mind every now and then, Are you absolutely sure of your intent to develop a new R?
I ask this from a psych standpoint. I don't think anyone likes to be 'dumped' and would rather be the 'dumper'; so I ask myself over and over-am I just trying to win my ex back so I can be the one to WA at the first sign of trouble.
Next, you really have to get some productive outlets going in your life. Not another R or going totally dark to her, but to have some interests outside the time that is spent w/her. No one wants to be the only source of happiness in a R/M. I am actually quite upset w/my ex over his selling his bike since that was his pride and joy and made him more of a complete person. He has picked up tickering w/some models, so that is a good sign that he still has personal outlets. I wouldn't want him back w/me if there was nothing in his life other than work to satisfy him.
I'm starting to ramble here and probably not make sense. (been a long weekend and it's not over yet!) I just thought I would through out some things for you to comtemplate. What kind of things does Wes enjoy to do? Things that make you happy or satisfies you w/o involving your ex?
Quote: So, with all the hurt from her walking away, are you positive you could give your whole heart to her this time?
She has it all. I'd first have to take some of it back in order to withhold it from her. After all of this and putting my heart out there for her to stomp on there is absolutely no more reason to look for the first sign of trouble so I can be the dumper instead of the dumpee.
And no, this isn't just about the challenge of winning back someone that dumped me. I think that the easy way for me would be to start completely over with someone new that doesn't have an inventory of the things I've done wrong in the past. I could use what I've learned to make a relationship that doesn't have an undercurrent of distrust. I've explored my motivations and firmly kept in mind the challenges I would face if I got back together with her and I still feel that it isn't some fantasy I want. I want a renewed R with her.
And yes, productive outlets are good. I have some that I've been neglecting. Thanks for reinforcing that I'm a loser. J/K.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
'Loser' never entered my mind until you brought it up! j/k
I just don't hear you talk about very many activities that you don't call her up and ask her to join you. Like walking the dog and playing tennis. (except it would be kind of hard to play tennis by yourself!)
Or tennis with the dog; how embarrasing would it be to lose to the dog?
I agree, for all of us, we need to get out and get involved in activities for us and should the natural, non-forced occasion present itself, invite the other person.
But I sense a strain or force on your part, to include her or to get yourself included. It does not feel natural, like it would with a new person. My read, but it could be WAY OFF.
There is little doubt, as we have discussed, about your feelings for her. As I questioned, is it enough for her to break through her obstacles and of course, it raises the natural hindsight question, of, if she could have, you might not be D.
This dynamic as twisted and as bizzare and unnatural as it is, works. It works for both of you, right now. Breaking it off and wanting her to seek you out or miss you, is not likely to work. Tweaking it (to whatever degree) may have some effect, but to what objective?
I guess the way I would look at it and you have sort of alluded to this; is approach it as a NEW R with a NEW person. It is unlikely you would call the new person several times a day or invite her to every activity you are involved in. It would likely drive her away. Think in those terms and see if you do not form a different perspective?
ps Do not listen to us. We do not have "dates" with our X's or talk to them several times a day or get invited anywhere by them. And they do not drop by to leave books or walk the cat.
Dogma, These are very pointed questions to keep in mind. I would love to just ask direct questiona and get direct answers, but, yes, fear plays the biggest part in not doing so...even if the answer for now is..."I just need more time" or "I don't know what I am doing"...it is the asking that seems to set back the progress, so I try not to.
Why do we continue to interact and pursue? (I feel like she pursues me, I do respond though with being there for her much of the time, joining her on trips, etc) For me, it is a constant question.."Why am I still in this?" "Is it really worth all of this time, energy, and pain?" I have weighed this out many times and in the end some of it is feeling guilt for having messed up our marriage (both of us) in the first place, feeling like we did have mostly a wonderful thing and could have even a better one, and I want my W and kids back as a family, a home and a future. The problems we had were mostly communication related and we have both improved alot in that area...with more to do.
Anyway, I think my W is in a very comfortable position in some ways...life with the kids, making decisions w/o anyone else's needs in mind, dating, having me as her fall back, comfort zone. So, yes, she probably has no desire to change this R that we have now. It seems to be up to me to change the equation, the dynamics, and to make her less comfortable. I think the best way to do this is to take little steps away from her and more towards myself...not focus on her or us, but on ME. That is the hard part....we all need to focus on ourselves first, because our WAS certainly seem to be focused on themselves.
XW definitely does not pursue me; something you and Wes both have in common and most would view as a positive.
Hey Wes, where are you? We are taking over your thread. Hope you did not get a life.
But we come back to the circular question, why? Why did they want out and a D then turn around and develop a different R.
There is there argument they need space and time and distance and needed D to start over. I do not buy that argument. They wanted out for many reasons we cannot begin to comprehend.
Right before and after the "bomb" and intially after she moved out, we had limited contact. She wanted nothing to do with me or the R or the M.
Do we have contact now? Yes, not like some.
Are we friendly? Yes. Does that make it easier on me? Honestly, not really.
I guess I have to both question and admire how you guys act in the manner you do?
Yes, you want the R and the person back full-time in your life. But as you said, at what price?
Can you sustain this R and enthusiasm for as long as it takes? Another year? Two? Three?
J/K. 