I thought I would check in. H and I are doing very well. There is more sex (though not as much as I would like). More initiation by him (not as much as I'd like). Less resentment on both parts. More spontaneous displays of desire (not as much as I would like).
We are on the "slow boat" in the sense that we still need to work on regularity, on expressing needs, on variety, fun, play etc.... These things are all very difficult to my H. I really get the sense that we are better because finances have improved, H is exercising and feeling better about himself and I have lowered some of my defenses and expectations in favor of feeling my way through. Is our doing better any reflection of anything I have read, discussed with H, written to H? I have no idea. So... how are we really doing and what is the prognosis? Anyone's guess. I am still looking forward to our WWME weekend in November.
Recent events:
A friend of hours is strenuously avoiding proposing to his gf of seven years. I keep asking H why. The gf is Barbie beautiful, smart, accomplished etc... Finally, it comes to light that they didn't have sex until 2 years into the R and that even now it is an "event" when they do and all too rare. I have no idea of the actual frequency but here was H's take: "I couldn't have stood it if it took 2 years until we had sex", "I know that you sometimes feel that we don't have enough sex but I certainly wouldn't be happy if it was like that for us." I really should have run with this conversation but I was just suprised to hear that H saw himself as valuing the sexual R that much. Hhmmm....
Last evening (and frequently over the weekend) as H and I snuggled up watch tv - H proceeded to rub my back very sensuously and my @ss also. Over the weekend he did that every night and that was followed by sex every night!! (even though he kept saying how tired he was). Last night he didn't initiate although I'll bet I could have and would have gotten a favorable result. It has been just lovely.
I am torn between the desire to enjoy the place we are in and the desire to parlay this progress into progress in other areas. For example, is now the time to mention that I would like more oral sex? Is now the time to mention that more kissing (not just passionate pecks) would really rev my engine? I know that the several ladies here who have made progress will be familiar with the dilemma. To pressure or not to pressure that is the question.
I know for me, I will always remember what my wife said a year ago when we had a discussion about sex.
She said that I shut her down because it was "never frequent enough, never kinky enough, and so on..."
She says that she felt she could never satisfy me (that I was selfish) and gave up trying.
So, I don't know about pushing the other issues... such as more oral, etc...
I am in the same boat as you though, but not as far along. I want much more out of our sexual relationship, but we aren't even having vanilla missionary on a regular basis so I can't even think about pushing for more variety yet...
...and while I'm on it... It would be great if wife would be willing to try something NEW, but right now I would just be happy if she would do the things she did when we first met...sign...
Quote: I am torn between the desire to enjoy the place we are in and the desire to parlay this progress into progress in other areas. For example, is now the time to mention that I would like more oral sex? Is now the time to mention that more kissing (not just passionate pecks) would really rev my engine? I know that the several ladies here who have made progress will be familiar with the dilemma. To pressure or not to pressure that is the question.
I think the best way to handle asking for this is right in the moment. Of course that is just my opinion. Like you are touching and getting sexual and ask him.... baby kiss me passionately. If it revvvvvved my engine I would say something along the lines of hmmmm that was really nice baby. If I have wanted oral sex from him I ask him. My husband started slacking in this area awhile ago. So I tried this....we were starting to touch and kiss and so I asked him right in the passionate moment...honey would you lick my kitty. I have missed you so much doing that. When he did by my moans and screams he could tell I was VERY appreciative of his skills. When he was done and right before he entered me I told him how awesome that was. From then on he just did it a lot more. Maybe it just took that reminder that I enjoyed it and missed it. Of course I really think he got turned on that I asked.
As far as asking for more "quality" in your sexual encounters, I think you should do whatever you think it would be reasonable to do if you had a HD husband. In other words, as I so crudely put it in one of my posts- Don't build him a handicapped ramp to your p*ssy. I am adamant about this not just because I know I would be bitter in the long run if I settled for lower quality sex in order to get more frequency but also because I don't think doing a lame *ss job at anything in life encourages you to do it more often.
However, I do agree with Cally that frequently bringing up sexual preferences or just nudging things that way while actually engaged is sometimes more natural one reason being that a lot of things that seem really hot while you're doing them don't seem that hot when you're unaroused and vice versa. I think another good though not exactly straightforward approach is to just say something like "While I was sitting bored at work today I started having a fantasy about you giving me head. It was a really hot fantasy.".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
The nice thing about being out of the desperate phase and having a workable H is that you can approach new goals with more positivity and finesse ( not that I do this,lol). You have a good idea of your " wants' and they certainly seem reasonable, as is your " slow boat" way of thinking.
On the tapes MWD talks about taking the time to think about what the endpoint is---what would success in your M look like? I know in different areas of our lives H and I have gotten caught up in the pursuit of joyless perfection, so you just want to make sure you're not on that destructive track ( which sounds like you're not).
I have a pretty clear idea of what the endpoint would look like. The problem is that I think the current "improvement" might be more despite my efforts than because of them. I'm just not sure. If I describe the endpoint to H I think it will do more harm than good. If I just figure out the endpoint that is fine for my own information but what I am really hoping for is something along the lines of "continuous quality improvement." I do think that some things go well as "whispers in the dark" now that we are in a better place with each other. I will try it and see. I guess I just feel confused because I'm not sure what caused our improvement and I would hate to derail it. I also don't want to be a "sexual nag" but as JJ said I'm not really willing to provide too many accomodations for an imaginary sexual disability. After all, H gets over his personal anxieties about many, many things without my help. He is capable of dealing with those surrounding sex. By the same token, I must deal with my own fears that infrequent sex creates because there is nothing sexy about anger, fear and anxiety. KWIM?
I am listening to the book "Enlightened Sex" by David Deida and finding it very interesting. It really speaks to the issues that several of the women here have discussed about why it seems different to be the HDW. We have tried to explain it a thousand ways - Deida talks about the feminine desire for "ravishment." This is what the ladies here are talking about when we talk about pursuit. His description is exactly what we are talking about as is his description of the feminine desire to be filled. I thought of Lou's LDW when he mentions shopping as one thing that fills that desire. Through his descriptions I can see some things that I might work on. Even if it doesn't help - the concepts in the book are very sexy. My H likes books on tape - he might even listen if I mention it.
The title of this post is actually a little joke but if I could work one concept into H's subconscious it would be this one "Ravish me please."
Karen, I had a discussion with H last night which was essentially a variation on the "I'm just not like that" theme. In it, he conceded that he knows how I'd like to be sexually approached but he can't seem to make himself do this.
We talked and talked and the topic veered off into his career and the things that have happened. At one point, he said he was a failure at both things. I replied, No you are not a failure--you just need to apply yourself more.
His "I'll sit back and hope that good things come my way" mindset has not helped him in his career or his love life.
Anyway, he startled a bit and said, Apply myself....what does that MEAN. I remember teachers telling me that but how does one DO it?
I refrained from answering because it suddenly hit me that if you are a 'following' type of person..one who doesn't feel that fire in your belly to assist in your own destiny, then the concept of applying yourself is really going to seem daunting, if not impossible.
Personally I can't imagine being the other way.
anyhoo, I just wanted to chime in and say that him ravishing me is probably as far from his realm of possibilities as me sitting quietly back, for years on end, and hoping that good things happen but not doing anything to aid that cause.
I love the ravishing concept though and the book sounds bitchin. Did you buy it or check it out from library? You know me..gotta go the cheap route, lol.
I have found some David Deida books at the library but this particular one came from Sounds True - they sell books on tape. They can be a bit expensive but I buy them for my own sanity on my two hour daily commute. This one had me ready to turn the car around, find my H and strip him naked and whatever else came to mind after that. Deida is a very sexy writer.
I suspect that my H is a bit like yours as far as the "how do I go about that?" kind of thinking. H is a real go getter in business and in a million other ways. Sexually, he hangs back, stays a little distant, waits to see what will happen - lately he's put himself out there a bit more and gosh would I like to encourage that. I think the hanging back stuff has to do mainly with anxiety.
The first time we had any sexual contact H actually freaked out a little because he said that he had never had exactly that sensation before - I think he hyperventilated a little or something. He has gotten more comfortable since but seems to have a lot of discomfort around really taking the lead and/or trying new stuff.
I kinda feel like a sh*t right now because H just e-mailed me a couple of dates that he thought would be nice to go see a play in a local outdoor theater, with dinner before and maybe taking a little "tourist cruise" also. Very romantic. Very sweet. We'll have a great time and I will have about a 50/50 shot at sex that night. That very fact actually makes me a little resentful beforehand. I suppose I need to get over it. D@mn it - do I really have to give up my "handsome rogue" girlhood fantasies?
Well I don't think you need to give up your fantasies but I think that you and I need to be ready, and willing, to state upfront what we want in our "dream" dates. That is, be willing to state "oh that sounds great--I'll tell you what would really cap a night like that off..making love afterwards!"
I know it's pressure...but dangit, it is a 180 for me.
Last night, we were talking and H was positing that I am a night person and he a morning person. I told him that I'm not really a night person. While it's true that I am more alert at night than first thing in the morning, I don't like to stay up late nor do I like to wake up late. He said, But you always want to stay up and ML. I said, H that is because I would rather ML than get 30 minutes more sleep. That is a preference of mine that has nothing to do with night/morning person. I just like sex and prefer to do it alot.
This was a definite 180 for me. I am not usually so blunt or graphic or OUT there with my sexuality. My tone was kind and matter of fact and with no trace of attacking at all. So he took it well and for the statement that it was.
Karen, I'm really done with stuffing my true feelings away or "hoping" that he will remember. I think my new tactic is going to be to state upfront what I'D like out of my own darn life and yet make sure at the same time that I am doing it with his feelings at the forefront.
So my vote about the upcoming dates is to not let this wish fester for the next two weeks, but to say to him, You know when you mention dates I automatically think of ML that night. My brain just connects sex with romance. Do you think we can incorporate that element into the date?
I'm sure that the LD folks who are reading this are going to jump in and hold up the red flags and shout, Stop the pressure! but like I said, this is a 180 for me to state upfront what I would like to happen. In the past, I would have just hoped that it did and then been bitterly disappointed when it didn't.
Of course I really think he got turned on that I asked. 