Quote: I guess if your H is initiating sex but he's doing it because he knows that you want him to he would be in a state of arousal somewhere in between being the initiator or the initiatee. Does this make any sense?
Yes, and it's a good description of what is happening. We're ML every few days and he makes sure to let me know it's on his mind...I leave the exact timing to him, but even in doing that, he is not too aroused bc it's still pressure, in a way.
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BTW: I wish my H would be more willing to initiate without a raging hard-on. This would eliminate his need for the porn "crutch". IMO it's much more intimate to become aroused together anyways.
What a nice way to look at it...I guess I have been feeling insecure about it all, and bc an aggressive style does turn me on. Time for me to be more flexible and have more connection and fun.
Quote: Do you think that your H is afraid that if he doesn't start out a sexual encounter fully aroused that he won't get aroused?
No, he is willing to put himself out there when he's not aroused.
Quote: Does he have the ability to relax and let his arousal happen as it will?
Yes he does...I am the one who gets all tense.
Quote: What if, even given his and your best efforts, arousal just doesn't happen?
This happens but infrequently...usually he will get there, or there enough for penetration. If it's not happening, I will make some comment about trying agin the next day, which will get him going. My H, if he were a racehorse, would be a good come from behind/closer type.
Quote: HP... He has gotten a lot more open about expressing his desire. As I mentioned earlier, he will make suggestive comments or grab/squeeze me; he'll discuss when he'd like to ML and is making it clear he wants a sexual connection...I guess what's missing is the arousal part of it all. He feels desire for me but the arousal takes longer, and this is what gets me upset. I would be very excited if he pressed into me and I felt his hardness against me, but that never happens. Is there anything in SSM about arousal following desire?
I don't know about SSM but this book I have been reading treats this subject. I talk about it in my thread below "Reclaiming Your Sexual Self." This book is pretty much written for the LD woman, but it has a bunch of good stuff in it for all LDs and people married to LDs. Here's a quote from my thread about the books comments on arousal and desire:
Quote: She makes the distinction between what she calls "desire" and what she calls "arousal." Desire (these are her definitions for the purposes of the discussion in her book-- others may have other definitions outside this book) is NOT accompanied by physical sensations. Arousal is the next stage, when there are physical sensations present. She makes the point that early in a relationship desire and arousal will usually happen simultaneously, and we probably think they are one and the same thing. Later, after you are more familiar with each other, when you're sleeping in the same bed every night, after kids, jobs, etc., desire and arousal may separate like a single highway that splits in two. Now, later in the relationship, because we don't feel the physical sensations of arousal that always used to happen with desire, we assume there is NO desire. Desire very likely still is present-- namely, a desire to be physically close, to express love, to do The Thing that feels so good once you start Doing It. This "desire" needs to be recognized and acted upon. Once things are underway, arousal will follow. This matches what some have said on this board about being aware of the flickers of desire and not ignoring them.
This approach makes sense. Think of it. In the early stages of the R, all you had to do was know that your SO was going to call or be over that night, and your engines started revving. Now, after years together, you think of him/her coming home and you physically don't get that "engines revving" feeling, so you conclude that you no longer desire him/her. But she's saying this is not true. Desire is wanting and at this stage of the R is a mental thing. Some may still feel desire and then arousal (physical sensations) very quickly even after years together. This is not to discount them. But the point is, that even if the two don't appear together, that doesn't mean desire isn't present or that you are no longer "in love."
wow, Lillie, that was really helpful. I really only skimmed through your latest thread bc it was about another book, lol... I am still working on UL ( at a snail's pace). Thanks for all the useful info!
This whole concept of desire first and then arousal is really blowing me away. Personally, I experience the two together, or I feel the tingles first and then I want to ML; it has never occurred to me to want to ML and then have to wait for arousal, except when we were doing the scheduled sex thing. Even then, I would prep myself with a bath and erotica to get going just a bit. I have always been much more of a feeling person...waiting for the right feelings, while my H is more cognitive, setting his mind to something and then doing it. In the past , he was the HD one but I was a dud...I didn't know what I wanted/needed to rev myself up, and H was not assertive either. He needed to feel in a good space with me to get aroused, and I needed some more interesting stimulation.
I feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders...I feel forgiving of both him and myself, two clueless and awkward people with poor communication skills and immaturity. It's been easier to avoid all this and just move on in a platonic way toward an emotional, if not real, divorce. How sad for us all these yrs.
The good news is that at a time in our lives where the sex would have been dwindling anyway, we get the chance to reinvent ourselves and become more open, honest and direct and work towards intimacy. Last night H came through as he said he would and we had a nice nite. The journey continues.
What does the book say about restoring desire, or at least making it obvious? For a woman that can be aroused but can not desire, what is the fix? Desire is the important part, not the arrousal. How can a passionate marriage ever be achieved with a spouse that can not desire?
Cemar, the book really doesn't address the issue of NO desire, but it is very helpful toward catching the tiny flickers and fanning them, if not into a flame, then into bigger sparks. The next time you're in Borders, just pick up a copy and look it over.
How can a passionate marriage ever be achieved with a spouse that can not desire?
It's more like your W won't desire. We think of desire as something that occurs easily and naturally, but you can also make up your mind to desire ( clearly not the same thing) and this takes a lot of effort. It's the starting place where H and I began over a yr ago when we made those date nites; it's awkward because you have to push through a lot of internal resistance. But, if you really want to, you can put your mind to it and you can turn around a troubled marriage, and desire becomes easier.
H and I had a nice few days...we had a few mini relationship talks, where I bring up something from the past ( I can't seem to help this) and we eventually discuss how things are/ will be different now. No major arguments or meltdowns. Had some fun time with S10, with H stepping in to break the mom-son fusion that sometimes happens, esp with my daughter away. We went to a ball game, saw fireworks, bbq'd, visited my ailing parents...normal stuff, with a mix of family/friends time, marrigae time, and personal time.
H initiated 3 mornings in a row...he was more relaxed than usual and seems to be more aroused in the am ( not my best time but I'm going with what works). This morning I woke up very early, had a lot of anxiety/neediness and was tossing and turning and woke up H. I asked him to hold me and such and we ended up ML. He was annoyed with me when he left for work...made a comment about his penis falling off and something about sleep, but he just called and bonded a little, saying how stressful the day is going. I am being lazy and have yet to start my day...time to hit the shower.
Goals... keep a good attitude ( esp when H comes home); stop bringing up the past.
This morning H initiated again...the whole thing had a very relaxed and natural feel to it ( sometimes I can feel this pressured feeling from H when he's trying to get aroused). Afterwards, the EC was really there and he lingered with me for quite awhile ( he was off from work today).
The only drawback is that he commented that we have been having too much sex lately and we need to take a break for awhile. I didn't get into this with him to clarify what this means, but I hate this kind of statement...very dictatorial.
Quote: The only drawback is that he commented that we have been having too much sex lately and we need to take a break for awhile. I didn't get into this with him to clarify what this means, but I hate this kind of statement...very dictatorial.
Maybe he just meant to convey what somebody would mean if they said "We've been eating too much barbeque and ice cream lately.". If your H is a Type7, he might say this because he is trying to fight against his own self-indulgent nature. He is giving himself dictatorial orders, not you. The reason he would do this is there is something he feels guilty about not doing when he is doing sex. For instance, maybe he's been procrastinating on a work project and feels like he doesn't deserve to be having a "f*ckfest" while that is true.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
