My thinking: if this makes you happy, and not done out of anger but from a centered, calm peaceful thought through place in your heart and mind... then, you go, girl.
From your qualifying comment, I take it that you understand that underlying my decision is an anger that wont go away.
I cannot deny it. I am angry at him on one level. More than this is the hurt that he is continually causing by his lying. I understand that in his way he is trying to minimize the hurt he is causing me but he also wants to continue his R with ow. I think however what comes across from him is his selfishness in not even trying to understand all the repurcussions of his affair. He reminds me of an ostrich with his head buried in the sand hoping that if he stays there long enough, the danger will go away. This is what makes me angry.
On a different level, there is the recognition that our M has been truly awful with both of us on one hand being selfish and on the other, trying in our ways to please the other but not understanding that we were doing the wrong things.
I guess it's not a simple black or white situation, there are so many greys that it all seems murky. I am already wondering whether I will, as H says, regret my decision. But I guess deep in my heart I know that this time H has gone too far and to carry on in this M will be a loss of me.
NY, what bothers me is that I find it difficult to control my sarcastic comments to him. In one of your posts to someone who had made a similar comment: I think she said something to the effect of 'I couldn't help myself...'. You responded by saying 'you can'. Basically you implied that to control her responses was definitely within her power. I have since then thought a lot about this and would like to be able to control my responses.
You had also given great advice on thought stopping in my previous thread which I followed and it worked. Do you have any tips on controlling my responses to H?
Hi Burgbud
You are right, I dont believe H because he has constantly made the same claims since January when I found out about the A. Every time, I give in and then he makes all kinds of promises and never follows through. Each time I then find out that he is still seeing ow. This, for me is totally unacceptable. If our M were to have any kind of a chance, he should have given up ow - for me, there was no compromise on this. I suppose that this seems harsh.
As well, when I dig deeper, he doesnt appear to have any warmth or good feelings towards me - it is just easier and more convenient for his career to carry on in this M.
Two days ago, he said that I dont know him if I think that he got involved too deeply with ow. He said that there is a part of him that got involved but that he is incapable of committing too deeply. If this is true, then that means that he has never loved ow, which seems to be good news for me. But, if I were to think further about this, this is terrible for me because it means that he is also incapable of feeling too deeply about me and that our M has been a farce from the beginning.
This is the hardest part to swallow. I loved H so completely - yes, I made many mistakes, I was not able to understand how to love him. But this cannot negate that I loved him and wanted to make him happy. My intentions were never wrong. It is in a sense, a double edged loss. Not only have I lost my H and my M, but I am also finding out that H was never the H I thought he was. All of this has left a dull ache. I dont think I am capable of loving any one else with the same intensity, the same purity.
A long overdue post: (euphimism for a monster post coming up)
On the surface of things - more of the same happened. Scratch beneath the surface and a lot has happened.
Quick situational update: I had asked H to move out by the end of August and had planned a weekend away for myself at that time. H, as I knew, dug in his heels and did not want to move out. He wanted to stay on in the apartment and said he would sleep in D4s room. He ended up convincing me to go along with him and D4 on holiday. Once there, I shamelessly pursued H and told him I did not want a divorce and we connected physically in a major way. A lot of it was due to me drinking and being very uninhibited.
We got back to London and he moved back into our bedroom. H left for his business trip to the country where ow lives on Oct 10th. He is still there.
Reflective update:
Separating from H if he is continuing to see ow is the right decision for me. During September things were very different between us. I believed that we had a strong chance of recovering from Hs affair. This happened because I changed my attitude to being Hs friend, spoke gently to him and loved him. H responded to some extent. However his response was guarded. This may have been due to several reasons: either he still believes himself to be in love with ow or he was not sure whether the changes on my side were genuine. Our phyical intimacy increased significantly in quantity and quality during September. I think, for the first time in our married lives, both H and I were genuinely, massively contented with this area of our marriage. In fact, H was verrrry happy. I have begun to see my own behaviour and how it contributed to Hs unhappiness in a very brutal way. But I am also beginning to see how H contributed to my unhappiness. Unfortunately we were both caught up in a vicious cycle of pain. I still have a really long way to go before I can say that I am happy with me. I found myself smacking my D4 and this has scared me into action. I have begun reading up on anger and trying to work on myself. Counselling is not an option for me at this point, although it would be the ideal solution. I have begun praying and this has helped me somewhat. I used to be very religious and was a strong believer. Somewhere along the line, I lost my faith and now, I pray but with a lot of scepticism. I think, among all that I have lost, it is the loss of faith that I mourn the most, along with the sense of innocence.
The way forward:
A couple of weeks ago, I wrote H an email (copied almost word for word from Dr Harley's book) and told him that I wanted no contact until he decided to end his affair. And if he decided instead to end our M, I still wanted no contact and that everything could be worked out with no direct contact. I decided that it hurt me too much to be in contact with H whilst he was having his affair. I need the space and the distance. I will paste the letter, his response and my subsequent response in the next post. It will save me summarising it all.
At the moment, I am working on becoming a Sophie I am proud of. I know in my heart what I am, what my intentions are. For the first time in my life, I am beginning to understand that my actions, which I thought of as self-preservation, were actually harmful to myself and others. My sarcasm and my coldness were not in keeping with how I want to be or how I believe I am. (My hitting H is absolutely inappropriate and is not what I am referring to here). I believe I can get to where I want to be.
What drove me for a major part of my life was fear. Fear of not being loved, fear of being rejected and lately, fear of not being in control. I dont believe I need control for power. I am just scared of what will happen if I lose control. A book I am reading says that the basic fear underlying all this is the fear of not being able to cope. I identify with this. When I think back to instances where I have lost my temper, it is usually because I am scared of what will happen if things dont go the way I think they should.
The whole uncertainty, not knowing what will happen to D4 and myself, has to large extent kept me in this M. I am much more comfortable now, in the uncertainty. I believe that D4 and I will be okay, no matter what happens.
If anyone has made it through this far, thank you for reading and I would love to hear any comments.
H called yesterday. As soon as I picked up the phone, D4 picked up the extension in the living room, and so when H started speaking to her, I hung up from my end. After he had spoken to D4, he asked her to pass me the phone.
I think my leaving the phone does emphasize my intention of no contact until he has made the decision and has proved it. However, when he asked to speak to me, I did speak to him. In some ways, I feel that I should not have done spoken as I have laid out my boundary and it is upto me to keep up my end. On the other hand, he was calling from his family home and to not speak to him would in a way, seem insulting especially as his mother and sister were right there.
Anyway, obviously I asked H why he wanted to speak to me and he said 'why not'. I said because I had asked him to respect my need for no contact. He said that he had already broken up with ow etc. There was more of the same type of conversation between us. These exchanges leave me really upset. H does not understand where I am coming from. I do understand that he is in a different place emotionally and that to him, he is losing the love of his life and I should be grateful that he is willing to give her up. However, I dont feel grateful. I feel bitter.
I have been re-reading Divorce Remedy. A couple of months ago, I began to question the sub-text of the book. All of the emphasis is on the LBS to improve and make changes - does this implicitly mean that the LBS has caused the affair? Even if the WAS changes their mind and decides to stick with the M, the LBS has little hope of getting a meaningful apology from the WAS since to the WAS, they are the ones giving up their great love to be with the LBS and in turn the LBS should be grateful. I find this really hard to swallow. I understand that this is the way things are; there is nothing I can do to change this and that if a LBS wants to make their marriage succeed then this is one bitter pill that has to be swallowed. It just seems really unfair, though. yeah, yeah, i know, life is not fair, i should get used to it.
This post was not meant to be a rant; however that is what is has turned out to be.
I do know what I want: if H gives up ow, I want an honest attempt to repair our M on both our sides. if H does not give up ow, then I want to separate and get on with my life.
However instead what i have is a spouse who believes that he is completely in love with ow; cannot be honest with me; possibly does not know what he wants; does not want to a divorce because of various reasons but cannot emotionally let go of ow because of his feelings for her. however, he states that he has given her up and does not want a divorce.
What are my options?
Oops, D4 wants her breakfast - so i will complete this later.
I have been re-reading Divorce Remedy. A couple of months ago, I began to question the sub-text of the book. All of the emphasis is on the LBS to improve and make changes - does this implicitly mean that the LBS has caused the affair?
Not at all, and I think MWD might even have mentioned in the book that the LBS is not to blame themself for the affair.
The emphasis is on the LBS to take the initiative and make changes because of several, practical reasons. Firstly, the only person one has control over (and therefore can surely change) is oneself. The changes are in seeking self-improvement (eliminating behaviors that sabotage one's happiness, sabotage relationships, etc., and trade those in for effective behaviors), and also because by changing behaviors and patterns, correspondingly, those we interact with (such as the WAS) are likely prompted to change in response.
Secondly, the book is dealing with relationships where one partner is mostly dissatisfied with it, doesn't want it, has given up. That partner is likely therefore not to have the motivation to repair the relationship. The onus to do the work then can only be left to the partner who does want the relationship.
Nothing about this implies any liability to the LBS beyond the LBS's part they contributed to the failure of the relationship.
Even if the WAS changes their mind and decides to stick with the M, the LBS has little hope of getting a meaningful apology from the WAS since to the WAS, they are the ones giving up their great love to be with the LBS and in turn the LBS should be grateful. I find this really hard to swallow.
That's your view, but it's a view based on certain reasoning that isn't all too helpful. Some LBSs may receive what seems to be a "meaningful apology", but that doesn't always predicate a reconciliation. In my case, for example, my WAW has expressed her apologies several times, yet we're not together.
Better than expressions of regret are the actual actions.
Thinking in terms of the "WAS giving up their great love to return to the LBS, for which the LBS should be grateful" strikes me as being colored by indignation. I'd think that a more thought closer to the truth would be "the WAS gives up their mistake, returning to the LBS to repair the relationship, for which the LBS is willing to give the WAS a second chance."
It just seems really unfair, though. yeah, yeah, I know, life is not fair, I should get used to it.
That life isn't fair is certainly true.
It's also true that what you've mentioned seems unfair.
But the issue isn't about fairness. The issue is, that's life, this happened, now...do you want to work towards reconciliation? Do you want to stay looking at the trees of unfairness, or do you want to view the forest?
I do know what I want: if H gives up ow, I want an honest attempt to repair our M on both our sides. if H does not give up ow, then I want to separate and get on with my life.
Giving up the OW and not having any further contact with her forever is certainly reasonable for a reconciling WAS to do.
However instead what I have is a spouse who believes that he is completely in love with ow; cannot be honest with me; possibly does not know what he wants; does not want to a divorce because of various reasons but cannot emotionally let go of ow because of his feelings for her. however, he states that he has given her up and does not want a divorce.
Again, the actions speak louder than words. Also, it's not just the OW that H cannot let go of. It's very smart for you to take control therefore and decide what is best for you and only you.
What drove me for a major part of my life was fear.
I believe fears are really what drive all of us. It's how you view and manage those fears, and therefore your actions arising from them, that either will sabotage your life or enable you to make your life successful.
fear of not being in control. I dont believe I need control for power. I am just scared of what will happen if I lose control.
Certainly, we all have a need to feel that we're in control of our lives/circumstances to some degree, lest we feel overwhelmed and hopeless or victimized or some such thing. Fears again. The fact is, we actually have no control, the feeling of control is an illusion. Therefore, managing those fears provides a stronger foundation to our lives than trying to have control.
When I think back to instances where I have lost my temper, it is usually because I am scared of what will happen if things dont go the way I think they should.
That's a good example of what I mean. You have certain expectations of outcomes, and fearing the perceived repercussions of those outcomes not being realized prompts you into certain coping behaviors that are ineffective. That keeps you on a leash, always experiencing the effects of the behaviors. Those behaviors, such as temper demonstrations, also serve as a self-fulfilling prophecy, because, for example, if you're afraid of losing someone dear to you, but engage in temper tantrums with them, you're more likely to push them away then draw them closer.
I think however what comes across from him is his selfishness in not even trying to understand all the repercussions of his affair.
Understand that there's a lot of guilt and pain for the WAS in doing so. Understand too that typically, the WAS's mentality is about avoiding pain, running away from it instead of facing it and working through it. So it's not surprising that they'll typically choose the path of least resistance and avoid.
This is what makes me angry.
That's your reaction to your thinking on that perspective. Does understanding the mind set of the WAS help in diffusing some of that anger?
Basically you implied that to control her responses was definitely within her power. I have since then thought a lot about this and would like to be able to control my responses.
If it's not in our power to handle our emotions and reactions, then we're mere animals, not humans. We have an intellect that gives us the capacity to manage ourselves. You know when the thought in your head is a sarcastic one. That doesn't mean it has to be expressed through your lips. Sarcasm cuts people down; it derives its humor by belittling others and exploiting them. Sarcasm can be funny, but it's hurtful, so when it's funny, it's funny with a price. The price just isn't worth it.
You had also given great advice on thought stopping in my previous thread which I followed and it worked. Do you have any tips on controlling my responses to H?
I don't know what type of responses you're talking about, but in general, put a time delay between your thoughts and your responses. Identify the character of your thought: is it sarcasm, is it blame, is it all about your expectations, are you bringing up past grudges, for example? Instead of rationalizing them, view them realistically: Is this really important? Does it need to be said or do I just feel like it needs to be said right now? Is this going to make things better or will it aggravate the situation? Am I deriving my thought from assumptions?
Like any other habit, it takes consideration at first to change our responses/reactions and put on a new way of handling ourselves.
Every time, I give in and then he makes all kinds of promises and never follows through. Each time I then find out that he is still seeing ow. This, for me is totally unacceptable.
It is unacceptable. I think you know by now that his actions don't back up his words. That puts you in a place where, unfortunately, it's not the relationship you want nor is it getting you there. Now you have to decide what you're going to do for yourself and your life.
He said that there is a part of him that got involved but that he is incapable of committing too deeply. If this is true, then that means that he has never loved ow, which seems to be good news for me. But, if I were to think further about this, this is terrible for me because it means that he is also incapable of feeling too deeply about me and that our M has been a farce from the beginning.
Your marriage wasn't a farce. You're generalizing your whole relationship based on how it turned out, instead of what it was. That aside, I think that statement from your H is very, very telling. When someone tells you that they're incapable of committing, one ought to take heed!
The key about someone who has commitment problems is that they cannot say either yes or no, and I think that accounts for why he hasn't let go of you as well. I'm in that same situation. The way I'm handling it is to move forward, understanding that our dear, poor ex-lovers have some serious issues with navigating themselves through life. Their problem, not ours. Yours, unlike mine, has an awareness of that problem, yet without getting to the stage where he actually expends effort in working through those problems constructively. I say, talk to me when you've done that work.
Thank you. I am overwhelmed by the effort you put into your post. (I have been sitting at my computer for five minutes now trying to express my gratitude and have typed and erased several times. So, although I cant find the right words, I am sending you a huge hug.)
I think, let me clarify - when I was talking about the sub-text of the Divorce remedy book, I intended to come to the same conclusions you did in your post, but somewhere along the way, I began to rant and so abandoned the attempt. Before I could pick up my train of thought, my daughter demanded her breakfast and so I posted it as it was. It is one thing to intellectually understand something and quite another to make your emotions match this. I am still working on accepting what I know intellectually. I am almost there
I think where I was going was this:
a couple of months ago, I began to resent that it was the LBS who had to make the changes and if the WAS did decide to come back then often, the WAS did not acknowledge the LBS' efforts and this then led to resentment on the part of the LBS. Because I had begun to feel this way, I began to resent DBing. However, over the past month, there has been light bulbs going off in my head - the changes the LBS makes are a recognition of their responsibility for their own actions and feelings. the changes are also necessary to enable the LBS to take the high road, become a better person and generally take charge of their own selves.
I am really grateful that I found the DR book and this website. Growth for me has been unbelievably painful but it is also a much better place to be.
The one area where I still am sore is having to accept the WAS' point of view i.e. that in order to move on it is important the LBS view the ow as an ordinary human being who was important to the WAS and who was there in the WAS' time of need. A lot of my anger has been directed towards the ow and I know that this is something I need to work on.
Quote: I'd think that a more thought closer to the truth would be "the WAS gives up their mistake, returning to the LBS to repair the relationship, for which the LBS is willing to give the WAS a second chance."
I think this is a more productive way of looking at the situation if the WAS gives up the ow. In my case, because H is still hanging on to ow and is being deceptive about it, it is not easy to think of him as giving up his mistake (since he hasn't).
Quote: If it's not in our power to handle our emotions and reactions, then we're mere animals, not humans. We have an intellect that gives us the capacity to manage ourselves.
I think this is a really powerful thought. However, I think that managing ourselves is quite a complex issue. From personal experience, I know that our upbringing has a huge part to play in our responses to people and events. I was brought up in a household where shouting and put-downs were very much the norm. It was how you expressed yourself and managed a relationship. I didn't know any different. I grew up watching Indian movies where emotions run high; put downs are a norm. I didnt see any different. I didnt experience anything different. It is only this past year, that I am beginning to see a need for a different script in my life. The problem is I still dont know any different - I know that my current script is not appropriate (some may say this is half the battle) but what do I replace this with and how do i sustain this effort? This is my current struggle. I like to believe that I am definitely human and not an animal even though I have been unable to control my emotions in certain situations. However, now that I know the difference and know better, I need to prove that I am in the human zone.
NY, again thank you. I treasure your posts and the wisdom in them. There is so much in your post that I need to process.
Journalling:
There is a certain lightness in my being these days. It comes from the acceptance that the uncertainty in my life is there and is not about to go away but that no matter what will eventually happen, I will be okay. I am beginning to find great comfort in the saying 'nothing is permanent'. I have always carried so much guilt and so much worry over the years - that now, beginning to let go of it all is such a relief.
A different tangent: A couple of years ago, a friend came to dinner and was observing my daughter who had just turned three at the time play. She had taken a book out and 'read' it. She then turned to the bookshelf and proceeded to take another one out. The friend told her 'why dont you put the first book back?' At the time I didnt think anything of it other than, 'yeah that's a great idea, I should encourage her to develop neatness from now'. Lately though, that incident came to me as an example of how I failed to teach my D4 a simple organisational skill. I realised that I was unable to teach my daughter this because I myself did not know this. I was brought up without ever once having to clean my room or being responsible for tidying up after I had played. It's a simple example but it drove home to me that there are probably other things (social skills) I had not been taught and this is why I am struggling so much with relationship issues. I have been beating myself up about not doing things right or not being the best person. But I think I am the point where I feel that I just have to stop blaming myself. I mean, I could have been much worse
I have so much more to write about, but I have to get back to work. So, adios for now.
Okay, as promised, here are the letters that i wrote telling H I wanted no contact until he ended his affair.
I took the text of this one almost word for word from Surviving Infidelity (Dr Harley). I copied this email to his girlfriend.
My dear H,
I am writing this letter to you as I told you on the phone yesterday.
I apologize to you for my part in the breakdown of our marriage that helped make your affair with ow possible. I foolishly allowed my insecurities to prevent me from building a solid marriage with you and did not understand that this left your most emotional needs unmet. I was too scared to allow you to have any power over me and this, added to your contributions in the breakdown of our marriage, has made us both suffer.
I am willing to avoid the mistakes that I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with ow once and for all.
Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you in any way. I will request our neighbours L and M to help make arrangements for you to visit D4 whenever you would like. But I will not be here or at their place when you visit. If you want to communicate about D4 or any other matter, it will have to be via your sister (whilst you are in Central Asia) or via L and M when you are here, or we can request your sister if she can continue to be the intermediary via e-mail.
I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured these past ten months because of your relationship with ow and I simply cannot be with you any longer knowing that you are with her. I still love you but I cannot you see you under these conditions.
As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from ow and are willing to follow the measures that are needed to ensure total separation from her, I will be willing to discuss our future together.
I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you to be my best friend.
I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing Toha.
With all my love Sophie
Ow: I love H with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make him happy.
H then wrote back but I did not receive it as I had blocked his email address. However he called, said he would do whatever I wanted and asked me to look at his sent items folder and asked me to respond.
His email:
Hi Sophie
Thanks for the letter. I appreciate this.
First of all, it seems to me that you are talking too much and it was not good that you are sending this letter to everyone. I told you that I had an affair but I was not serious and now I am not serious at all. I lost my interest and desire. The only interest I have left with is to drink and smoke. You are obsessed with all of this. Because of you I am staying in my sister's house, I am afraid to go out to the shop, because if you call and don't find me, you will make your assumptions. In any case, you should know that I am not interested in ow or anyone else. If you want I can write letter to her and say whatever you want. Though it will make me look stupid, because she realised that there is no future for us anyway and I only kept contact to make it easier on me. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN HER but that is fine, i don't care i will write any kind of letter you want. Just tell me what do you want in that letter!. If you want to get hold of me, these are my contacts:
Office 1: ***** Sister's mobile is with me: ***** office2: *****
And please, don't make unnecessary copies or blind copies of your emotional letters to everyone. I haven't told ow to marry me or what kind of problems we have in our marriage. Don't do this. It won't make you look good, and won't help you feel better.
Bye H
I did not want to respond to this letter as I had made my point of no contact but since he was asking me what I wanted in the letter i felt I had to respond. So here was my email:
Dear H
As you requested yesterday on the phone, I looked at your sent items folder and have pasted the letter you apparently tried to send to me. I have blocked your email addresses, so I dont receive any mail from these addresses, they are automatically deleted.
I am going to respond to your letter based on the points you raised (your comments are in a different colour).
First of all, it seems to me that you are talking too much and it was not good that you are sending this letter to everyone.
I sent the letter to everyone because there are too many secrets around and I feel that way forward is to have these secrets ended. As I told you before, in London, if you really want to be with ow, you should. There is no shame in ending a marriage; but there is a lot of shame in carrying on an affair secretly. To stop this shame, I decided to copy all the involved parties on the email.
I told you that I had an affair but I was not serious and now I am not serious at all. I lost my interest and desire. The only interest I have left with is to drink and smoke.
It is your prerogative if your only desire is to smoke and drink. My only desire is to protect myself and my family, that is, D4 and myself. My only interest is to make sure that she and I are now able to repair the damage that has been wrecked in our lives.
You are obsessed with all of this. Because of you I am staying in sister's house, I am afraid to go out to the shop, because if you call and don't find me, you will make your assumptions.
I have never stopped you from going to any place, be it to ow or to the shop or anywhere. If I wanted to control your movements, I would have come to CA with you in July. I told you then and I am telling you now, my desire is not to control your movements. I want to be able to have a husband I can trust.
As a very wise man said, "He who hides nothing, has nothing to hide". If you were to be open with me and get rid of all the lying, hiding, cheating and betraying, it would have repaired our marriage. The only reason someone would object to telling his wife about his movements is if he has something or someone to hide. My obsession with all of this is justified. You have continued to lie to me about ending your affair. If you were consistent with your actions, maybe, it would be easier to trust you. Trust is the foundation of any marriage. You have continually eroded that foundation and this time, you blasted it out of existence.
In any case, you should know that I am not interested in ow or anyone else. If you want I can write letter to her and say whatever you want. Though it will make me look stupid, because she realised that there is no future for us anyway and I only kept contact to make it easier on me. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN HER but that is fine, i don't care i will write any kind of letter you want. Just tell me what do you want in that letter!.
If you are not interested in ow, why did you keep contact to make it easier on you? If you are not interested in ow, why do you listen to her recorded voice at night? If you are not interested in her, why do you keep in touch with her?
I dont want you in my life simply because we are married. H, your attitude is that I should be grateful that you are giving your love up. You say that you are not interested in anything except drinking and smoking.
Well, if I put all the above three points together it seems to me that you are telling me that you are not interested in our marriage either. Smoking and drinking are the only things you are interested in. Well, H, I dont want a husband who is not interested in our family or who does not love me. I dont want you to write a letter just to keep me quiet.
H, I dont want anything from you. I am not interested in making your life miserable. I am not out to harm you or destroy your reputation or anything. I simply want to be able to get on with my life. If you want to be a part of my life because you love me then this is what you have to do:
provide me with clear evidence that your affair has ended provide me with continual transparency about your whereabouts and your doings prepare to work on our marriage seriously and consistently
H, for too long, you have treated our marriage as a free hotel - a place where you can park yourself when you want it and have your needs met without any payment being made. Well, H - the hotel is now closed. I am not interested in being used any more. But, the family will always welcome you.
If you want to get hold of me, these are my contacts
No, I do not want to get hold of you. If you decide that our marriage is what you want, then you have to do what I have already said. However, it will be hard work and I will expect you to give priority to our marriage. If, however, you decide that this marriage is not what you want, then I am ready to end it.
What I said in my other letter still stands: I do not want any contact with you until you decide to end all contact with ow. If you decide, instead, to end our marriage, then I still dont want any contact with you. All that is necessary to end the marriage can be done without direct contact. Since you have not sent a message via your sister about whether you want me to look for a hostel for you when you arrive back in London, I am assuming that you can handle all the arrangements yourself.
H, as I told you on the phone yesterday, it is very likely that my personal responsibilities are about to be increased significantly. I was told that I will find out for sure soon. Keeping this in mind, I have decided I am not interested in playing games. I know what I want my life to be and I am not afraid to do what it takes to make it. I am also not afraid of being alone.
I started out this letter by saying there is no shame in ending a marriage but there is a lot of shame in carrying on an affair secretly. The shame has to end. Either by ending the marriage or the affair. The choice is yours.
Lovingly, Sophie
I know the second letter leaves a lot to be desired - it is very different in tone from the first. I would be interested in comments on what did not come across well or what I could have written instead.
Well, today we celebrate the end of Ramadhan so H called me this morning to wish me. I did not ask any questions nor did I volunteer any info other than to say that D4 and I were well. H: Eid Mubarak Me: Eid Mubarak to you too, may you be blessed with happiness H: May your wishes come true, all of them H: I miss you H: Did u hear what I said? Me: yes, the line is very clear H: look, are my emails still blocked? Me: yes H: unblock them Me: my email was very clear, until certain conditions are met, I want no contact, this phone call is also not something I wish H: look I'll call you at home tomorrow and we can talk Me: I am done talking, I am done with your games, I dont want any more of this. my email is very very explicit. H: I'll call you tomorrow, Eid Mubarak Me: Thanks, bye.
I am just not sure where this is all heading.
I keep thinking of all the clues he has given me into what he's thinking but am not sure if I am reading it right.
The email he wrote that I pasted in the previous post is pretty indicative of what he's been saying. Some other things: I dont know what I want. I am not sure I want to be married. Even if you leave me, I will be alone ten years from now. I had the affair because I was sure that we were going to get divorced. After you found out, I was sure that you will be leaving so I thought I should keep contact with her just in case.
I guess to me this all says that H is not sure of what he wants, he has tried to justify his affair in various ways, he seriously considered himself to be in love with ow.
It is eating away at me that our wedding anniversary is on Monday and he is still in the same country as ow. He was supposed to be in a different country by the end of this week. But it looks as if his entire trip will be delayed by a week. On the other hand, I tell myself, even if he was in the next country would it make a difference if the anniversary had no meaning for him? No, so, it doesnt matter that he is still there. What matters is how I handle my feelings about all of this.
I have been trying to sort out all my feelings and thought and my actions.
I think that at the core of each of us are the values we hold and our intentions. There is then another layer that defines who we are that is conditioned by our experiences and then there is a final layer that translates into action which is shaped by an interaction of the two inner layers and is a response to what we experience in the moment.
I believe that my values are sound and my intentions are pure. My behaviour was conditioned by my early experiences and coloured by a need for self-preservation.
If this holds true and I can find a way to understand my behaviour then, doesnt this also hold true for H? His core values are sound - I would not have married him otherwise. He is also a product of his experiences prior to meeting me and his experiences with me. Can I not understand that H did not have the affair to hurt me? He was hurting and that is why he had the affair. Can I not find a way to feel compassion for him? Can I not understand how difficult it is to make changes in yourself no matter how good your intentions are?
I can, I do understand H and that is why I have been here as long as I have.
So, what is my point? I guess I am trying to determine what to do next. I know H will call tomorrow and will say he is done with ow, he wants to work on our M etc etc.
My dilemma is how to trust him? I am sure he will have the best intentions but how can I really believe him? Also, are we really good for each other? I believe I am better now than I have been over the past two years; but I am not so sure that H is good for me. But do I owe it to him to give it another chance?
After my previous post I reread my entire thread - I was a little flummoxed (is this even a word?)!!! It doesnt sound like I've learned anything or even that I am moving. My posts have tended to have a cyclical pattern (very like the roller coaster). I have periods of doubt, guilt, verbal commitments from H, my wanting to believe him, my checking up on him, my finding out he is still with ow, me giving another ultimatum etc, etc, etc,
I just have to laugh at myself.
Yet, I think there have been many changes in me - perhaps I am not so good at writing or perhaps I only post at certain times so the cyclical effect is a result of this.
Ah well. Update since my last post. H did not call on Friday - yes, I was surprised. Although now, with hindsight, I should not have expected his call. However he did call on Sunday.
From the call on sunday:
Me: ow's sister came to London over the weekend and had the audacity to come to my office. I dont understand these people. If I was in their place I would be too ashamed to show my face. H: I will make sure they know that I love you. (this with reference to my asking for proof that he has broken up with ow)
more bits and pieces, then: H: i know you can live without me and will be happy; but I am not so sure I can live without you. I know you are the best for me. ..... we were happy once and we can be happy again ... you have told me many times to go - if I loved her, I would have left, but the truth is I dont love her. I want to be with you.
Doesnt it make your heart melt? Ah well, more laughing at me. I bought it. Yes, you may ask, what's new?
Fast forward to Monday (the next day). Our wedding anniversary and a public holiday where he is. I expected some kind of a gesture of commitment, at the very least a phone call. guess what nada, zip, nothing. I thought I had mentally prepared myself for knowing that he was in the same place as ow on our wedding anniversary. But, by evening when I hadnt heard from him - I felt like I had been punched really hard.
I tried calling his mobile - it had been switched off. I called his sister's house and this was our conversation:
the sister: hello Me: hello sister: hello Me: hello, sister, it's me Sophie sister: hello, hello
Phone got disconnected. I tried calling back, no one picked up. There are all sorts of possibilities, however, there are too many coincidences. I think H was not home, his sister was too ashamed to tell me that he was not home at 11.00pm. I think H was with ow.
I called H this morning and asked him where he was yesterday. Our conversation:
Me: where were you yesterday, I tried calling you. H: I was home Me: what time H: a little late, around 7 Me: I tried calling you at 11; no one picked up
If H had told me that he was not interested in our M, I would not have any expectations from him. Since he is so insistent that our M is what he wants, I continue to have expectations which go unmet and this makes me resent him.
So, what do I need to learn? H may not say he wants out but he really does? H is a WAH?
It is really difficult to make a decision for myself. I am not sure if staying in the marriage is the best option or separating is. Why is it so difficult to decide? In the past, my pride has been really important; but now, I dont know if leaving him has nothing to do with pride but everything to with self-respect and making a healthy choice?
Is this a process for him as well? Does he need to grieve the loss of his relationship with ow before he can commit himself to working on ours (assuming he was sincere about breaking up with ow)?
