Puppies - I love little puppies. My aunt has 10 puppies at her house -- I'm making a point not to go to her house until all of the puppies are in their respective homes. I want one but H doesn't (yet he doesn't live here). So I won't tempt myself. But on the bright side, I have the best dog in the world (I'm just a little partial). He's 4 now, so way past puppy stage -- but as sweet as can be.
I think I had a breakthrough yesterday - I began to understand, really understand, what relying on yourself for your own happiness may look like. It just hit me. H is not doing anything to make me happy, or validate me or in any way concerned with me at this point. Yet, for the most part, I am happy, am starting to feel good about myself. I guess this is what it means - happiness must come from within. One cannot rely on another for happiness. I think this may seem really insignificant - but, for me, this is truly an emancipatory thought. For most of my life, I have not had any self-confidence and a really negative and dependent self-image. In a really strange way, the past few months seem to have done me more good than harm.
I have had bad times since H left on his trip, where thoughts of what if H is with ow have concerned me. But, in order to feel better, it did not take anything for H to do or for a sign from him (needless to say he didnt). This is what was astounding.
Ironically, as soon as I was having a great evening yesterday, H called. I answered with a smile and sounded happy to hear from him and interested in what he had to say. However, the line was really bad and I could barely hear him, so I told him I would call him back to try to get a better connection. I could not get through, however this is not a bad thing. It gives me time to rethink how I want the next conversation to go from my side.
H calling so often leaves question marks. Is this a sign of guilt, or of him trying to reassure me, or just him consciously being more concerned/supportive? Ah, I guess time will tell. I used to hate being told, time will tell, give it time, time is a great healer. Now, i love having time - it truly is a great healer.
This is probably going to be a really long post. I would really appreciate anyone's thoughts. Another point of view often helps clarify our own thinking.
Well, afterday yesterday's events, all of this seems so unimportant. So many went to work yesterday not knowing that they would not see another day. I was really lucky - having overslept I missed the tube otherwise I would be one of those stuck in the tunnels. As the day unfolded all I could think of was how uncertain life is and how it is so important to make every minute count. This made me question all of this all over again.
I began to wonder if I am doing right to try and see if there is a chance H and I can work things out. Maybe I need to view this as a wakeup call. I mean, our M was on the rocks before the A - maybe this is just the impetus I need to let go of H. Since this whole thing came to light, I feel like I have begun to live again. I've realised what I am looking for.
On the other hand - yes, H made a mistake, but he is now making some steps towards me. Maybe it is time to forgive and forget. Life is really short and sooo uncertain. Isnt it more important to love than to hold on to our anger and pride for infinity?
However, to look at it from yet another angle - I am not holding on to anger and pride. H betrayed me when I needed him the most. H and I dont seem to be very good for each other. I now know what I want out of life and H does not seem capable of meeting my expectations. (Not that my expectations are very high). Besides who wants to go throught life always wondering if you can trust your husband?
Yet again, maybe if H is showing positive steps towards me, maybe these are solid bricks which we can use to build an unbreakable foundation for a beautiful, lasting and unshakeable M?
See, I know I have to make the ultimate decision for myself, but I want people's input on the thoughts I have put here. Is there yet another way of looking at things? Am I missing something? Am I being open-minded and fair? Or am I still reacting from hurt and anger?
Today was my birthday and H had left a gift for me. This was thoughtful and he also called early this morning and again this evening. He had even left money in an envelope so I could go buy a cake. I have really mixed feelings about all of this as well.
Part of me recognises that he put some effort into all of this. But part of me has just been left really cold - he put really little thought into the gifts themselves. Even the things he wrote in the card was so lukewarm that it was a slight shock. I guess I wanted gestures that showed that he cared for me and valued me and appreciated all that I have done over the past few months.
The logical part of me says he is probably still attached to ow. I have not deposited enough love in his love bank. He may also feel that if he suddenly goes from expressing love for ow to expressing love for me in a similar manner, it will come across as phony. By keeping it simple, it's a truer and more sincere expression.
But then also if H is still attached to ow, then I wonder why I am doing all this. If she makes him really happy, and he is in love with her, then should I not just wish him well and leave them to establish their life together? Why do i want to break them up?
So all of this is really confusing. I know that I have said that I will give things a chance but I am just wondering if this is not a chance for me to leave a relationship that has no hope of getting better?
I want people's input on the thoughts I have put here.
You're on a rollercoaster. You're right and you're right: Life is short, what's the point of staying angry, forgive and move forward, rebuild... and... he betrayed you, he hurt you, destroyed trust. So, since you can't have both and move forward, choose one.
Or am I still reacting from hurt and anger?
A good question always. You know the answer, look inside you and think of where your feelings come from and understand them and why you have them, and you can then deal with them better.
Part of me recognises that he put some effort into all of this. But part of me has just been left really cold - he put really little thought into the gifts themselves. Even the things he wrote in the card was so lukewarm that it was a slight shock. I guess I wanted gestures that showed that he cared for me and valued me and appreciated all that I have done over the past few months.
It's the expectations you had that weren't realized that now makes you feel empty. Turn off the expectations and see the positives, as little and tiny as they are, as Michele writes, they are still positives. And unlike unrealized expectations, they are real.
But then also if H is still attached to ow, then I wonder why I am doing all this. If she makes him really happy, and he is in love with her, then should I not just wish him well and leave them to establish their life together? Why do I want to break them up?
Uh oh, a philosophical question. The question is, if you love H, and want more than anything for H to be happy, then why not let him go since he seems to be in love and happy with OW, right? My answer to that would be, theoretically, that sounds right on paper, the problem in real life though is that he may appear to be happy, but it may be just an appearance or imagined or fleeting even if it's genuine. It may not be the best thing for him long term that genuinely brings happiness with it. How do you know for sure that person shouldn't be you in the end? Aren't you the one that's maturing from what you're going through and learning better what is needed to sustain a great relationship and are you not becoming a more compassionate, understanding, wise, patient and loving person? Aren't you also the one who is now gaining a better understanding of what it means to love your H?
just wondering if this is not a chance for me to leave a relationship that has no hope of getting better?
Maybe... and you will know it when that's the case, because you will be feeling like that and only like that for some time and it will become obvious to you and in that day you'll probably find you haven't been thinking about H for some time and it will feel nice and right, IMO.
NY, I have missed your thoughts on my sitch - so, thank you from the bottom of my heart for responding.
Quote: Maybe... and you will know it when that's the case, because you will be feeling like that and only like that for some time and it will become obvious to you and in that day you'll probably find you haven't been thinking about H for some time and it will feel nice and right, IMO.
I am begining to feel that maybe H and I are just not good for each other. What I am not sure is if this is because he is in ow's country and this is my typical knee-jerk reaction: 'oh well, you cant say you dont love me, because I say it first'.
I found an email in his inbox (before you judge, please let me say I was only trying to keep my eyes and ears open). It was a simple forward from one of his friends, however it was cc. to my H and another person whose username is exactly the one that ow uses with only an extra letter added and this letter is the initial of the pet name she gave my H.
The next day this email was deleted.
Now, isnt this too co-incidental?
I guess, there isn't much I can do except wait and see what happens when he gets back. The problem is I know exactly what's going to happen - he will go back to work the next day, continue working until 9.00 or 10.00 all in the name of this lecture he is to give and the research progect he had a deadline for. On weekends, our lives will be filled with grocery shopping, cleaning, cooking, laundry. That is, no change. And I cant complain because I know that it is vital that he prepare really well for both the lecture and the research project (except that a part of me suspects that he uses this as an excuse to continue communicating with ow and avoid interacting with me - this is what he has been doing since the A started). Are any changes in this possible?
NY, there is a lot more in your post that I would like to think about before I can respond. But, once again, thanks, your comments always present an extra dimension.
Yes, he is still having the affair. No, he did not admit to it. I found out by keeping my eyes open. H is to go to a conference in November for some obscure foundation and guess who sent in an abstract to present at the conference. You got it! OW! A person who is simply an administrator and has never done any work in this related field. You've got to wonder how do these foundations select the speakers?????? And the icing on the cake - the foundation wrote to H asking if he would find funding to sponsor her trip to the conference since they come from the same country.
Of course, H being H, has denied everything. It's not the same person (it is), it's a common name (it's not) and he had nothing to do with it (he does).
Anyways, I found out about this about ten days ago and I have since made my mind up. H will never change. He will continue to take and take and walk all over me and my life for as long as I let him. This has got to stop. I choose to end this M.
I think it is the lying that gets to me. How stupid does he think I am - when he tries to convince me that it is not the same person? Why can't he be honest and admit his affair? From what I've read on these boards, the men are pretty honest and tell their wives they are having an A. H, on the other hand, expects me to continue being his slave whilst he gets his emotional fulfillment elsewhere!!!
(I think I am pretty much ranting at this point, but please bear with me - I think my friends will scream if they have to hear me talk about all of this one more time)
Anyway, there are all sorts of complications in my case. I dont know whether to believe H, but that's a different story.
One more complication - H and I work in the same institute. He does not want anyone at our workplace to find out we are separated. I dont want to hide it because I hate having to answer queries like 'oh, you must be so glad to have your darling hubby back'. Also I want to be able to move on and hiding the fact that we are separated just adds to all the stress - I'd have to be careful about what I say and to whom, I couldn't have people over, H and I would have to get our stories straight etc. It would just be too complicated and messy.
Any advice - should I do as I said, and just mention H and I have decided we would like to part ways or should I respect H and not say anything? I think also, the biggest reason is that I dont want people to say 'Poor Sophie, H is having an A and she is so in love with him'.
H says I will ruin him if I tell people. He also accused me of wanting to destroy him. He said so many nasty things yesterday that I just dont know how to handle it. He accused me of being the reason he had the affair.
I know, that H is being unreasonable and is attacking me to justify his own actions - he may also believe these things as true. But it really hurts! This was a person who I was married to and have shared so much with. For him to turn on me in this way is just ......
Anyway.
Here is what I have been thinking:
If H is capable of all of this, arent i better off without him?
One thing confuses me - I want to leave. H should be happy. This will give him the chance for happiness with the one he loves. Why is he resisting so much?
Also by denying their affair, isnt he in a way also betraying ow and his commitment to her?
Sometimes I wonder if i am too idealistic. I suppose H looks at our situation really differently and in his mind has me as the bad person. Maybe he thinks that by refusing to separate he is doing me a favour and is sacrificing his happiness for our daughter and me but that I am not being grateful.
If so, what is the reality? Who is right? Is there one right way of looking? If both H and I are right in our own ways, then what is the best course of action for us?
I know the answer. I need to separate from H. Even the DR book says that if an affair does not end, then the only option is to leave. I have given this seven months. H has only continued the affair and is getting better and better at deceiving me.
I need H to move out. I have told him that he needs to move out by the end of August and he agreed yesterday but I dont know if it was just a way of ignoring the issue for now.
I suppose my best course of action is just to wait until the end of August and see. If he moves out, it will be good. However this is H. What if he does not move out? What are my options then? On my salary I will just barely scrape through after meeting the rent on our apartment. I cannot afford to move to a different place and also, why should I have to go through the 'joy' of moving when we are in this position because of him? I know, bitterness rearing its head.
Anyways that is where things are at. I would appreciate comments on this post especially your thoughts on whether I should tell people at work or not.
An unqualified opinion: H believes his whole R with Ow is dependent on lies and secrecy. He feels incredibly threatened by any possibility of exposure. So he lashes out at you when he gets scared that the A might come to what to him would be a premature end.
I can relate to a certain extent. My W doesn't want her family to know what's going on so they'll be able to accept Om in the future (they know we're on the path to D, just not about Om). And it does seem to me that "outing" her to her family would just be kind of revenge or self-satisfaction for me, so I won't do it of my own accord. But understand that her family is 1000 miles away and it's unlikely I'll have any contact with them anyway. So all that's required of me here is not to pick up the phone and tattle.
But to live a lie every day at work? Absolutely no chance I could do that. I can't go around being cautious every second. H says you're trying to destroy him?!? I know people say stupid things when they're scared, but if he stands by this position then he's being a spineless twerp. If you were going to his boss and trying to get him fired, or if you were telling everyone in the office so they'd hate him then maybe he'd have a point. But just to tell the truth about your own life, "H and I are separated"? No way. I look at his insistence that you totally cover up for him as him being willing to destroy you.
And what's really destroying him here, anyway? Is it you telling people you're separated or him having an affair?!
I guess you have to understand that if, in his view, you broke up his R with Ow for spite, no matter how completely mental that belief is, it won't do anything positive for your M. But I know in my case I would feel beaten down pretty quickly having to hide everything every day, and that wouldn't be any good for the M, either.
I'm really sorry you have to deal with this crap on top of everything else. Good luck!
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
You are right - it would be insane to have to hide behind a facade of married bliss at work everyday, especially as we work at the same place.
Quote: H believes his whole R with Ow is dependent on lies and secrecy. He feels incredibly threatened by any possibility of exposure. So he lashes out at you when he gets scared that the A might come to what to him would be a premature end.
What you say here seems exactly the case. H is scared not because the A might come to an end but because he is not ready for the changes that are coming and this is so threatening to him that he lashes out at me in ways that have been comfortable and have worked in the past.
It's incredible but he does not seem to connect my decisions as a result of his choices. His apparent tunnel vision seems naive at times and irresponsible at others. It's hard to be understanding at these times.
Burgbud, I have been following your situation and feel that you are incredibly grounded and centered. This is a great frame of mind to have especially in the situations all on this board find ourselves in.
I decided I needed a break and have taken time off work in a couple of weeks and am going to go away. I called H to check whether he would be in London that weekend so he could take care of our D and he said 'why are you going away alone? why dont we all go? whom are you going with - your internet friends?' I said 'I am going away alone'. He asked 'where' I said 'I havent decided. As soon as my plans are confirmed I will let you know.'
(It was very difficult to make the decision to go away alone as I thought that by not taking D with me, I was being selfish. But I really need to recharge and just take time to think and do nothing. Yes, I am being selfish.)
H then went on to say that 'you are like a different person, you're making all these plans and not telling me anything, as if you want to cut all relations completely. You are going away without telling me where you are going or who with, you want to rent the room out and not tell me who it is or how much they will pay you.'
I had this big smile on my face as he was talking because it is true - I feel like a different person now that I am taking charge of my life. I love this. I feel like me. I told H 'over the past seven years I tried to make myself into someone you would approve of but ended up burying myself. Now, I feel like I am appearing again and I am becoming me.' I then explained that my plans were not firmed up as I was looking at the cheapest travel option and so the place I am going to is dependent on prices. The person I had lined up to rent the room (more on this, later in the post) is someone he knows and I told him who it was. The amount she would pay me is irrelevant to the discussion.'
A bit of background to the accomodation situation: I have asked H to move out by the end of the month and he has agreed, seemingly. He does not seem to be making any moves to finding a new place however.
For my part, I have lined up someone to rent the second bedroom. I told H this yesterday and he was really annoyed. The reason for his annoyance is that this person is someone from his home country and he says that this way, everybody will know in his country that he is separated etc.
In my defence, I want someone I know and trust and this was the best option. I dont want a stranger living in the same apartment, especially as i have D4 to think of. It is unfortunate that H and this person are from the same country but at this point I have serious financial concerns and safety issues. I dont want to rent the room out to someone who might, legitimately, want to have overnight visitors. Since I am also looking for someone from the beginning of next month, this leaves me with little time to look for someone appropriate. When it turned out that this person from Hs country was looking for a room, I jumped at the chance.
Anyway I told H yesterday that I had someone lined up for the room and he was surprised and annoyed. He asked 'how much will she pay you?' I said 'why should that be an issue?' He said 'I will pay you that amount and pay child support and I will stay in that room'. I said 'this is not acceptable as I want to live apart from you and you staying here will not give me any space and also under UK laws, if you stay here, that would not be a separation and we would not be able to get a divorce in two years'.
H said 'if you bring this girl to live here, it will make hate you and we will definitely get a divorce'. I said 'that's fine'.
H said 'you think this affair will bring you happiness, but it won't. I also made that mistake, thinking we are not happy, our M is not good, the A will bring me happiness, but it doesnt work that way'. I said 'I'm not having an affair'. He said 'your affair is different. You are having an affair with freedom. You think this freedom is what you want but you will regret it.'
Anyway, my biggest fear is that H will dig his heels in about moving out and this person will find somewhere else to live. H will then continue to live in our apartment until it suits him and then move out at his convenience leaving me in a difficult situation.
I suppose I should mention that when H came back and I told him to move out, he said, 'you havent given this a chance. We can still make it work. Come with me in October when I go to 'his country' and in November for the conference. You want me to be transparent - this is the way. I will do anything it takes for this M to work'.
The problem is I should not have to go with him to all these places to make sure he is faithful. He should be more sensitive to what is needed to make the situation better. As people we are simply too different and want really different things out of life and marriage to be good for each other. Ever since I made up my mind, I feel much better. Life seems more beautiful and possibilities endless. Even the thought of being alone in the evenings is not daunting.
Any thoughts or words of advice would be appreciated.
