Part of the reason that I get resentful is because I do sometimes let my H completely change the course of a convo from Sexy to Stern, and I take it and cringe and wish I had never spoken.
What I have started doing now is to....not CALL him on it, cause he has every right to react how he wants to, but just to kindly request that he not rain on my parade every single time. It gets old.
Maybe you could have said to her: "Well let's keep it in mind for someday, then!" This would have accomplished two things: 1) Let her know that you are not going to be pooh-pooh'ed out of your sexy frame of mind and 2) put the issue of weight loss back on HER where it belongs.
I've found that if I respond and sorta reinforce my position a little (not to get too 'military' lol) I feel much, much better. Even if the outcome is still the same and he's not overjoyed with my suggestion or flirt, I feel better because I did not allow him to take my train, which was humming along quite nicely, and chuck it off the tracks and fling it down the mountainside.
I got kinda pissy and walked out of the room to keep from lashing out at her about it. Later when we were in bed I told her that the I'm too fat remarks hurt me because she complains about it, uses it as an excuse, but isnt' really doing much about it. The I'm fat comments have gotten far to frequent (several a day), and is a convenient excuse for everything from swimming, going out, ML, etc. Anyway, I'm trying to avoid the that's OK, you're not too fat for me statements, because I don't think those statements are helping any. I don't think she believes me when I say them, but at the same time she is getting some validation for maintaining the status quo. Anyway, the I'm too fat comments have become her way of raining on my parade.
BTW, I sent you an email with more info on my trip to your state. I didn't want to put that detail in the public forum.
GGB, are there "undercurrents" from your wife during sex? Are you picking up a sense of martyrdom or something? I can understand you having some difficulty if that is what is going on.
Let me share a bit about my situation.
I'm LD, and have always been as far as I can recall. I have no deep hurts from abuse, I have no past bad sexual experiences to cripple me, as far as I can determine I don't have any emotional/mental disabilities that impact my sex drive.
Let me share some of what I have gone through over the past two years. I've read numerous books. I have had visits with doctors where I detail my difficulties. I have had several blood tests that all come back within the norm for the various systems that impact sexual drive. I have taken various herbal remedies. I have taken various "supplements" (up to about a dozen a day at one point). I have watched porn. I have read porn and other less explicit, yet titillating, material. I have thought sexual thoughts. I have tried to whip into flames the occasional twinges I do get. I have diddled myself. All trying to awaken or give birth to or strengthen what little sex I do have.
And at the end of it all - all I have to offer is my heart, my openness, my willingness to keep plugging away at it, my vulnerability, my occasional laughter and occasional tears at my inability.
What I can't offer is horny at any ongoing, detectable level.
I can't tell you how crushed I feel at times to read here and know that without the horny - it's not good enough. I have to take my fears of that to NOP. Although I get assurances and reassurances, underneath it all is a bruised spot in my heart that sings softly in deadly whispers that it doesn't count, it isn't good enough. If NOP had ever given me a whiff that he agreed with that, I don't know that I would ever fully recover in the relationship.
Sometimes there are those 'undercurrents'. Other times they aren't there or I don't notice. More often, it is a voice inside my head reminding me of things she has said in the past about sex not doing anything for her, and comments she's made about how far she's stretched or that I am insatiable. She hasn't read any of the books, she won't talk to her doctor about it, and generally won't look beyond herself for answers about it. She says LM should come naturally and she shouldnt need those outside things. She won't touch herself, finds it disgusting. Won't consider blue movies or racy novels (she skips over the sex scenes in books as well as R-rated movies). See, that would be OK if it was the way she approached everything, but it isn't. Other things, like scouts or quilting, for example, she takes classes, reads, surfs the web etc to gather as much info as she can about the subject. When it comes to sex or even relationship issues, that is supposed to somehow come to her in a dream or something. I think that is what bugs me the most, just the seeing her not put in the same amount of effort she does for less important things.
But, Mrs, don't you think this is comparing apples to oranges?
You have sex every day with NOP with a wonderful and fun attitude. You nurture that side of him which shows his love in sexy ways, as well as your own side. You are responsive to his overtures. You have made this a priority in your life.
Most of the LD spouses on this board haven't done this so when "it's not good enough" is posted--or even hinted at--I think it's safe to say that we simply don't know what we're talking about.
I don't know what it's like to be sexually satisfied, all the time. I don't know what it's like to have my husband respond nicely to my overtures with no hint of embarrassment or "that's gross". I don't know what it's like to have him try to bring out my sexiness, or even show signs that he's aware of my alleged sexiness.
Perhaps this is just me offering an excuse for a viewpoint that is unfair, I don't know.
All I know is that I am a compassionate person and I know the difference between a person who is giving his all and a person who is holding back. I can feel the difference. I have compassion for his fear of intimacy but I have no patience for it, is the best way to phrase it!
At any rate, your post struck a nerve with me and your point is duly noted.
MrsNop And at the end of it all - all I have to offer is my heart, my openness, my willingness to keep plugging away at it, my vulnerability, my occasional laughter and occasional tears at my inability. Sounds good to me, especially being a LDW and having sex regurally with your H. Too many LDW's (none that that post) won't do half what you are doing and that is why some of the sex starved H's here are so dissapointed. Effort counts big time.
RE HP All I know is that I am a compassionate person and I know the difference between a person who is giving his all and a person who is holding back. I can feel the difference. I have compassion for his fear of intimacy but I have no patience for it, is the best way to phrase it!.
I know in my case I can feel the holding back big time. It's like a persom who cooks eggs, bacon, and toast for his/her 20 lb overweight spouse and says "here is your breakfast Fat a$$"
I likes GGB post about his W reading all kinds of books for things she likes but won't read anything about sex or relationships.
Have you taken testosterone? Have you gone to a hard exercise routine. I have read the Bergman Sister Doctors and they seem to zero in on testosterone right off the bat. They want the women to get into hard erecise routines just so the women will start generating testosterone. And as far as I know, testsoterone is the ONLY aphrodisiac in the universe.
Lately, I've been letting the knowledge that she's participating in and even initiating sexual encounters for my benefit rather than because it is what she enjoys bother me.
GGB:
I struggle with this same issue and have a few thoughts to share about it with you. First, having sex with my LDW even when it isn"t "good" for her is better than not having sex with her at all. Second, if she is initiating it, and she has recently, even though it does not end up in her O, she is reciprocating for things I am doing for her outside of the bedroom, and I am feeling loved by her for realizing I speak the Physical Touch Language of Love. Please feel free to use this rationalization if it helps: Over the course of a weekend when we are together, typically I spend 6 to 8 hours doing things that she wants to like going shopping or to a party that one of her friends is having; or doing things for both of us like chores around the house or cooking our meals. In return, an hour in the sack is not really too much to ask for, and if she is willing and even going to initiate some of the time, I am going to graciously accept it.
My LDW enjoys kissing and snuggling. I try to do those things when we ML so that there are some rewarding "strokes" for her, even if she has no desire to O.
Mrs NOP, I understand that the high level of sexual frequency in your marriage is something that you and NOP arrived at together and that both of you are committed to it and that it is rewarding to both of you in somewhat different ways and for somewhat different reasons. But you both agree it is important and rewarding.
I'm wondering if this experience has changed you in such a way that if (God forbid a thousand times) you found yourself at some point in life in another relationship for whatever reason (again, God forbid), would you still want a high level of frequency, or would you (excuse the expression) relapse to your default condition of LD BEHAVIOR. I'm really not asking you to speculate on life without NOP, but I don't know any other way to ask the question... would you be higher D in another R after seeing and feeling the benefits of more sex? Or do you think this high frequency of sex is unique to you and NOP and is a function of this R alone and cannot be generalized to another one?
We have not been alone since August 2004, on our last date.
It was a nice time. At one point, we got on a ramp to merge onto the highway. Halfway down the ramp, we saw the hugest traffic jam--a wreck up ahead somewhere. We proceeded down the ramp, cursing our bad luck. Finally my H throws it in reverse and backs up the entire ramp, all the way up to the overpass. I was good-naturedly shrieking, I can't believe you're doing this!! and he replied, This is the first time I've been alone with my wife in a year--I'll be damned if I spend the 4 hours on the highway!
At one point, we were doing a little shopping and looking for a picture for our newly-finished (well almost finished) basement. I walked along the aisles saying, I like this one, do you like it? He would invariably say yes. I noticed that he was not pointing out anything that he liked, only agreeing that my pictures were nice. I even said Show me one that you like and he pointed to one that I had just said I liked.
This communication pattern has wreaked a lot of havoc in our lives, over the years. I am aware now, and always have been, that he has a hard time saying I want this or I like this. When he DOES say this, I nearly 100% of the time say, Okay!! because I'm so glad not to be runnin the ship all by my lonesome.
Therefore, we've gone on trips (most notably our honeymoon) that I knew were not good ideas but didn't want to "squash" his one time of speaking out. I've agreed to decorations in our home I don't like. Etc etc.
It's not that I think I should only have or see things that *I* like, it's that I wish we were able to discuss things without him feeling like I'm trampling all over him.
In a perfect world, he'd say I like this picture. I'd reply, I like the boat but I don't like the colors..can we look for one that has a boat but is not so gloomy? He might say back, No the gloominess is what I like. Or, Sure that sounds like a plan. Whatever!
Anyway, as we were walking thru the picture aisles, I felt an overwhelming love for him. First of all, because we were alone and this happens rarely. I realized that someday when our kids are older, H and I will have a much easier time of tackling any R problems. We both benefit from copious amounts of quality time. Secondly, I realized that his sexual style (don't say he desires me, wait until I start it and then say he likes it too) is the same way he approaches everything! I think I personalize it far too much. (yeah yeah, I know you folks are knocking your heads into your monitors and saying, are ya JUST now getting this honey?!) He would still benefit from ditching this style of communication but....it's not about me. It's not about him desiring me or not desiring me. Well it is, he's clearly the LD partner of us, but we have negotiated our way around that lil problem--it's the showing of the desire that we can't get any resolution on.
But it is easier for me to deal with this when I put it in context of the rest of him, kwim? He is like this in so many other ways.
I wish I knew how to teach a person to be assertive. Ah but that is the control-er coming out in me.
And, what's the deal with a person who can drive backwards up a down ramp, but can't reach for his wife?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
