I would like to propose a discussion of sexual desire/activity/frequency as a function of self or partner's weight/body size/body shape.
Several guys on this board have said that their wives are significantly overweight and unhappy about it. The guys still love them and want to ML, but the women don't. The question has been sort of raised, how much does a woman's comfort with her body size have to do with level of sexual desire? I would also ask, how much does a guy's comfort with HIS body size/shape affect his desire (or is his only concern the size of the E-- not being facetious, just wondering?).
When these women were skinnier (if they ever were) were they more interested in sex?
JJ's H makes no secret of the fact that he thinks he would want sex with her more if she lost more weight. What do you guys think of that? You already want lots of sex with your pretty overweight wives... if your wives lost weight would that increase your desire?
After my husband died five years ago (next month), I lost about 30 lbs. by mostly living on cheese and crackers and cereal. I had been someone who cooked every single night from scratch, and I could not face the kitchen... This brought me into the size 12-14 range that is considered "large" in today's world, but I looked pretty good... good enough to attract the attention of a 23-year old absolutely darling guy in my choir with whom I conducted a sweet, non-physical flirtation. Good enough for my bf to notice me when I went into his retail establishment three years ago to make a purchase. BF loves to cook and within a year I had put back on 20 of those pounds. He has never come out and said anything like what JJ's husband says, but he has let me know that he does not find me particularly attractive at this weight.
Fortunately, I've had other men in my life who have adored my body at many different weights, so I have a really clear sense that this is Him, not Me. Of course, HE is the one I'm with now, so the weight thing is relevant.
He, OTOH, is gorgeous-- a cross between Tom Selleck and Clark Gable. Great body (although about 15 lbs over what it should be, in his mind). When I first met him, I was extremely attracted to his body... but after three years, since we have not been stoking the fire, it has faded somewhat, although if anything he is better-looking since he quit drinking and smoking.
The longest R I've been in was my second marriage for 10 years (which was fraught with physical problems including but not limited to complete impotence, kidney transplant, leg amputation, hip replacement). The fact that you guys would still eagerly ML to your wives several times a week after 20+ years AND even after they have put on a lot of weight... this is beyond my comprehension...what keeps your physical attraction so high? I want someone to explain it to me. You may say, "Well the male (and JJ's) sex drive is just THAT high." Then you have my bf, and JJ's H, karen's, IHJ's...
I've forgotten my original question... Maybe it was why does one guy want to ML with his W no matter what and another guy say, first you have to lose 30 pounds and when she does, he says, now lose 20 more?
Comments on the general relationship between body size and sexual desire welcome.
Lill, for me it is for the close emotional connection more than anything else I think. FWIW, Mrs GGB was a too skinny 125 lbs when I met her. I'd love for her to get back to about 150-160 lbs, but I don't love her any less at her current weight. Yes, it is less appealing, but on the other hand, there is much more to her than the physical shell. We've been together for 20 years, 18 of them married.
I never really thought that my weight was the reason for my H's LD no matter what he said. If I had, I certainly would have lost the weight long ago. The reason I finally made the effort was I realized that it was a roadblock in resolving the issue as long as he could use it as an excuse and also it was a problem for me. Being overweight probably kept me just psychologically LD enough to avoid dealing with the problem. I was never overweight before I had kids so I had never had sex with anyone other than my H without feeling like I had a pretty hot body. Therefore, being overweight made me LD about the thought of having sex with anyone other than my H because I felt like I might be embarassed to be seen naked by anyone who hadn't already seen me. OTOH, my natural HD did compensate for my poor body image to a large extent. If it had been a couple weeks since I had sex, I could pretty easily convince myself that, for instance, my lush breasts compensated for my jiggly belly. Actually, I think my H pretty much felt this way too. For all his lame comments, I never got the impression from him while we were actually having sex that my weight detracted from the eroticism of the event. Of course, I really wasn't grotesquely fat. I'm a large woman and my weight distributes itself pretty evenly when it goes up or down. I was much more Rubenesque than Female Michelin Manesque. Also, I've never been really thin either. When I was a teenager at the roller rink, "Brick House" was the second most likely song to be dedicated to me. The first most likely, of course, being "Jenny 867-5309" .
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I think weight affects both how my H feels about me, sexually, as well as how he feels about himself. He does not think he has a sexy body because he is rail thin with little upper body strength. This is because he no longer works out. I still think he looks hot and am attracted to his body. I believe this causes what you were talking about, Lil, whereby he thinks I want to get off rather than I want HIM, cause who would be attracted to that.
He also likes me thin. He would never say he finds me unattractive at a higher weight but I can tell by the frequency with which he initiates--and the comments he makes, when he does--that he likes me thin. As you all know (no groaning!) he did not find me attractive while pregnant and the postpartum period was hard as well, until I got down to my current size, which is a size 8. Before having this last baby I was a 6 and I can guarantee that I'd get even more sex than I do now, were I to lose the last 5 lbs or so. Most of the time I am ok with this as it is nothing more or less than a personal preference for him. He does not make thinness a requirement, nor would he ever beat a dead horse about it. He just silently likes me thin and prefers me that way. And, quite honestly, I prefer myself that way so it's not a big stretch for me. The only time it makes me mad is when I hear about men whose wives are obese and they still find them irresistably attractive. Then I start to feel jealous and pissy that I have to maintain an extremely thin figure just to keep him interested .
Having said that, I think that the ideal situation--for the HP family--would be if H and I worked out together, or at least were simultaneously fit and muscular. He would feel good about this and I believe it would get his juices flowing, though I have never experienced it IRL. This is just my gut feeling. We have vowed to make this a priority, for the two of us, when our basement remodeling is finished and we can set our exercise equipment back up.
As MrsNOP has said, she often acts on small flickers and twinges of desire. I'm guessing that if one was out of shape, those flickers might happen but you would quickly talk yourself out of it saying, I'm too gross to be considered sexy.. And then the following thought, Oh he'd want me anyway. And then the next, He just wants to get laid, though.
So you've got a potentially hot situation completely derailed by negative thinking.
Anyway, I'm excited for MrHP to get back in shape. I think he looks great now but I know he'd feel a lot better about himself and more "worthy" of my attentions.
This really deserves a long answer, but you're going to get a short one. When we got married, W weighed somewhere in the 120 range and wore a 12-14. She started putting on the weight after a couple of years, but it was gradual. The only other time I can give you an accurate figure is when she was PG. When she first went in, less than a month into the pregnancy, she was 230lbs. She gained 6lbs. during the pregnancy. Since then she dropped to around 190~200 and has pretty much stayed there. She now wears either a 22W or a 24W depending upon the particular garment.
Like most people, she looks better when she’s thinner. But she was no less attractive to me at any weight.
Since I’m not her, I really can’t speak to her level of desire. All I can do is comment on the outward signs. W was at her lightest when we were first married. As you well know, for the first 11 years plus our sex life consisted of approximately monthly encounters where I went down on her and she (maybe) gave me a half-hearted HJ. IC began at her absolute heaviest. The most desire I have ever seen from her has been this past year. All of it at the 190~200 range.
Aside from some pregnancy weight, which she got rid of after a short while, my wife's weight has fluctuated from 120-130 lb. over the past 20 years. She is 5'6", so she is a pretty slight person. She has a body that most women her age would kill for, but she is really unhappy about it. She has been on a diet for a month now and was complaining how she hasn't lost any weight. I suggested that she really didn't have much weight to loose. I told her that she is already at a healthy weight and she should focus on increasing her excercise level, which would make her feel better anyway.
In my opinion, a poor body image is one of many important factors that contribute to her unwillingness to have sex. In the morning, before she has put on a bra and is in a topless state, she hides her breasts from my view and complains how ugly and saggy they are. I used to argue these points with her, but she doesn't give my opinion much credence in these matters.
In my personal experience, I did not try standing up for my issue regarding our lack of sex life until I lost a bunch of weight. There was something in me that said "Look at how fat you are! I can't blame her for not having sex with you." Mind you, she never brought it up to me as a problem. But when she sees obese people on TV or in public, she frequently makes derisive comments. So I've always wondered if she's been harboring feelings of disgust over my body (I'm no longer obese, but I'm still overweight).
On a related note, I just got done watching "The Wedding Singer" with Adam Sandler and Drew Barrymore on TV. My wife commented that it is too bad how DB gets picked on for her weight. Personally, I find her very attractive. It's not her looks, so much as her personality, especially in that role. There is something really sweet and winning that comes shining through.
Men are initially attracted to a nice pair of boobs, or a flat tummy, or (as in my case) beatiful eyes and a great ass . But in order to develop any kind of lasting attraction to someone, I think most of us find some aspect of our mates' personality is what really hooks us.
SM
BTW, to answer your question, I think that dress compliments your figure perfectly!
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
Another thought I had was that money or success or lack of it can have a similar affect on a man's libido as overweight or getting wrinkles can have on a woman's. Of course, this just reflects a certain sexism and there are plenty of men with poor body image and plenty of women with poor self image due to lack of success, for instance Choc's wife seems to feel this way.
The summer I was 20, I hung out with 2 other girls who were also attractive and HD. One of the girls was dating a kid from a very wealthy family and she would bring us with her to parties his crowd would be holding. In a weird way I think being a HDW was less of a liability in this social setting than in others because her boyfriend could never know if she was balling his brains out because she really liked him or she really liked sex or because he had a cool sports car which he kept in his underground garage.
I've read that some women subconsciously become overweight because they don't want to be desired just for their bodies or conversely because they don't want to be rejected for their personalities. Another thought I had was that maybe if a woman was overweight she would become LD because she wants to keep a certain desire balance in her marriage. She's subconsciously following the economic rule of scarcity. If she feels like her sexiness has a low inherent value, the only way to increase its value is to make it a scarce commodity.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Lil asked : sexual desire/activity/frequency as a function of self or partner's weight/body size/body shape. --------------------------------------- Desire is influenced by:
1. Desire/What I/she feel: My weekly preference would be one good ML session, one lets connect on an emotional level, and one quickie because something between us clicked. BB’s Desire would be about 2X to 4X a year, baring complications. Maybe her desire would be higher but too many little things diminish her desire.
2. Activity: My preference is full body contact IC with W on top to start with, lots of touching and kissing for 20 minuets. Then me on top to finish the 30-minuet event. BB wants to be on top, have as much stroking of her back as possible, not much IC thrusting, and not take more than 10 minuets for me to orgasm. The event is a back rub for her, a little sex for me, and hopefully some emotional connecting in the process.
Other positions that allow penetration and are not contortionist oriented, would be good/OK for me. BB has one and a half missionary positions. Her on top 80% of the time
I would like to do more eyes open type of things but BB does not play along. I do it anyway sometimes.
I would do clitoral stimulation digitally anytime or orally after a quick wash. BB used to be OK with touching there but shortly after my back surgery in 1981 it is a “don’t touch area. HJ would be OK. Anal is kind of a no go area. BB has no desire to touch her genital area except to scratch an itch or wash.
I don’t have to have BJ’s ( never had one, got licked once) and never would expect anyone to allow me to come in their mouth if that made them uncomfortable but that is not on her approved list.
3. What opportunities are available: Because of our differences, BB’s lack of interest in sex, and our timing differences, when I see opportunities, most of the time nothing happens unless I am persistent.
4. Body Size: Body size seems to be more a visual factor outside the bedroom. Sometimes I am not that excited looking at her body. I am sure BB would like a Tom Selleck / Magnum PI body but neither one of us would win a beauty contest.
For me, once I am under the covers and stroking her soft skin, the biological process kicks in and takes over. Feel and wanting to build that emotional connection takes over. The need to touch more body parts and to merge increases.
Big bellies and BB’s rolls of fat dampen the desire and cause a few position impediments, but the good feeling I get when stroking her smooth skin starts again and my erection and hormones urge me to continue. I especially miss the special, very intense feelings we used to share a long time ago, I guess I still feel that way a little or enough to try to have them again or what we do have, helps me to relive them.
The weight got this way over a long period of time so I have gotten used to it. We both do activities to lose weight and try to eat the right things. Portion control and eating too late in the day are still problems.
I see BB watching what she eats and see her working out, so the fact she is heavy is mitigated by her effort. When I see someone making an honest effort to correct something, they get points. I also see other women our age struggle with weight so recognize the condition effects many people and being heavy is not unusual. I have empathy for people with weight problems. I try to be realistic in what I expect others to look like.
----------------------------- how much does a guy's comfort with HIS body size/shape affect his desire (or is his only concern the size of the E ------------------------------ I am somewhat uncomfortable with my size during the day. I don’t go without a shirt. In bed my stomach flattens out and looks almost normal. I guess it is like a women that wished they had perky breast but have some sag when standing. When you lay down, no more sag.
My penis size did concern me at one time. Gradually I equated concern about my size, with the things I learned about women being concerned about their breast size. To many men, breasts do not have to be that big but women think men want or need big breasts to be happy. I made the connection, “If big breasts are not that important to men, maybe the size of the penis is not that important to women, provided there is sufficient firmness.
I also watched some sex shows on TV where women complained about pain during IC because the guy was too big. Gradually I got the point “bigger is not always better.” It’s the motion in the ocean, the emotional bond people develop, and it’s the match in equipment and desire that counts. besides, I have what I have and changes in equipment is not much of an option, I can slim down, tone up but thr "tool" stays. I am stuck with it.
------------------------- When these women were skinnier (if they ever were) were they more interested in sex? ------------------------- BB was 40 pounds lighter. And way more interested in sex.
-------------------------- guys would still eagerly ML to your wives several times a week after 20+ years AND even after they have put on a lot of weight... this is beyond my comprehension... --------------------------- Lil, what choice do we have? Go without? Find an OW who is heavy too (not too many ideal weight women that I see my age), find a woman that is thin and bitchy?? Go on the warpath and demand a W to be XXX pounds by a certain date? Have the mirror put in our face and have our faults held over our heads.
Just think like this: I like hot pizza. Yesterday it was hot. Today it is cold. Today I am hungry and the choices are cold pizza or bread. Cold pizza and bread are the only legal things I am allowed to buy at the store. I can look but can’t have anything else according to my contract. If I eat out, I violate my contract. If I pick up and smell other foods I am warned or punished.
So I try to warm up the pizza as much as I can. Sometimes it kind of gets luke warm. Some times the red pepper/imagination makes the cold pizza seem warm. I like to eat.
---------------------------- my second marriage for 10 years (which was fraught with physical problems including but not limited to complete impotence, kidney transplant, leg amputation, hip replacement). ---------------------------- Lil, You stayed with your H through all of his problems because of whatever reasons that meant something to you. I guess staying and empathy is built in to some people more than others.
In my case, I stay because of the history and work I/we put into the M. I give BB points for trying to lose weight.
I read the post of women on hystasisters.com that hate to be touched or have sex and have empathy for all women in that condition. I saw BB go through her cancer treatment and other medical procedures and imagine what I would be feeling if I had to switch bodies with her.
Its tough a lot of the time. I was hanging in there but as life goes on and feelings cycle up and down, I wonder if the pay off is worth the effort for me or BB. The more I apply what I read about in books and here, and feel should be things that make up a M, the more trouble I stir up.
Back to the weight and desire topic. If some of JJ’s attitude (from what I read here and imagine she would be like to live with, and her extra padding) about sex were to rub off on BB, the weight issues would be a minor problem. I also realize BB may feel bad about her weight no matter what I say, good or bad.
The problem I was having with BB’s weight was when the second roll or flap showed up caused by a little more weight, aging, and little exercise. So some extra weight is not that much of a problem for me but I do have my personal limits when a certain undesirable body style develops and nothing is done about it.
I am also aware of the pot calling the kettle black. I am not perfect and if I was I don’t expect others to be perfect. Even if I was much lighter, another person’s weight is beyond my control and I doubt I could influence then very much.
I had another long reply with lots of feelings associated to weight / sexual desire but lost the post.
Quote: Another thought I had was that money or success or lack of it can have a similar affect on a man's libido as overweight or getting wrinkles can have on a woman's.........She's subconsciously following the economic rule of scarcity. If she feels like her sexiness has a low inherent value, the only way to increase its value is to make it a scarce commodity
Good points JJ. I know the lack of money did lessen my drive around my back surgery time. No job, little income.
The woman making sex a scarse commody hits home. At several points in our M, I got to the point where the investment in time, emotions and giving was not worth the rewards.
There is a concept reward scheduel related to gambling and psychology. Also applies to training handicapped people in new jobs ot teaching daily activites skills.
It states to increase interest have a reward the subject choses, make the pay-outs random, ocassionally make the payoff big, make randon small pay-outs so people get some of the rush of a big pay-out. The longer the interval is between pay-outs, the more people want to be rewarded so stretch out the pay-outs. The problem is if pay-outs are too far apart, people lose interest. People also lose interest if they are over rewarded. (Over or under and especially the item considered to be the "rewarded" is an individual thing)
If you believe this concept is true to some extent, people who have less sex but want more are more motivated to try harder to have sex and value sex more, regardles of ones weight to a point, than people that have sex more often.
For Mr W and others I suppose this concept does not apply at a higher percentage as many people. I think it applies to most normal and HD people.
My problem is not so much associated with weight now. It is the too long interval and seemingly constant new/old problems coming up. sometimes the little reward is worth the effort. Sometimes I feel like giving up.
Jenny, Good point. I think my H's job difficulties of the last 3 years have made him think less of himself, less "manly", etc. and I'm sure that affects his overall feeling of sexiness or potency as a man.
I realized last night that I need to get over my pissiness about his preference for thinness but I am still letting it percolate in my brain. Any suggestions are welcome. I desperately wish he was a guy like OGLou who says Hey cold pizza is still good pizza. Unfortunately I know that when I was cold pizza, the sex was quite scarce in my home. Even now, I know that if I were to heat this pizza up more than it is now, he'd be way more interested. Right now, I'm at a point where I can eat freely, including an occasional dessert, and my weight stays constant. To get to the HOT pizza stage I would need to cut out the desserts and, well, pizza LOL and really crack down. I am frustrated with myself for not achieving this goal, as well as frustrated with him for being narrowminded about what is attractive.
. 
. But in order to develop any kind of lasting attraction to someone, I think most of us find some aspect of our mates' personality is what really hooks us.