I'm sorry I didn't follow your sitch for a while and just learned about the new incident, I thought you were doing better and better with him day after day.
Must have been hard for the kids seeing the drama like that.
Yes, he is crazy but it's true that both of you still need to talk and communicate on the matters of your children. Perhaps it's not the moment to talk to him in either way, I hope both of you may claim down and re-take your roles of parenting. When I read this, I feel sad for the children, your children, my children, why in this world we bring us there but unable to provide a peaceful home for them to grow.
Thinking of you Kitty
my last thread : Lost in his MLC
http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=957116&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
I can't talk to him. He's beyond talking. In previous years I have tried talking, we have come to an arrangement with the kids and then he backs out of it and denies we even arranged it.
I have tried mediation - first time he said no, second time he phoned up and bullied me out of going.
I hae tried letters from my lawyer - (100 plus letters in 2 and a half years, probably more. I have a living room cabinet just filled with letters).
We tried Relate Separation Counselling - it made things worse as she dredged up loads of bad stuff. We quit going after 6 weeks.
I have tried DB'ing techniques for 2 years - works to an extent but he misinterprets my attempts to validate as being a doormat so he thinks he can do whatever he likes, which is a problem.
I tried court (2 years and a total of about 10 court hearings) - he broke all my court orders and the court welfare officer backed him.
I've tried being 'dark' for a whole year.
I've tried just communicating by email - that doesn't work as he then sends me nasty emails. It's the same with the phone.
I've tried being 'just friends' and being 'civil' so the kids can come round here, but he can never do it. He says he can but then after a few weeks he either breaks down and says he can't be my friend because he misses me or he turns nasty like what happened last week.
I have tried doing the hand-overs through a third party. Always breaks down because the third party backs out or they are X's friend etc so nasty to me and there are still arguments about level of contact.
I have tried meeting in a public place but that doesn't work as most of the major outbursts are outside and in front of the children.
X was threatened by a judge with a prison sentance - even that wasn't enough to make him listen. He DID let me see them as the order stated for 3 months but he made my life a misery in the process.
I tried CPS - they just made matters worse and recommended X have them, largely bcause they were prejudiced about my disability. I had to launch an independent investigation into them and several of my complaints were upheld.
I recieved written apologies from CPS but the main officer involved in my case skipped the country to avoid investigation and now lives in New Zealand.
The Disabled Parents Network told me this happens to disabled parents all the time and the anti-discrimination laws in this country only came in in 1995 and there is nothing specific in the act which relates to parenting. I was told to challenge the Disability Discrimination Act of 1995 in court, but no one has ever challenged it before so I would be trying to make a precident in law and I honestly don't think I can take on something that big.
It's partly why I am going to be doing the law degree.
So as you can see I really have tried EVERYTHING. When I told him I am done trying to communicate with him, I meant it.
He would have to go to counselling and anger management before I would consider trying to talk to him again.
I hope you are in a decent place. Boy, you have had a lot of things happen to you lately. I just want to let you know I feel for you and I hope you get to calm waters soon. I wonder if you have any plans to get away from where you are and go visit some friends or something for a week or so. It may do you some good.
You are a wonderful, strong woman. I wish you well.
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
What a terrible sitch for you....at least as far as the kids are concerned. It certainly doesn't sound like there has been a lack of trying on your part. I've had some visitation difficulties with my ex, but never on the level you have faced. You've been a saint to keep plugging away through it all.
I don't want to be anti-DB, but unless by some miracle your X starts treating you with respect I don't know how you could even consider having him in your life. I know that seems bad, but you (like a lot of people on here) deserve better. Maybe over time when you've done the things with your life that you want to accomplish he'll see the light. But maybe you will have moved on by then.
Best of luck Jo. I admire the strength you've shown in not so easily giving in to his feeble attempts to apologize.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
No, I can't go away as there's no one that would have me for that length of time. I ocassionally stay 1 night with a friend, but never longer than 1 night.
At any rate, X was supposed to have DD4 again on Friday for a week so I can't go anywhere.
I have lost hope that it will ever get any calmer and feel a bit down today. Not so much about the R but more that I just feel completely trapped in this sitch and it's not like I ever will be able to get away from him because he is the father of my children.
People should think more carefully before they have children and they should DEFINITELY think more carefully about divorce once there are children there, because the impact is so bad, you're not able to parent as effectively and you are bound to each other forever so if you don't get on with each other, God help your children.
Since people are bound by their children, I don't know why they bother to D, it would be far less damaging to the kids to just work through the M than fight constantly for years in a post-D hell.
Spoke to my lawyer and told her what happened. I can't get a harrassment order or anything because of the child contact orders.
Apparently even if he'd raped me, they would still expect me to see him for the kids. She did say that causing a scene in public is illegal and that if he did it again the police could have him for 'public affray' (whatever that is).
She asked loads of questions about EX-OW and is astounded they are no longer together. I haven't seen her since the trial so I filled her in on the details. She told me to carry on keeping a diary of everything in case it goes back to court. I am saving all my posts on here.
She told me I should let DD4 go on the holiday with him, despite this, or he could have me in court for barring his access, even though I've already let him take her away once this month.
I told X the holiday was cancelled. He said he had tried to apologise. I said 'so you think a phone call will do it after that, do you?'
He asked me what I wanted him to do, then, if not a phone call. I told him there was no way I could trust him now and at the very least I want to hear the apology in person, I want him to tell me he's sorry to my face.
He agreed and asked where we could meet. I told him the pub on Friday afternoon and I said if he so much as upset me even just once, or failed to bring DD4 back, I would have him in court and bar all his holiday's with DD from now until she leaves college.
We got into this rather tense argument about the kids and the R (I know, not DB'ing) and I told him there is no reason for me to respect him when he treats me like this and that he has to accept I have a life outside him. He started complaining that I don't respect him because I wasn't bothered enough to call and ask where he was.
I said that is pursual and I am NOT chasing after you. He said it's different if it's about the kids. I said no, sorry, I'm STILL not chasing you even if it is about the kids. Why don't you just be on time for once in your damn life?
I told him that if it wasn't for the kids, we wouldn't see each other anyway, that he doesn't like me and doesn't care how I am so why pretend? I told him all the times he was civil he was just play-acting for the kids, because his outburst was proof to me how he really feels.
He got annoyed and said how many times do I have to apologise? Oh, a lot more, I was thinking, and I want a share in interflora, a year's supply of Cadbury's chocolate, �500 worth of new clothes and a boat in the south of France.
He started complaining that I never call him to ask how his life is going. I said excuse me dear, but you don't want me to call. We are divorced, remember? and when I used to call ages ago he didn't like it.
I said I'm keeping away from you just like you want so until you start making a genuine effort at respecting me I am not going to call and ask how your day has been!
He then changed the subject completely and started talking about my book and saying will I change the DD's names in it because he's worried the papparatzi (sp?) will hound them.
We got into another row over that because he wants them written with pen-names and I have written them up as their actual names, aside from Alicia where I changed the spelling.
He said he wanted to protect the kids from adverse publicity and what about if they make my book into a film?
I said yeah, that's great, isn't it? I told him my book was a tribute to my girls so they would know what I went through and why I'm not there and that it would be great to open a book and see our DD's names in it.
I told him that it could be a great opportunity for them and if it takes off they could get asked to do TV commericials and stuff If people know who you are, you get more opportunities in life.
He disagreed and said they would be hounded by newspaper journalists.
I told him he was just worried about his reputation and what the people at his home ed group would think of how he had treated me. He denied this.
I then said I had to go and I would hear his apology on Friday. I hope to get a free beer out of him also.
It seems as if I might be in for another big disagreement over the DD's being named in the book. The draft text layout is being done now, I'm not sure if I can change it.
I know it says in my contract if I make any changes after the draft has been approved, I have to pay for script editing by the publisher.
Oh well, I will think of a way to get round him. I have PR too.
I just read your last few posts, the sit. is very complicated, even more so because of the children. I feel your pain, I to will be tied to my childrens mother. It is so painful to watch and hear, she tells me too many things about her and seeing other men. It is the most disgusting thing to think on her getting it on with a convict, I want to run away.
Somehow though I will have to get over her and be able to ignore the OMen sit. I think when I am no longer hurt I will be able to communicate with her purely for the sake of the children with out resentment.
I hope in your sit. you can set some boundaries that will stifle some of his craziness.
I don't know if it would work, but in his case he is always late. Lets say you have him email you what time he will be picking up the girls, then you can email back saying the time is ok, however if you are more that x minutes late I will have to leave because I have an appointment. No threat, just point blank I have to leave by X time.
I have been setting money boundaries with XW, that seem to be working without a fight. In the past I was giving too much, gained no respect from her, so I became very resentful. I was vunerable to get sucked into an argument with her.
For an example: she asked me for gas money and if I could meet her tonight. I said not tonight, I am doing X, I will meet you in the morning and put on X $s worth of gas. This way she only has gas to get to and from work.
I am not giving any cash, she will ask for cash and I will say I am sorry I don't have any. ( I am not good at lying, plus I don't want to, so I just don't carry much cash)
My XW controls me by my fear of what she might do and I think Andy controls you this way too. However he is losing his grip on you because of your sucesses. I think his anger is coming from being jealous of what you are accomplishing.
Jo just keep plugging ahead, you are so amazing, I know that someday he will either be left in the dust or a miracle will happen and he will straighten up.
God bless you and your family, and hugs from Texas.
Jo, How are you??? I think pretty much everything Andy says is BS and personally, I don't think it's a good idea to see him for a drink. Wanting him to apologize in person is game playing IMOP and why bother. I doubt he's sincerely sorry and actions speak louder than words anyway. If he's sincerely sorry and respects you, then tell him to put his money where his mouth is and allow a fairer visitation with your girls.
He's angry because you're taking charge of your life and leaving him out. Good for you!!!! He no longer has power over you and is rebelling. Again, good for you!!! He's acting like a two year old having a tantrum.
You're smarter than him, more loving to DDs than him, more talented than him and more ambitious than him. Exactly, why do you want him????
I'm sorry, but I just feel strongly that not only do you deserve better than what he has to offer but that once you get out from under his "controlling" thumb, you will find someone worthy of you.
Quote: she asked me for gas money and if I could meet her tonight. I said not tonight, I am doing X, I will meet you in the morning and put on X $s worth of gas. This way she only has gas to get to and from work.
I worked a little for a welfare agency and this is what we did.
Voucher to one gas station (can't trade the gas voucher for cash) we worked with for X gallons (not dollars) of gas. Just enough to cover the distance the client "Had" to travel "to and/or from" a location. Client drove 50 miles to and from work in a week got 5 galons of gas if his car went 10 miles per gallon. No extra gas to go bar hoping, KWIM.
Quote: she will ask for cash and I will say I am sorry I don't have any. ( I am not good at lying, plus I don't want to, so I just don't carry much cash)
Change that to "I decided I won't give cash anymore!" You might add that you left her out of the budget you made for yourself. She can see through excuses (I don't have _______). Giving excuses cause a manipulator to work harder on you. Excuses also make you feel bad. Don't go there (you feeling bad) she can tell when you feel bad and will use it against you or try harder to manipulate you.
Remember in nature, killer wolves/dogs/cats atack the weakest animals first. Don't be weak around her.
Jo, sorry for the temp. hi-jack. I promice to never do it again (that is not until the next time. Do all guys lie a little. alot?) (Humor intended.)
I thought of meeting Andy because there is zero trust between us now and even if there is no R, there is the kids and I am not legally allowed to bar his access so we have to have some level of cooperation or we will just end up ripping each other's eyeball's out.
I decided not to meet him after all, though, as I am still a bit freaked out by what happened, so I sent him a text cancelling it and went to stay with my friend for 2 days.
He text me saying I can't keep running away. He tried to phone me twice but I cancelled his calls. He text me asking me not to cancel his calls and said 'we need to talk.' I switched off my cell phone.
Had a fun time with my friend, helping her with her wayward 12 year old S and 20 month old S, and my DD had great fun playing with them. It was boiling hot so we sunbathed in the garden and got the paddling pool out.
I did housework for my friend while she was at work.
When I came home this afternoon, there was a phone message from Andy, sounding rather pissed off because I wasn't in, threatening me with court as usual. I also found FOUR emails from him, 2 about not being a victim etc and 1 rather threatening about me not ruining the children's holiday and 1 asking what was going to happen with the contact now.
I responded to his 1 reasonable email with an indepth explanation as to my point of view. Here's what I wrote:
I stated via text that I wasn't doing this holiday because of what happened and in fact I never agreed to it as I didn't respond to your original email about it - you already had her for 8 days recently.
I originally thought I would let her go after you told me you'd booked it and even bought her a camping set to go with you, BUT I didn't bargain on the level of violence I was subjected to and quite frankly I am scared of you snapping and taking her, or hurting me, because you'd quit that behaviour about a year ago and I'd had no more of that kind of treatment from you and then suddenly you just flipped and attacked me, unprovoked, in front of our other children.
I honestly thought you were reforming your character and that you didn't do things like that anymore, and even after you 'left' me again this last time, I have tried to be civil and friendly towards you and acommodating to what you want with our dd - I agreed to everything you asked for an even invited you and the kids to her birthday and that is how I am treated. I feel like a doormat.
It feels to me that unless I agree to everything you say, never make any mistakes or have any misunderstandings or alternatively have sex with you to keep your temper even, that you just lose it and threaten me with court, intimidation or whatever.
You use court or threat of court as a beating stick and I am sick of it. You have serious control and temper issues and I think you're quite messed up, but I draw the line at you chasing me and threatening me with a very large car. That just isn't acceptable, no matter what the misunderstanding, and especially swearing at me in front of our girls like that. DD 2 was already in therapy. Do you really want to make her worse?
This is the main reason why I cut my own contact with them is because I didn't want them to put up with it anymore and I lost faith that it would ever get any better.
If you remember, I didn't actually deny you contact last week. I agreed to your weekend away provided you informed the nursery staff for me. I misunderstood the time as being 10am because I was tired and had a virus and I didn't hear properly. I got up early to get her ready for you and told her you were coming.
We waited nearly 2 hours for you and I thought you were angry at me for being ill and not being able to have the other girls, so I took her to nursery and intended to nap while she was there as I still didn't feel well.
When I came out of the school, I didn't see you. I had a fever and felt like death. The first thing I knew you were up in my face, swearing and cussing at me in front of the kids. And then all that stuff about 'parading them' in the nursery school because I'm non-custodial, well, that's emotional abuse of me and unforgivable since I didn't choose to give them up - you took them. That is why I turned away and carried on walking. I don't respond to threats. How do you think our DD's would have felt at being 'paraded' anyway? They are human beings and I'm sure that would have upset them as much as me.
If you had simply asked me what was happening and explained to me I had got the time wrong, I would have gone in there and got her back out for you.
I still said to you after that point that you could wait till after her session and then take her, so I still wasn't refusing your access. I would have let you wait at my home but you just kept using the F word, shouting about being late as if I am not even another human being, trying to trip me up with your foot etc. I was REALLY scared.
That is why I decided not to let you take her at that point and I DIDN'T ask to be threatened with your car. I genuinely thought you were going to hurt me or worse and I can't remember the last time I felt so afraid. I didn't think you could be responsible for our DD when you were already behaving so angry in front of the others, and in charge of a vehicle.
I was in a state when I returned home, thankful that DD was in nursery and hadn't witnessed that. She is a well balanced child because I did it on my own and she was too young to remember previous stuff you did like that. You keep telling me how much the other's are affected, I don't want it to happen to her too.
I had a friend round to console me and I am away with friends now to get my head together and try to get to grips with what you did as I haven't slept well since and keep jumping at every silver car I see.
I would be prepared for you to come round on her birthday and for all of you to spend the day with us as I have already invited you IF there is no intimidation, threats, mention of courts or physical/emotional violence.
Then you may have her in the evening (7pm onwards) until Monday evening, BUT if you do any of the above or try to retain her, I WILL pull your contact as I DON'T have to put up with domestic violence. I will only agree to holidays again etc once you have proved to me you will not use your temper against me as there has to be some level of trust and quite frankly, you have no understanding of trust.
Let me know if you all will be meeting us for her birthday treat or whether you would prefer not to join in.
I told him my book was a tribute to my girls so they would know what I went through and why I'm not there and that it would be great to open a book and see our DD's names in it.
(that is not until the next time. Do all guys lie a little. alot?)