JJ: the "unconditional love" quote is brilliant. Thanks!
The stupid thing is that she wants me to apologize for the hurt I have caused her by my conditions, before she will continue in the relationship. Ummm, isn't that a condition in and of itself? I pointed that out to her. She didn't like that.
Hairdog, you have already been through this kind of argument with her, and it's a no-win situation because her abandonment fears are being activated.
Let her know that you want to come up with solutions rather than going around in circles. Tell her it's not so much the sex as it is her lack of respect for your needs that's getting to you. Assure her you don't need a porn star, you want her, but it has to start from somewhere....and plan a schedule for some intimacy.
Has she addressed the "conditions" she has placed upon your marriage? Does she expect you to accept her conditions but she doesn't have to accept yours? Isn't marriage a compromise? Two people working together to come to a compromise of what each can live with?
Sorry you are having such a hard time right now. Did you even find out what happened at the C yesterday?
Quote: Tell her it's not so much the sex as it is her lack of respect for your needs that's getting to you.
Wouldn't this be kind of deceptive? I've always gotten the impression from HD that he really does care about the sex itself and wants specific sensual sexual things to be part of his life like boob handling and french kissing. Maybe I'm confused but isn't it more fused to want your spouse to respect your desire to handle her boobs than to simply want to have boob-handling in your life? The other night when we were having sex, my H said to me "You just like the sensation, don't you?". I didn't make a coherent response because I was enjoying the sensation but my thoughts were that it's not exactly true that I "just" like the sensation but I sure as hell don't want to do without the sensation in my life.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Gosh - I'm sorry that things remain so difficult. I'm not very impressed with your C right now. Are you? Do you feel that your concerns are heard and are being addressed in counseling?
Quote: I agree that the sensations are important, but a little bit of the right attitude can go a longgggggggg way and gives something to build upon.
I guess what I was really trying to get at was that sometimes it's better to keep the message simple. It might be productive if HD could convey "Let's not confuse the issue. You are leaving me because I want to have sex with you. Are you comfortable with that? Will you tell all our friends and relatives 'I am leaving HD because he wants sex more than 2x a year and icky tongue french kisses'?". Her position is unreasonable and somehow she has to come to see that.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Yes, you are right. I was thinking that in her LD mind, she may feel that Hairdog's sex-pectations are just over the top and she's doomed, when it's really more about having an attitude shift regarding recognizing his needs, and working from there.
Quote: when it's really more about having an attitude shift regarding recognizing his needs, and working from there.
Bingo. If she would just make more than a nominal effort in this area, I'd appreciate it. She says I keep score of the touches, kisses, hand holdings...it's not that I keep score, it's just that the touches are noteworthy because of their rarity.
I'm tired of begging for it. I'm tired of waiting for it. And I'm tired of being pushed away.
She wants me to "be comfortable with me saying 'no'", but even when I don't even go so far as to initiate, and I hang back for months, she "knows" that I'm not "there" yet. Because she is the judge, jury, executioner.
HD, She knows you are not there yet because you still want it.
Being comfortable with hearing no is the same as not caring whether it happens--in her book.
Personally I think it is the biggest load of horseshiit I've ever heard.
The day she becomes comfortable with you saying "No I don't think I'll clean the toilets for the next 6 months" then you can talk turkey.
My next message will contain something witty so that your mind is temporarily distracted. No sense in spending this lovely Thursday helplessly po'd at W today.
Btw, I drank a cup of reallllly strong coffee yesterday and it reminded me of smoking a cigarette. I wondered if this was part of the appeal of roasting your own beans...? That strength or 'bite' that is mostly missing from store bought beans.
