Get Out The Map

[Greeneyedlass]

arjnex,

I called it "fear" because I was relating it to when I'd do stuff that would unintentionally irritate my LDH....and I'd want to say/ask something but didn't. For me there was something stopping me from saying what I wanted to....it was as if my brain formed the words and was willing the words to come out, but there was some invisible barrier that kept the words from actually coming out my mouth.....you may not have that problem It was very hard for me to work past though....now I really have to concentrate on saying what I want to say in the moment....when it can really do some good rather than a day or two (or more) down the line when the impact is pretty much gone.

You're doing great!
GEL

[arjnex]

I think I just blew it. Big time.

This afternoon, we were going out to look for a new toaster oven, when I mentioned to her that I waould like her to give more consideration to everything I'd been talking about.

She said, "What do you think I've been doing? I've been trying to see somebody about my sleep, I've been reading, but I can't read any faster! My body is just not cooperating! I'm having hot flashes, I'm having headaches, I can't sleep, my foot hurts..." She then accused me of being like her father was to her mother: buying things for her just to try and get her to sleep with me. (I'm not. Really. Nor am I withholding vital things from her in order to get her to sleep with me, the way her second ex-husband did.)

Then I asked her, "Just tell me one thing. Do you want to resolve this issue? Because we can resolve your medical issues, but if you don't want to sleep with me, then that's something else again."

"I don't want to sleep with anyone," she said. (I presume she means "at this point.") Then she said, "Turn around, let's go home. This is feeling too much like my dad and mom."

I turned around. We went home in silence, and she stormed out of the car, slamming the door. I sat outside in the car for some time afterwards, trying to figure out what I did wrong. When I came in, the bedroom door was shut.

I'm thinking, now I've really blown it. She seems upset at me. But is it really bad, or is this something she'll have to go through in order for us to come out of this? Greeneyedlass, I hope you're out there, because I could really use your words of wisdom now.

- "A"

[honeypot]

A,
What DOES "give more consideration" mean to you?

What specifically were you referring to, when you said that?

I sometimes think the first step is in identifying what we want from our partner and then telling them in the clearest language that we possibly can. Otherwise you set yourself up for a barrage of guilt-inducing lists of things she is already doing.

For instance, if you would like for her to initiate hugs every day, then say "I would like for you to give more consideration to what I've been telling you. For instance, a hug from you--every day--would make me feel great."

Then allow her to decide whether this is something she can do or not.

The thing is...when everything is vague (give more consideration) then you will get vague answers in return. "I can't deal with this right now; it's too much like my dad and mom."

Asking for what I want is incredibly hard for me, for a variety of reasons. But it is the only thing that works. For some reason, vagueness on my part is translated into "she wants hang-from-the-chandeliers-sex when she says more consideration" in my H's mind. Then he gets defensive and excuse-prone and the whole thing goes downhill from there.

Try to think of what "giving more consideration" really means to you and looks like to you and how you will know it when you see it, and then go back to her and say, You know, when I was talking about consideration, I meant A, B, and C. Do you think that is something we can work towards?

Best of luck,
HP

[arjnex]

Disaster has been averted...and I think I know what needs to be done.

When my wife came out of the bedroom, she was saying things like, "I need to find someplace else to stay for awhile...I don't feel comfortable here...I'm failing again." Fortunately, we turned back from the brink. The way it looks to me now, I was wrong to push her so hard so soon, particularly when her health is in chaos.

So here's what we're going to do. We're going to work on increasing her health, dealing with her foot, her hot flashes, her sleep issues, her anemia. We're also going to work on helping her feel less socially isolated; this will likely involve finding things for her to volunteer at once she's healthy enough, since that's how she met most of her friends back where we originally came from. (The ballroom dance lessons I mentioned earlier will also have a salient effect in that area, in addition to the other advantages I already mentioned.) Until we can do that, we're not going to push the sex issue. I'm guessing it'll come back once she's healthy and happy.

I did say to her, "Just remember one thing: remember there is someone here who loves you, and needs you, and wants you, when you decide you want to." She said, "I've never forgotten that." I was happy to hear that.

And you know, this solution isn't inconsistent with the 5LL strategy...making sure she gets healthy and happy is one of the biggest Acts of Service I could perform for her.

So, we've got our work cut out for us. I may not be posting here for awhile, as our concentration will be on issues not related to sex. But I have my map now...and I think someone once said that the fun is in the journey, not the destination.

Thanks for the assistance, everyone. Sometime again.

- "A"

[CeMar]

arjnex:

Are you sure she is not LOOKING for excuses? I know from experience that a women will look for ANY excuse to avoid dealing with sex issues. There is always just one more thing to address before they can address the sex issues.

[Greeneyedlass]

arjnex,

Sorry I haven't responded sooner...I've been out of pocket a bit.

No, you haven't blown it...although I know you feel that way. She's being pushed out of her comfort zone...and she doesn't like that, you wouldn't like it either....but lets face it, nothing gets resolved by staying in that comfort zone either.

It's sounding to me like she has more issues than just her sexuality here. What does she mean "it's sounding too much like my mom & dad?" What is/was their M like? What was her past like with them?

I'm sure your W "feels" she's taking action, reading etc. BUT, really...if she's not willing to talk with you about the issues, she's still avoiding them. Reading is still safe....communicating isn't (as you are getting familiar with).

Don't let this discourage you from talking to her....behavior like this is really to be expected from her...it's fairly typical of someone who simply doesn't want to deal with the issues. She's doing the minimum to pacify you...she's not really facing anything down.

Let me put it this way....if she REALLY wanted to deal with these issues...she'd already have someone to see. I feel that her making the statement she did and calling your outing to a halt the way she did....was her way of putting an end to a discussion she wanted to avoid, very typical behavior. It's behavior we've all dealt with in one fashion or another.

My advice is to approach her...when she's calm, and you are calm....and ask her why she made that statement. Ask her if she can tell you why the situation reminded her of her folks. I mean all you did was ask a reasonable question. My next suggestion is this....find the two of you a MC....you find one, don't ask her to do it...she probably won't. She may respond much better (like my H does) to discussing things in a "safe" professional environment.

Hang in there arjnex, all is not lost.

GEL

[arjnex]

Greeneyedlass, my wife's parents' marriage was rocky, and ended in divorce. Her past with her parents hasn't always been pleasant, either; in particular, her father used to be a rather nasty person, until, some years ago, he had a severely-disabling accident and became a born-again. Now, he's nice enough to her, but can get a little preachy at times. Her mom has remarried, and appears to be much happier.

Apparently, what her father would do is buy nice things for her mother, and then expect sex in return. My wife's first two husbands treated her in exactly the same way. I am trying not to fall into that same pattern, as that's just going to get her upset again.

At any rate, while your suggestions are good, none of it is going to happen at this point, because she flat-out will not discuss sex-related issues while she's dealing with these health problems. Fine, so say we all. I'll make sure she gets through her foot surgery and recovery therefrom OK. I'll do what I can to help her find a psych to address her insomnia. Ditto to help her find a GYN that can do something about her hot flashes (possible HRT, possibly something else). And I can ensure that she eats plenty of stuff with iron in it to combat her anemia. (She tried some different supplements, but they killed her stomach, so she returned them. Maybe there are supplements out there that can give her the iron she needs without killing her stomach, but we haven't found them yet.)

Now, once those are resolved, she knows what my objective is. If, at that time, she's still unwilling to discuss the issue rationally, then I can take the steps you outline. Until then, though, it'd be just wasted effort, and might result in more talk about her wanting to leave. Not good for either of us.

I know all is not lost. It's just going to be a circuitous route to get there.

- "A"

[Greeneyedlass]

arjnex,

She is dealing with quite a bit right now, and so are you. With many of the things that you describe she is going through...she could simply be overwhelemed, and that in itself can kill ones libido.

One thing to keep an eye out for, and I think you already know this. Your W has already had a past where she's either picked men like her H, or unconciously orchestrated the R to where it was like her parent's (this is very common)...like you've already said, be very careful about not falling into that same behavior. Your W may not even be aware that she orchestrates the situations to happen, but it does often happen that way.

My H did this to me too :-) My H would treat me as he expected me to behave (as his ex's had behaved)...which would infuriate me, since I'm not those W and don't behave as they did. However, after some time of being treated as though I was going to behave a certain way...I found myself growing closer and closer to adopting the expected behavior. He was, unintentionally....orchestrating the end of our R...he was sending us down the exact same paths he had been before. Just keep your eyes open and see the warning signs when they are there

As you said...deal with things one at a time right now, patience is an integral part of dealing with what you have on your plate!

Hang in there!
GEL

[LostGal]

look up "lodge" cast iron cookware on the web, they have pre seasoned pans and dutchovens. the pan imparts a small amount of iron into the food cooked in it, and it is nice and even cooking.

there are so many reasons to be anemic[sp]. if her bloodwork doesnt improve with iron theapy, can i suggest a multiple mineral tablet and a trip to the dr for more blood work?

[LostGal]

OK...so AOS, I'm trying to get a more "animal husbandry" style of AOS. But all I'm able to get is a "Jeeves" Butler, handyman and even delivery boy. Try to get her to AOS for you personally, not the laundry and such but possibly a favorite meal something more tailored to your personal side.

A shampoo? maybe including scalp massage?...think she'd go for that as a place to start?

NO! Maybe you should give her a shampoo! an AOS for her so her appreciation level goes up and you have "cash" in the love bank. Hmmm going to have to try that myself!