I agree w/ Jo. I think AOS has emasculated me w/ DB, so to speak. All of that stuff I was doing for W at the house came off as pursuit IMO.
Lately, I've been attending to the K's and picking up the kitchen and living room when I'm there. That's it and it's a mess I helped make, so I'm just picking up after myself.
No more making the bed, or getting her coffee pot ready for the next day, etc. Just stuff that relates to the K's. I shot myself in the foot for months w/ that stuff. I was trying to 180, but now I know that it came off as wimpy and doing it to try to win her back. My actions were genuine, but W saw it as manipulative IMO. As a result, she lost even more respect for me.
I would love to get a booty call from W, BTW. But, I ain't gonna go down that road by my own initiative. Uh-uh! Dangerous road.
I don't do AOS for X at all - in fact I don't even talk to him unless he talks to me. I offered him a coffee once last Christmas when he was out shopping and was cold, but that is the only time I've ever initiated anything in about 20 months.
He left me so I feel really strongly that if he wants me back, he will make moves. If not, then not. I can live without him.
It does come across as pathetic, esp. if I were to run around after him.
If you're not there all the time and don't show so much interest, the WAS will make more effort.
I wish I would have learned that lesson about four months ago. But, you're dead nuts. (That's an American expression for extremely accurate) I haven't been acting as caring lately, except for genuine interest in some of her goings-on. I am not doing anything at the house except for picking up after myself and making sure it is known I'm doing it for myself. I told her last night, "I made the mess, I'll clean it up." when I was picking up the kitchen when she got home.
Not a couple of days after the "bomb" in Dec 03, the subject was brought up and she said, "you really want to? It would be weird. I don't want to give you mixed signals."
It appears once they've turned off emotionally, the physical is off too. I could tell something (in hindsight) was up before the "bomb." She became very distant physically, no hugs, no kisses, no touching.
I guess my sitch is different from the norm, then. My X got sexually distant for a few weeks before the 'bomb' but then after the bomb his desire was normal and mine sky rocketed because sex was a comfort thing to me and at the time it was the only time he was nice to me. So it was still about 3 times a week post-bomb.
When he moved out it dropped to once a week because we were living in different towns and you don't see someone as much if they're not under the same roof.
I had a new baby and we ML only 1 week after she was born. When she was 5 weeks old he said he wanted to get back together but then got scared again, so we had 3 months of abstinance and he started up the court stuff.
Then we DID get back together for 7 months during which time the ML was every day and more than once, basically any time we got chance when the kids were at school etc or the baby was asleep. It was like a sexual revolution to me as it was tons better than it the marriage and we did loads of stuff we never did in the marriage.
Then of course the same thing happened, cold feet, so then we had a whole YEAR of abstinance after which point he changed his mind again.
This time around it's been 2 months of abstinance but when he says he wants me back again, which he will, I am saying no.
I'm going to try out the 'no' approach this time around and see if that is more effective.
Interesting subject going on here! hhmmm! sex & talk
My sitch was similar to Jo's. At time of bomb, ex was totally distant. I heard comments of 'that's not going to fix anything' and 'I don't want to just use you'.
Then when he started the div proceedings, he wanted to and I didn't. I finally gave in around the holidays. (a year since bomb, and 5 mos from being served) After d-day; I still had interest in sex, but that would only confuse him, always asking if I was 'ok w/doing this?'
I don't know if this will help since I am also a LBS, but I was at the point of WA during the div proceedings. What changed it around was a truce we called. Basically, when we stopped arguing constantly, I let go of my anger and my feelings for ex started to come back. Only then did his AOS mean more to me.
Sorry to interrupt the sex talk on my thread! But I have an update I need feedback on.
Since coming back from NM, I've felt compelled to do some limit-setting. Told you about the work stuff already - minor, W still somewhat sore but likely respecting me a bit more. Today, I told W she still needed to do a quick claim form releasing her from any rights/responsibilities for the house. This was due w/in 1 mo of being bought out ~ April 25th, and here we are at June 30th and still not done. I told W it would cost (whereas my mortgager would have done it for free then).
A bigger issue was when I told her that I wouldn't be helping her to pay for more summercamps for S5. W told me yesterday, she had signed him up for 2 more, w/ her mode of operation being to do something, then "split the cost" with me by taking it out of her rent due me without my official okay. As she has no official duties right now, and as according to our divorce agreement, her role as primary residence parent includings the responsibility for any childcare costs, I feel no need to enable her pursuit of absolute freedom. Since our S/D, I've paid over $1000 for afterschool care/summer care, but realized yesterday that she would continue to dish him off to others rather than parent fulltime. My main concern is S5's welfare, with the recent fondling event in afterschool care (May 2) and of the babysitter setting a fire in my house (June 6) being a message to me that no one does it better that Dad or Mom.
I noted to her that I was puzzled by her choices, as I had been attacked by her during the D proceedings for not letting her be a mother (she had to work while he was still an infant), and yet she was choosing to be away from him now.
I'm feeling within me no fear about losing her. In fact, I think consistent boundary-setting will be the theme with W, as I was way too passive and acquiescent to her demands in our M, if only to keep the peace. This is going to be rough, yet I hope it buys more respect from her in the long run. Paying for her maid service and yard care ($126/mo) hasn't earned an iota of respect from her, in my eyes.
Gave up coffee ~ 2 weeks ago today. Feels great - much less of the jitters/anxious thinking I was experiencing before. But maybe I'm a bit grumpy?
I know that I need to pick my battles, and to be unconditionally loving, but I also feel that I need to keep some boundaries in place.
Dude, I'm guilty of letting things go to keep the peace in my M also. I need time to think this through, but I think you definitely need to have a discussion about better communication in regards to S5, particularly when it costs you money.
My W is the residing parent, although we have joint custody Thank God, and it seems to me that she behave similarly to your W. The K's seem to get watched and spend a lot of time w/ other people, mostly MIL/FIL. W bought S5 a Nintendo b/c he wanted one, but I suspect it was b/c she needed something to "babysit" him.
Same situation with my WAW. D3 stays with her overnights (I decided this because I dont want D3 to experience the instability of staying in two places and she needs her mom more than she needs me at night). But we co-parent. When WAW has her she tries to spend the time with friends or acquaintances (so the parenting is not heavy). When I have her (this is the case for men I think, we cant just call a buddy and say, "hey wanna get kids together and hang out?")I give 100% os time to D3. I have let the WAW take advantage of me financially for the past two years. And boy, has she spent money lik crazy! Typical MLC stuff. And she is not a wee bit thankful or anything about my being generous with her about money. Sometimes I feel so used.
I dont know Gabe, If your purpose is to protect S5 and tell her that she is wont to take umbrage because she may feel that you are questioning her mothering instincts and skills. On the other hand, if you let her know that you are hard-up on money now and cant afford it, then she may question whether you have changed (I recall vaguely that money was an issue with you guys). As usual it is a tight situation. You may want to think about what reason you want to present to her.
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
You said a lot about what you did and why, but you didn't say how W reacted to this convo? Is this negativity internalized on your part or is it something to do with the way she is reacting to you also?
Give me details from both sides and I'll try to advise.
I finally gave in around the holidays. (a year since bomb, and 5 mos from being served) After d-day; I still had interest in sex, but that would only confuse him, always asking if I was 'ok w/doing this?' 
But I have an update I need feedback on. 