Ha! My thoughts exactly, Jo. It'd result in a big bop on my nose! maybe later tho....
How about more recent actions that softened you toward him (even tho you're the LBS, your view is very valid cause he's still a guy and you're a women. IMHO, the some of the pattern will be the same).
UD, thanks for relating about your sitch. I think the patience issue is big. For me, the only way to help shut off the crazymaker is to realistically acknowledge the great amount of time it will take for both of us to change in a lasting many - sad to say in some ways, but 3-4 years sounds about right.
I'd like to chime in on UD's timeline of his sitch with a story about my parents. My father remarried to my stepmother (Mom) when I was aged 3 and they got divorced when I was 11. During that time, the relations between them were very frosty and only contact was about me [holidays, family time...etc.]. Things got gradually warmer between them over 2 years until one night Mom just called Dad and asked for sex outright! Dad said that after that incident, they started talking more and more. They eventually got back together for several years. Unfortunately, they finally split for good when I was about 34 after I graduated from grad school. The main reason for the final split was because of MOTS behaviors on their ends.
Hmm...sex before talk (There, that settles the chicken and egg question once for all, folks )
Just interjecting, Wonka, who was the LBS in that case? I am just wondering if I should just pick up the phone and ask my WAW for some service? God knows I could use some . Woohoo..
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
It was the sex that initiated the talk. He even sent me text messages asking to come over and ML with me.
This time around I didn't initiate any sex or R talks but a previous time we dated for 7 months (after separation) and during that time I did initiate and I have asked him for sex on the spot but you have to know your WAS well enough to know you can get away with it.
I am going to guess that in the case where the LBS is the man there is no way the sex before talk scenario can occur . Hmm...but then there is Wes...An exception to every rule, huh?
Uday
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
1. Text messages to ask how I am and what I'm doing.
2. Text messages to tell me what he's doing. One message he wrote was 'I'm at a market getting presents for the kids and it's freezing.' - that's all he put, I thought that was sweet so I invited him for a coffee to warm him up.
3. Chatting to me for 2 hours etc, let me know he liked my company.
4. Looking after the kids whilst I went to see the doctor and when I got home, the lights and heating were on and he had fed all the kids and was cooking my dinner. I was SO impressed.
5. He rang up this cell phone company I was having problems with and yelled at them on my behalf and 2 days later the company sent me a new phone.
6. He remembered our wedding anniversary even though we were about to be divorced.
7. He expressed worry when I told him I was going to Cyprus, and he asked how I would manage at the airport. This might offend some people but I thought it was caring. He phoned me while I was on a train and asked if he could come over for Christmas of course, I said yes.
That's when the sex happened and then it was basically 'erm, Andy, why did we just do that?'
Probably doesn't help you at all as I am the LBS, but they are the things that impressed me.
It depends how much the WAW wants sex, though, whether she is still 'in love' or whether she'll take advantage! Some women will ask for sex even if they've left but I reckon it's more unlikely.
Also, I reckon it's R suicide to initiate it yourself, as a male LBS.
In my case, Mom was the LBS and Dad a WAH with a short term fling with an OW. I think Ioavva is on to something about the male LBS just asking outright for sex to a WAW---it wouldn't fly at all!
Ioavva, thanks for the tips on how you felt connected with Andy. I am going to use those ideas myself. Monitor and experiment!
Yes, I agree that if a male LBS were to do the "wink, wink, how about it" move with the WAW, serious injury to the R as well as to some key body parts may result. I wasnt recommending or planning such hara-kiri, I was just kidding. For sure, for the male LBS the chicken comes firmly before the egg.
Regarding Jo's excellent insights on what works for her though, I am confused how one distinguishes these AOS moves from pursuit? I don't know if a WAW would take kindly to such display of interest in the R from the LBS. I dont think it would work?
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
I can tell the difference with my WAH though because when he's in 'off' mode, he will do an AOS, e.g, fix my computer, he'll chat politely and maybe accept a cup of coffee, and then he'll leave, promptly.
In between times, he never calls or emails or has any contact, even if it's about the kids and he can be totally silent for up to 5 days at a time.
In his 'on' mode, he does the same AOS but he notices my appearance and my clothes, he will compliment me. He comes up with reasons to hang around longer and he'll start texting and emailing about pointless things, so then I know he's interested.
That's the difference, but I think my experience still doesn't count as I am a woman and he left me. I would never leave a marriage unless I was being beaten or raped. I feel really strongly about the sanctity of marriage and the promises that are made.
maybe later tho....
Dad said that after that incident, they started talking more and more. They eventually got back together for several years. Unfortunately, they finally split for good when I was about 34 after I graduated from grad school. The main reason for the final split was because of MOTS behaviors on their ends. 
. Hmm...but then there is Wes...An exception to every rule, huh? 
I wasnt recommending or planning such hara-kiri, I was just kidding. For sure, for the male LBS the chicken comes firmly before the egg. 