Hi Gabriel- I read quite a bit of this and Bulldogger's thread, catching up and learning a few things about creating mystery, getting some space, getting clear with boundaries, and staying the course. You both seem to be doing well. And you have what, about 5 more days before W returns? Remember to keep expectatiosn low, that wya you will be pleased with whatever you see...Making PMA easier, right?
I would love a male perspective on my thread if you have time.
Thanks for your posts! I'm back! It was a very nice trip. S5 just ate up his time with me, copying/shadowing me, hugging/kissing me, telling me ILU. It was nice to share great times with him. No horses, had 2 failed balloon ride attempts (too much wind), but worked in dinosaurs, camping, hking, tons of swimming, much with my parents, but some alone. At one pt, I had to carry him on my shoulders for 2 miles at 10k elevation, and I impressed myself with my fitness/ability to do so.
Found my crazymaker going a bit over there, especially when W was abrupt/almost rude on the telephone w/me upon her return to FL from Hawaii, at one pt asking me about a CS check in lue of visiting. I felt her warm (slightly) as the week went on, and she proudly shared her adventures with me.
I'm fascinated that she chose activities that she knows I enjoy and that I mentioned getting back into (camping/hiking/surfing). She went surfing 1x there and talked about it.
I brought S5 home to her tonight late. W was up, and explained how she had worked all day yesterday and today, and went to a movie alone last night (curious how she noted that too). W was complementary about our activities, and appreciated some bracelets and necklaces that S5 and I brought her (small but nice). She had some pineapple and a t-shirt for me from HA. When S5 demonstrated his ability to read to her (only 2 wks of tutoring from me, when she had the reading program for 2 mo and didn't get him thru the alphabet) and heard about his swimming prowess, she seemed pleased. When she said with empathy, "Oh, now your time together is over", she added quickly "But I'll but you want a break, huh?" I killed an urge to say "W, I'm a fulltime Dad/familyman allowed only parttime status" but I merely kept silent.
I was able to do some GAL stuff for myself while away - basic eating right, running, reading, prayer. Even gave up coffee as an experiment (HUGE for me) - going on Day 10 now. But its good to be home, where I can hit it at full tilt. I'm soo excited to be in full summer mode: writing, and GAL stuff. Hurray!
To be honest, at my return, I saw the same ol' W. Very young, immature or insecure - mentioning her grad student (10-14 yrs younger) as a great friend, leaving me to wonder if she'll change soon enough (before I quit). I also saw lots of downplaying, like she was projecting her internal judging on to me. She looks tough - I weathered fulltime single-parenthood and overtime work and travel with a child better than she seemed to her singleness. Maybe she was partying very hard?
A recurring thought - this is going to be a longterm sitch. I saw many women turn their head approvingly my way during my trip - with S5 and without him.
Yet, I will press on in part b/c S5 shared again his desire for a family back together, and b/c I can still recall the woman with whom I fell in love. She's there somewhere, and with consistent hard work and some divine intervention helping her to do her work, she may just come back better than ever, as I will be.
Good to see you back in the netherworld. I hope you and S5 had a good time and I am sure it was great bonding time for the two of you. I have done several trips now with my D3 (starting from when she was D2!) and while it is always hard to manage all on your own it is also very satisfying in the end. My D3 and I end up getting closer after the trip.
Regarding your post:
" I killed an urge to say "W, I'm a fulltime Dad/familyman allowed only parttime status" but I merely kept silent." Good move. Silence under such circumstances is best. I have been there several times. Feels like a stake through the heart.
"To be honest, at my return, I saw the same ol' W." - yeah, one trip aint gonna cut it. I have not seen any effects of such independent shenanigans from my WAW either.
" Very young, immature or insecure - mentioning her grad student (10-14 yrs younger) as a great friend, leaving me to wonder if she'll change soon enough." - Not soon enough, Gabe, but hopefully eventually. I tell you, that 3-4 years timeline is highly realistic, especially for MLC-WAWs. BTW, my WAW has also developed friendships solely with singles. She has tried a whole gamut of them. Female day-care-workers in my D3's daycare- that did not last long, nothing in common with those girls. Then male single coworkers of hers, including one EA. Then a married with kids female coworker but that seems more like a rocky, business-like R. Now, lately she is hanging out with a F-coworker who is here visting, I dont know if singele or not. You get the point- these are transient relationships. First, married, 30-something people are too busy to be readily available to do things with WAWs on the drop of a hat. Second, MLC-WAWs want to recapture their youth and hanging out with much younger/unattached people gives them that outlet.
"I also saw lots of downplaying, like she was projecting her internal judging on to me." - I don't understand what you mean by this Gabe, could you elaborate. Your WAW is so similar to mine, I want to know what this is.
"She looks tough - I weathered fulltime single-parenthood and overtime work and travel with a child better than she seemed to her singleness." - Oh yeah, my WAW always looks quite run down, she even admits to it on a frequent basis. Things like "I have all I can handle" and such. This is actually quite close to the truth, for people in MLC (BTW - a great read if you want to gain insights into MLC is Peter O'Connor's book - Understanding the midlife crisis). On of my friends' WAH who had an MLC (now piecing their marriage after 2.5 years and post D) told her "he feels enormous pressure". The key is to keep GALing and looking happy and fine. The same WAH above said that one thing that struck him when he was initially trying to get back was how good his LBS looked when he saw her. And my friend says her WAH looked like death when he came back. He had several solo trips across the country, one abroad, connected with all of his old friends again (pre-M) whom he conveniently dropped after they started reconciling. All part of the process with MLC.
"A recurring thought - this is going to be a longterm sitch." - Oh ,yeah, again the timeline for 3-4 years depressing as it may seem is quite appropriate.
Good to have you back. We missed your voice on the forum.
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
Just thought of something you posted on bulldogr's (?) thread about finding out how two local reconciled coupled did it? Would really appreciate posting it on your thread or on the thread on piecing after D that JJ posted last week. I have one case of my friend who also reconciled post D and I can ask her for a sketch of her sitch as well and will post. She did not DB in fact and was quite a wreck but things eventualy turned around for her.
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
Quote: "I also saw lots of downplaying, like she was projecting her internal judging on to me." - I don't understand what you mean by this Gabe, could you elaborate. Your WAW is so similar to mine, I want to know what this is.
Good question. W has struggled with depression and low self-esteem since I've known her. She is incredibly rough on herself in terms of negative self-talk - usually had a running litany of it during our M. Unfortunately, she would claim that I felt that way about her as well - not liking her, judging her as a failure, not beautiful/intelligent/sexy - and my compliments and reassurances rarely made a full impact on her and often were discounted. A rough place to be.
Thru DBing, I've found that improving my listening skills has helped. Such as merely empathizing with her pain and frustration without agreeing to her negative view of the world, and DEFINITELY not trying to fix things for her or point out solutions. I have been reassuring some still. Such as in my last day in NM, when W commented on trying to get her 'chopped up' hair done again, and having it cut up 'worse' and having highlights turn her hair bright burgundy (does look quite reddish), I pointed out, "Your hair is so amazingly beautiful naturally, so maybe its hard for a beautician to improve on that." W has not been responding to my compliments (no 'thank you's) but has been quiet after, as if thoughtful.
Went for a run this morning. Weird to say, but the humidity felt great. It was nice to really get drenched in sweat again. The desert wind truly sucked away the moisture as I exercised in NM.
Good on you for holding your tongue. BTW, I think your expectations are too high. She's not going to change suddenly because you went on holiday.
I lived in Florida for a while whilst separated and it didn't make a difference to the sitch. He was the same Andy when I returned - although he did say he missed me and followed me round the house like a puppy.
I also think that you sometimes come across as a bit judgemental to your W in your posts and I wonder if she feels this? Don't take this wrong, but maybe this exentuates her low self-esteem.
I just get the impression there is a competition going on between the two of you and some of your reactions about S5 remind me of Andy (not that I think you would run me over with your car ).
Re her younger friends, it isn't age that counts - it's what's in your heart and if you have a kind heart it doesn't matter if you are 5 or 90.
My best female friend is 41 this year (13 years older than me) and I am also friends with her MIL and have tea with her sometimes, and she's 85! I consider her one of my friends even though she was born in 1920.
I have spoken to some 14 year old's who have more sense than 30 year old's I know.
Sorry for the slight lecture but as a woman, it came across as you thinking you are better and more sensible than your W.
X does it all the time and sends me all these emails on 'personal responsibility' - it's SO patronizing and makes me want to print off the email and shove it up his arse
You make some good points there. At times, I find myself at a loss for words, and W has interpreted this in the past as me being silently judgmental. I just have a hard time with certain things that she presents.
For example, in March I mentioned that as soon as I could teach S5 to swim, I'd start teaching him how to surf. W goes out once in her life, and notes that her 24 yo GF/student would teach him. Just occasional cuffs to the nose that sting with the message "I am with her" (not sure how yet, likely just having a pursuit of youth, as UD says), and "We'll have fun with S5 without you."
There is definitely a competition thing going on, but not from my end. I'm confident in what I can do and offer, and I know that I'm not replaceable in S5's life. The reality is that this young friend will be out of her and S5's life very soon, and its merely a wish on W's part.
This 24 yo is not as wise as your 14 yo acquaintance. She reminds me A LOT of W at that age - impulsive, overly assertive, and full of confidence - all things that W admires, and maybe wants to recapture.
From a positive angle, perhaps she is trying to connect to me, or merely display some initiative?
BTW, my WAW has also developed friendships solely with singles. She has tried a whole gamut of them. Female day-care-workers in my D3's daycare- that did not last long, nothing in common with those girls. Then male single coworkers of hers, including one EA. Then a married with kids female coworker but that seems more like a rocky, business-like R. Now, lately she is hanging out with a F-coworker who is here visting, I dont know if singele or not. You get the point- these are transient relationships. First, married, 30-something people are too busy to be readily available to do things with WAWs on the drop of a hat. Second, MLC-WAWs want to recapture their youth and hanging out with much younger/unattached people gives them that outlet.
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