Quote: I wonder why you keep rationalizing and defending his use of such disrespectful language?
I think what I'm really doing is doing a lame job of explaining why his behavior didn't upset me in such a way that demanding an apology would have been appropriate. All I can say is that it was a matter of context. He was obviously in emotional pain when he said this and therefore I felt more compassion than anger.
In another situation, for instance if my H walked in the door and said "Where's my dinner, you c*nt.". I would find his language totally disrespectful and I would feel like I couldn't possibly accept that kind of behavior in my relationship.
Perhaps I'm not explaining very well but given the context, it would have been emotionally dense of me to demand an apology because it was very clear that my H was appalled at his own behavior.
The point I was trying to make about "deal breakers" is that maybe it's hard to know ahead of time what your's are. I really don't think I'm someone who would stay in a relationship no matter what, I can pretty easily imagine being reasonably happy as a single person at this point in my life and I'm not a masochist, but the events of this weekend just weren't that upsetting to me.
Actually, the one event in my marriage that I feel should have been a "deal breaker" was when my H refused to give me a hug when I asked for one when I was grieving my father's death. I was just too weak at the time to do any "deal breaking". My H has given me sincere apologies for this behavior and I have gone some way towards forgiving him but there is still a seed of bitter grudge within me. In fact, just thinking about this event makes me wonder why I bother working on this marriage.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: And if you're musing that if someone like me were to pair up with someone like CeMar....if his attitude were the same as CeMar's, I wouldn't go near him that would be an instant libido killer for me.
It seems to me that there is actually a lot of passion of some sort in your relationship with CeMar. I can kind of picture you guys in a sort of "bad boy dips the girl's braids in the inkpot and makes her furious but then she secretly likes it when he kisses her on the playground" type relationship.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I think I really need somebody who speaks "LDese" to translate my H's behavior for me. Since our big blow-up this weekend, we've had sex 3x. Twice on evenings after he's worked long hours.
I have two theories:
1) I finally said something that clicked with him during our fight this weekend and he realized that I am no longer going to accept any form of "blame" for his LD so the ball is squarely in his court and he's taking action.
2) He is currently dreading the thought of asking his doctor for a testosterone test more than the thought of regular sex. He recognizes that getting a testosterone test is something I might reasonably expect him to do and therefore if he would rather just go ahead and have more frequent sex than get tested he has to recognize that that is a reasonable expectation also. Kind of like a 5 year old who's tummy-ache suddenly disappears when his mother says "Fine, you can stay home from school if you're sick. Now where did I put that cod-liver oil?".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I can see how you might get that impression off the BB, I don't see that one myself. In RL the CeMAR-ish men that I run across....I avoid. On this board, true he frustrates the he** out of me, primarily because I see him making the same stubborn mistakes my Dad has/does make in my folks M....I've seen this for a long time now....so I have attempted to try to help him, which only ends up in more frustration.....I'm pretty much at the end of my rope with him though. Sexually speaking, I wouldn't go there....men like him would definitely not be someone who would attract me.
Well, JJ, now you know another one of your H's sex motivators...along with fear of abandonment you can now add fear of humiliation. Once again, he tried to turn the tables and humiliate you with his use of the c*** word, and I can see how standing by and allowing him to process the shame of his actions could have more effect than reacting.
The problem you have is keeping the SL going on a regular basis without having to resort to negative motivators like threatening to leave him or making dr appointments. I suppose you could have a male friend dress up in a white coat and come by for a house call when needed, or dress up in a biker outfit with a motorcycle parked ouside ( license plate Hank, of course) but eventually he needs to figure out some positive motiavtors( I love Jenny, I want Jenny happy, sex is good for us, etc).
I really didn't have the intention of trying to get my H to get his testosterone checked. The subject came up just sort of as an aside during one of our arguments and my H seized on it as a shield or delaying tactic or something like that. However, I do think he may be regretting that move now that his appointment is looming. Though I wasn't forcing the issue, I do think it is a good idea since low testosterone symptoms are so close to dysthymia symptoms. I also think it's possible that he may have some sort of adrenal disorder. It's kind of weird to me that a 41 year old man can eat about 4000 calories of food in a day and be skinny as a rail. Also, I am insisting that he get a referral to see a dermatologist because there are new treatments for eczema which he hasn't tried and I'm sure any improvement to his skin would improve his general "touchability".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
FYI....My H eats constantly and is also skinny as a rail....45yrs old, I belive he must consume something close to what your H does as well. However my H's eating habits really are pretty poor...he doesn't eat on a regular basis, eats ice cream every night right before bed, drinks beer fairly regularly (no not an alcoholic)...favorite snack is popcorn or potatoe chips etc. All of his tests came back with him perfectly normal though....which was in a way kind of frustrating....I think I had built my hopes up that we'd find something we could treat that would magically cure our problem.
I understand your willingness to put up with his language and temper in this context. There was a brief period of time when my H did the same (though he didn’t and I cannot imagine him using the C word). This was at the height of our confrontational time, about 8-9 months ago. Since that time, things have reached the level of a heated discussion once or twice, but we are otherwise living in harmony.
What disturbs me about your situation is that you seem to be constantly in the “crucible”. If I remember my Schnarch correctly, that is an indication that one or both of you (likely the latter) is unwilling to face their real issues and differentiate, which is the only way out of the crucible (if you want to stay married).
Quote: What disturbs me about your situation is that you seem to be constantly in the “crucible”. If I remember my Schnarch correctly, that is an indication that one or both of you (likely the latter) is unwilling to face their real issues and differentiate, which is the only way out of the crucible (if you want to stay married).
This is what disturbs me also. It is absolutely exhausting to be in the crucible all the time. Of course, I would love to think that I am fully differentiated but I am more than willing to admit that I'm not and if anyone on this BB could point out to me the leaky holes in my little boat, I would be most grateful. It's difficult for me to figure out what the difference is between not being differentiated and having dependency issues. When I joined this BB there were three concrete reasons why I didn't want to get a divorce. 1)I had low self-esteem due to a negative body image. 2)I had started my own business and didn't have quite enough income to be self-supporting. 3)I was concerned about the effects of divorce on our children. Of course, I also had the more abstract reason that I love my husband.
Perhaps, one of the reasons we ended up in the crucible again this weekend was that something happened last week that sort of nudged the roadblock concerning my kids. This is going to sound incredibly lame admission and I fully expect you guys to get on my case. Last week my daughter told me that the parents of one of her best friends are getting divorced. She told me that her friend wasn't too upset and felt like it was "for the best". She said that the reason they were divorcing was because the mother was a shopaholic and the father was "too sensitive" (I'm willing to bet sex-deprived also). I have to admit my gut reaction to this revelation was "Great! Now we can get a divorce too if it comes to that and D will be less upset because she has peer support.". Of course, I felt like a terrible person for having this thought, but what it revealed to me was that my fear of having to deal with the kid's possible reaction to divorce had been holding me back from really taking as strong a stand as I wanted to on the sex issue. During the fight I actually said to my H "I've been upset about this issue for years but I made the kids a higher priority. I suppose I could just go on being unhappy and then just leave as soon as our youngest graduates from high school, the way your father chose to leave your mother, but that seems pretty damn cold to me. I do love you and I want to work things out.".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I understand that line of thinking. Sometimes there is a part of me that wants to opt out by leaving and there is another part that wants to stay for the good stuff, buy a toy chest worth of sex toys and stop asking H or working on it in any way. The problem is that the lack of emotions or human contact doesn't do it for me. The sex toy avenue would just cause me to be endlessly horny. One episode of quality sex with H and I'm fine for a few days - an orgasm or two from mb and I'm horny again in an hour. (OK - someone will make a comment about Chinese food here - go ahead).
My question to you JJ - Why do you stay. Love for your H? Love for your kids? Boundless hope and optimism? Are there good things about your life that we don't know about that are just too good to walk away from? We all stay for our own reasons. That is why the escape fantasy is mostly that - a fantasy.
If it is getting to be more than a fantasy you need to decide what the parameters are - when will you know you are done? I value my marrriage and I won't let it go without a hard fight but I also left a marriage and believe me it was the right thing to do (he is still wallowing in the exact same place I left him and in the same old excuses). I'm just thinking that you need to define things for yourself - I finally had to in my prior marriage and it was good that I did.
