Some of the "Undefended Love" philosophy LP has been explaining made me think of another book I did some reading in recently (I couldn't read the whole book because a customer bought it) called "God Loves Fun" by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar. The author/guru? uses some interesting analogies to discuss love and intimacy. He makes the point that the opposite of love isn't hate it's indifference. If you are involved in someones life then you love each other. The love is like a river running through time into which both good and bad things are thrown. If someone you love is acting hateful or indifferent towards you this is analogous to the situation when you encounter a friend you haven't seen in a number of years and they don't recognize you right away. It doesn't help to keep repeating "Remember me. Remember me.". You know the truth of your relationship and soon they will recall it too.
The main point made was that the path to true intimacy is to simply assume that you are loved and that your partner know that they are loved too. Sometimes even saying "I love you" is a barrier to intimacy because if you are truly intimate this should just be assumed. He recommends that rather than saying "I love you", you should just let your actions reflect the emotion. The analogy he uses is that love is something beautiful like a flower but many people don't know how to appreciate beautiful things and instead of holding the flower gently by the stem, they clutch at the petals like a baby. ********************************
Another bestseller I read which I highly recommend is "French Women Don't Get Fat" by Mireille Guiliano. This book is really helping me in my attempt to figure out how to cope with a H who prefers me thin but feels most loved when I cook delicious food for him. This is the best "diet" book for someone with a Type 7 personality that I've ever encountered. The subtitle is "The Secret of Eating for Pleasure" and the author does a good job of outlining this philosophy and gives many tips and tricks to help achieve this that have been ritualized by French women.
As a result of reading this book, I decided to "take it up a notch" and go from being a competent cook who feels kind of stressed, bored and unappreciated because I'm cranking out the same old pot of pasta or burger dish every night and become a gourmet cook. The results have been very gratifying. I get a lot more sensual and creative satisfaction from the cooking because I go to the trouble of planning a menu and going to the market for fresh ingredients each morning. My H is very appreciative and most amazing of all, my children who I've on many occasions accused of not liking any food that wasn't white, are eating all sorts of complicated salads and such and enjoying it. Also, I've lost 3 lbs. in the last week even though I've been eating meals like Fresh Corn and Scallop Johnnycakes with Green Onion Sauce served with asparagus and orange sherbet with curls of dark imported chocolate for dessert.
The book also makes some points relevant to this BB because the author discusses how neglecting to attend to your pleasures in life is really a disservice to those you love because you will become increasingly cranky. She also talks about the importance of finding pleasure in sex and love because it is easy to seek excess in one pleasure if you are in a bad mood due to lack of another pleasure. However, she makes the point that finding pleasure in sex and love should be considered more of an art form than something to be approached with "grim determination". One thing she wrote about that really struck me was the relationship between love, sex and laughter. It made me think that many of us on this BB might be better served if we were to think about what we could do that would make our partner laugh, rather than what we could do to make them desire us. Wouldn't CeMar's wife be amazed if he suddenly transformed himself into "un amoureux rigolo" (a love who is funny)?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
RE people who have more orgasams live longer. Sure makes sense. I feel less stressed after a good ML session. Who wouldn't live longer beinf less stressed and the feeling you might have after sex like "someone really likes me."
RE: "Remember me. Remember me.". Good point. Wanting someone to remember you or what you, want won't make it so.
RE: "French Women Don't Get Fat" by Mireille Guiliano. Sounds like someone like me and others that eat to medicate our feelings might benefit from reading the book and implimenting some of the books advice.
Re: that many of us on this BB might be better served if we were to think about what we could do that would make our partner laugh, rather than what we could do to make them desire us.
JJ... This week I got an email from a HS friend...she mentioned she was going through our yearbook and how very very funny I was. I have been so grimly determined to set things straight in my marriage that I think I lost some of that bubbly essence of being...I guess life has a way of doing that to us if we allow it. I think that's why I feel particularly pained when I read about Hairdog's struggle...now he is focused on another " deficit" when it is so clear to all of us how spirited he is underneath it all.
I appreciate your comments...thanks for the reminder to add fun and sensuality to the mix.
Quote: So, your a late night person too. (3:20/3:30 AM)
Actually, I'm a very early morning person who lives in the Eastern Time Zone.
Quote: RE people who have more orgasams live longer. Sure makes sense. I feel less stressed after a good ML session. Who wouldn't live longer beinf less stressed and the feeling you might have after sex like "someone really likes me."
I found it interesting that the quantity of orgasms was more directly linked to health for men while the quality of orgasms was more directly linked to health for women. This is interesting because quantity can obviously be objectively measured and quality can pretty much only be subjectively measured and the phrase "low quality orgasm" seems like a bit of an oxymoron to me, though I suppose some orgasms are more like cheap dimestore candy while others are like fine imported chocolate. However, if you consider multiple orgasms to be the highest quality orgasms then it makes more sense because if a woman orgasms 3x during one session on Saturday night she will be as healthy as a man who orgasms just once on Saturday, Sunday and Monday.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: I appreciate your comments...thanks for the reminder to add fun and sensuality to the mix.
I needed the reminder myself . I found thinking about how to make my H laugh to be an enlightening exercise because it seemed like it should be easy but really it's a hard thing to "try" to do. Especially since in our relationship my H usually plays the role of the clown and I'm the straight man. Perhaps, this exercise should be expanded to include leaving yourself open to having your partner make you laugh also.
Quote: I think that's why I feel particularly pained when I read about Hairdog's struggle...now he is focused on another " deficit" when it is so clear to all of us how spirited he is underneath it all.
I agree. Though as we all know, we are different people in different situations. Hairdog seems like he could be "un amoureux rigolo" but perhaps this part of his personality is blocked in his current relationship.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
So true. I think there is something basic about being able to laugh and being able to share laughter with one's spouse. Laughter (as long as it's not based on hurtful humor) is relaxing and affirming.
Mr DL is actually quite funny (but clearly that's not necessarily related to being HD - you describe yourself as serious). I find laughter, while not precisely a turnon in itself, to be a good prelude to being turned on. By contrast, it's hard for me to be turned on when I'm deadly serious, stressed, tense or in other non-laughing modes.
Likewise, laughter during sex can be fun - as long as it's shared. (See my thread re last weekend - Mr DL and I tried new positions. We are not a lithe and limber 16 and so, at first, we felt anything but suave and accomplished. But we persevered, we laughed, we enjoyed and we smile when we remember it).
Yes, I think leaving yourself open to letting your partner make you laugh counts too.
But I also think that being a clown (which Mr DL often is) can sometimes interfere with intimacy. Clownishness can sometimes mean "look at me, see how funny I am"; it may interrupt a conversation or interaction. So the straight men may need to open up to laughter a bit more, but the clowns may need to be careful that their quest for laughter isn't too self-centered or attention seeking at the expense of their partner. Shared laughter is best.
Sort of a long-winded ramble. I'll leave it to you JJ to be more incisive.
DL
Quote:
Quote: I appreciate your comments...thanks for the reminder to add fun and sensuality to the mix.
I needed the reminder myself. I found thinking about how to make my H laugh to be an enlightening exercise because it seemed like it should be easy but really it's a hard thing to "try" to do. Especially since in our relationship my H usually plays the role of the clown and I'm the straight man. Perhaps, this exercise should be expanded to include leaving yourself open to having your partner make you laugh also.
There are many wise, empathetic and funny people here: you are my buddies - I'm grateful for your support.
Quote: if a woman orgasms 3x during one session on Saturday night she will be as healthy as a man who orgasms just once on Saturday, Sunday and Monday
I have read about the multiple O's women can have and wish I could participate in an event like that. But BB was never interested in more than one. I think back when sex was good, especially baby making sex, she believed that once you had one O, that was it.
I read some web sites that say how men can have more than one O before ejeculating.
Right now we are working on just having sex w/o triggering a UTI. Stop, start, move foward, go back, stop, When will this train go in one direction?
Quote: Actually, I'm a very early morning person who lives in the Eastern Time Zone.
OK, that makes sense. I was in bed, couldn't sleep, so I get up to avoid feeling frustrated.
Quote: Right now we are working on just having sex w/o triggering a UTI.
I gotta say recurrent UTIs would probably make me LD too. Once when I was searching around for other sites that discuss SSMs, I encountered an anecdote from a woman who described herself as someone who naturally has a "normal" sex drive of about 2 or 3x a week. She got into a relationship with a man with whom she had sex approximately 5x a day every day for around 5 years. By the end of the relationship she had constant raging UTIs. After the relationship ended she didn't want any sex for a year.
I also recently read a book which described a horror story SSM at the other end of the spectrum. John Ruskin was a 19th century art critic/writer. He was know for his prudery. He courted a young girl from her early teens and married her once she was of age. They were both virgins when they married. On their wedding night he was unable to function because he believed that female genitalia was supposed to look like it does on classical marble statues. He informed his young wife who was completely ignorant of sexual matters that her genitalia was deformed and that was why he was unable to have sex with her. Many years went by until finally his young wife summoned up the courage to speak to an older female friend about her "deformity". Her friend told her she was normal and eventually she sued Ruskin for divorce on the grounds of impotence.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Quote: I gotta say recurrent UTIs would probably make me LD too.
I empathise with BB completly. In a way, the UTI's are making me LD too and at the same time very frustrated. At first, her options she would talk about, were no sex or just suffer the infections which I took as, her not willing to try to look for solutions. It's all up to me. For a while I was trying to figure out how to be room mates, kiss a little, hug a little and not let the SL I miss turn to resentment.
It's taken BB about 2 months to do much talking about options and only after me saying I might have to medicate my feelings by doing more things by myself, mostly because she did not want to come up options, talk about some ideas I thought would work. She refused to discuss them.
Quote: On their wedding night he was unable to function because he believed that female genitalia was supposed to look like it does on classical marble statues.
I think I read a short thing on the internet about her life post D. Quite liberated post D and some good sex in her life as I remember. Way to go I say to her.
. I found thinking about how to make my H laugh to be an enlightening exercise because it seemed like it should be easy but really it's a hard thing to "try" to do. Especially since in our relationship my H usually plays the role of the clown and I'm the straight man. Perhaps, this exercise should be expanded to include leaving yourself open to having your partner make you laugh also.