Anna~ I think you're right, there is some gender reveral here. I think I had some difficulty bonding with S4 when he was born because I only took two weeks off from work after I had him and I wasn't emotionally or physically ready to go back to work. So, with H being a night owl I relied on him a great deal at night to help S through his fussy times and my shift came in around 3am. So, they bonded a lot when S was a baby. And, as S got older, H would buy toys for him that H had always wanted as a boy, etc. Things I couldn't relate to easily and I didn't try hard enough. So, the last couple years, H and S have all these things that they play together and I could not get my foot in the door so to speak. Daddy knew everything, had to do everything. When I had D, I knew I was a good mom and I took 3 months off from work and just focused on being mommy. It changed my outlook on myself as a mother, for sure.
Anna, picture two things for me and give me your opinion.
1. If your H had told you before separation how he felt, what would you have done differently, anything? Or would you just have thought he was being silly?
2. If, after discussing his feelings of being left out with you, all of a sudden he just dove in head first to being a parent and at times all of a sudden your children started to prefer him to do certain things for them, how threatened would you haven been/be?
Thanks!!
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Heather - My oldest son was so attached to me, when my H would come home, S would say "oh, hi dad - I"M with MOM"! H was starting to get a complex until our D came along - she would run to the door yelling 'Daddy, Daddy"! frankly, I think it was just a difference in personalities - no surprise that as teens, my oldest son is a lotlikeme, D is a lot like her dad. Try not to take it personally.
Also, try to understand that your H is operating out of fear right now - an (understandable) fear that he could end up one of those weekend dads who only get to see their kids on weekends and part of summer vacation. Granted, he hasn't figured out yet that the best way to prevent that is to quit punishing you - but it must be terrifying to him.
I still think that you should read Chapman's Five Love Languages and start trying to fill up your H's love tank - I know, it seems unfair, but I'm vbetting it wouldget you thebest results.
Quote: I still think that you should read Chapman's Five Love Languages
I didn't mention to you that I have read that book. I found the concept very interesting although I could not pinpoint a single lanuage for either myself or my H.
You know, it's funny because I was actually talking to my boss about that book today b/c he's read it also. I was telling him that I didn't find it particularly helpful, but the concept is interesting and might be helpful just to be aware of the concept alone, even if one of the languages doesn't jump off the page at you. I jokingly said, "you know, at this point any one of them [languages] would do just fine!!" He laughed and said "yeah, just pick any one!!" It was very funny, perhaps you had to be there, but it was good to laugh at my situation.
Right now I find it difficult to even look my H in the face I can't imagine thinking about filling his love tank. Most days I feel like I hate him.
Quote: try to understand that your H is operating out of fear right now
This is a good point. I would be afraid if I were him too. But you'd think if he's that afraid of losing his kids, he wouldn't be putting his hands on me and locking me in the laundry room?
In the beginning, I did think S4's reactions to me were just his temporary preference to his dad. But the more I've tried to be more present in his life, the more his dad has resisted. If it was truly about S4's preference, I could be ok with just keepin on tryin. But this isn't about S4's preference anymore because H purposely limits my opportunities to try. See the difference?
I don't so much even have problems with the bond they have anymore. I think I've gotten to the point since I've had D2 that I can understand and I don't take it so personally. But when he uses what he has to such an advantage that he doesn't "allow" me to do certain things like take them to daycare or to the beach or to a friend's soccer game, it becomes a huge problem. I have no idea what's going on at daycare, S4 asked me if today was show and tell day and I truly don't know b/c they post those things outside of the door and I'm not there to see them. Maybe I should just get up in the mornings and go to daycare as well? If they want to ride in Daddy's truck, fine but maybe I should just drive behind and help get them in the building as though it were any other day???
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Quote: 1. If your H had told you before separation how he felt, what would you have done differently, anything? Or would you just have thought he was being silly?
Gosh, I would like to tell you that I would have immediately switched gears, but truly I was so focused on the hurt of the A, and proving to H that I was the perfect wife and mother... therefore he was a monster for cheating on me, that I don't think that I would genuinely have changed. He did passively indicate that this was a problem (only after the Bomb, NEVER before) in saying that he'd like to see me go out more and he could have more one-on-one time with the kids. I took this literally, and left him alone with the kids, but that was the ONLY time I dropped the rope. If I was in the room, it was me jumping up for juice and diapers and organizing our play. I didn't truly hear what he had been trying to tell me... that he wanted to be an equal partner. So, no I think I needed to be scared enough to TRULY look at my own mistakes to recognize how peripheral I had made him in his own home. Since separation, changing this so that when the 4 of us are together, H does EVERYTHING for the kids, even when the kids are demanding me, has been the biggest, and most positive 180 that has happened.
Quote: 2. If, after discussing his feelings of being left out with you, all of a sudden he just dove in head first to being a parent and at times all of a sudden your children started to prefer him to do certain things for them, how threatened would you haven been/be?
Pretty threatened, to be honest. That has been what's happened since separation. Even though I have full custody of the kids, when H comes home he comes in with Timbits and a fun agenda that he has spent days planning, I resent him being Fun Daddy. However, when we are together as a family and he is in charge of boring maintenance, although it's an effort to remember to drop the rope, I'm relaxing into it over time and enjoying the rest and enjoying watching their relationship grow. So threatened, but maturing about it?
But you'd think if he's that afraid of losing his kids, he wouldn't be putting his hands on me and locking me in the laundry room?
That calls for an assumption of mind. Overruled. Next question.
I wish I knew the answers for you. I see your anger and resentment, and I know that colors with rationale or even sabotages your thinking and interactions with him, and you already know what a destructive force he's being out of hurt and wanting control. It's like you two are scrambling at anything except what works, whatever that may be.
Have you answered the basic question, "is this a relationship I really want to save"? It doesn't sound like you really like the person your H is. What is it that you want in a relationship, and do you think you were ever realistically on target for it with him?
Thanks for your honesty Anna. Although it doesn't give me much hope that H is ever going to forgive while I am here and trying. Do you suppose there is a way to make him feel that he is losing me without me actually having to leave?
Quote: It doesn't sound like you really like the person your H is
There are lots of things I dislike about my H. But aside from that, my hatred for him mostly stems from the way he's treated me and/or made me feel. It seems childish to dislike someone just because they dislike you. But I can't seem to help it. Anna's word is great, peripheral. That's how I feel. That's how I've always thought H has regarded me. I don't think he's ever validated a single thing I've ever said if it concerned negative feelings about something he had done or was doing. And I think I could count on one hand the number of times he has told me he was sorry in 13 years. He's never groveled like I have. He never makes the first move. He's always the punisher and I'm always the one to reconcile. I cannot hold a grudge and I'd rather be happy than sad, so I never focused on the hurtful stuff for very long (like the pornography). I'd find it, be hurt, be upset for a day and forget about it. Quite literally. Everything H has done to be a better person, he has done since we've had kids and he did it for them. Like mowing the lawn. I was always embarrassed by our lawn b/c he would NEVER do it. It would literally be a field before he would mow it. I was working full time, going to school and in a sorority so my free time was nil to do it myself and we were broke so I had no money to hire anyone. We bought our house when I was 20 years old but I've always been embarrassed to have people over because it's never been finished, etc. There's no reason for it, between us our incomes are way more than many of my friends or relatives who have nicer homes. Now that we have kids, he mows the lawn every week b/c they play outside a lot. He used to stay up way way late into the night drinking and doing whatever and then sleep half the weekend away so I would wait around for him to get up so we could do something. I'd get frustrated waiting. I'd try everything from waking him up with a smile to vacuuming his room whatever. He never cared, I would just be "picking a fight" which always left me feeling like I started it and and his behavior never changed, in fact, it was a great reason to continue sleeping b/c I was being such a "bitch". Now that we've had kids, he gets up MUCH earlier b/c he doesn't want to miss too much time with them. He used to drink 6 nights a week. He's cut way back over the years, but made one of his biggest changes just recently when he realized drinking could affect his ability to get custody of his kids. So he changed. For the kids. I could go on and on, there are soooo many memories and so many incidents. But it all leads to the same conclusion. I could fall off the face of the earth and would never know if he really gave a damn.
BUT, my H is the father of my children and there is only one of those. There are tons of guys out there, all with their own set of flaws to mingle with my own, but at least I could feel loved again. But they wouldn't be the father of my kids and he would never have a vested interest in the decisions that have to made regarding them. If it were just me and H, I can tell you without a doubt, I would be living in a condo on the beach by MYSELF. I'm having so much trouble sorting through what the right thing is to do, but this site helps me tremendously. Thanks for listening.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
You know, staying married "for the sake of the kids" doesn't really do the children justice when the relationship is terrible, cannot get repaired. It serves up a poor role model for what a relationship should be, and there's nothing wonderful about growing up around two unhappy adults. IMO.
