I think I will. It is still difficult for me to feel comfortable with the idea though because I feel like I have had my part in the abuse as well. But the difference between me and H is that I always admit that I'm wrong, I'll say I'm sorry, I feel bad about my reactions and instigations, whereas H never admits fault. Some, but definitely not all of the characteristics on the printout my C gave me of an abuser seem to characterize my H, not just describe his behavior on a few occasions. A couple of the things on the list that REALLY got me were: "makes her think she's crazy". I cannot tell you how many times I've told others that I'm crazy. I struggle to sort through opinions and perspectives and my H loves to tell me I'm delusional. Another thing I found when researching emotional abuse on the internet is that emotionally abused women find it difficult to "explain their situation". I have been all over the place on this BB, bouncing like a ball, from one situation to the next, trying to get out in words what takes place in my home. I've recently been describing encounters blow by blow, although it may seem immature, it is the only way I can describe my H's behavior for what it is. Which is not loving, kind or helpful.
Quote: The Emotionally Abusive Relationship : How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing
I will look for this book for sure. The part that caught my attention about the title is "how to stop abusing" b/c I feel like I have come to treat H in many many ways the way he treats me and I want to stop it. I feel like if I were ever to be in another R, the person would think I've done lost my mind b/c I don't think I know how to interact in a normal fashion. I have been with H since I was 17 and our R is all I have ever known and I do believe our R has always been dysfunctional even when we were happier. So between the lines, dysfunctional is all I've ever known. On the back of the sheet my C gave me was what "non abusive" opposites were to the "abusive" characteristics on the other side. Out of my mouth came the words "people actually do these things?" She said yes, they do. Not all the time and not perfectly, but yes, people do this. I do want to emphasize that I was locked in the laundry room for perhaps two mintes before I climbed out the window. I was not trapped and I knew it and H knew it. Although I was surprised he didn't lock the rest of the doors so I couldn't get back in the house. But he didn't. I was not afraid, rarely am I afraid of him per se. It wasn't as bad as it may have sounded. I was fine, just angry and surprised. Yeah, I don't know what to say to S4. I don't know how to feel about what's going on myself, how can I possibly have the right words for him? Chrissy, I will check out your thread as well. Thanks again
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Stop excusing him. You take your part in the responsibility but let him take his also stop saying that you are to blame and that is what it appears you are saying.
You did not put his hands around your throat he did. You did not lock yourself in a laundry room he did.
You may have been being verbally abusive on some levels. But he was being physically abusive and mentally abusive.
You state you have so much hate in you for him. I relate. But let me ask you something that I have been asking myself these last three days.
Why are you staying really why. List them and try to figure out if they are good reasons to stay. You have a issue that alot of people here do not you are in harms way. Real physical harm. Not just mental or verbal abuse physical abuse.. That changes alot of things. This was pointed out to me by others here on this website. If you need there words please visit my thread under the sex starved marriage BB it is Chrissys thread.
Yes you may have issues of not handling your emotional outburst But that does not excuse physical threat of injury by your H. You really need to realize that before you justify much more of his behavior. Is there any family members aware of your sitch that way if things get bad and say they dont hear from you for a day or so they know they might want to come looking.
Heather honey, you could be the most selfish girl in the world and still not deserve to be locked in the laundry room for pete's sake. And with your child in the next room? He's learning from this. Somewhere down this road, you'll have to decide if you want to spend any more of your life with this man.
Please be careful.
Each experience in life has formed me, become part of me, made me stronger.
And family and friends skeptically say, "well, you can try Heather and I hope it works for you, but honestly, I think you're wasting your time".
I think that the experience we go through is an opportunity to learn about life, ourselves and others, and we can use it to grow. In that sense, it's not a waste of time.
I've been unable to change, so maybe that's the reason nothing is changing??
Yes, it takes us to change first before we can see changes in others. That's the way it works. But it's not a magic pill. And one has to examine the relationship potential and consider if you really want to be with this man. What do you want in a relationship is your first question.
I do want to emphasize that I was locked in the laundry room for perhaps two mintes before I climbed out the window. I was not trapped and I knew it and H knew it.
The fact that you could get out through a window does not lessen the lack of respect that was evidenced. Locking you up is physical abuse, as you're now learning. No one's to be treated like a prisoner when they're in a relationship. Bottom line as I see it, is yes, make changes in how you react to things in order for you to become a better person, not given to temper and such, and that's for you. But H's behaviors are abusive, way outside the realm of what DBing is about, if DBing is about managing the problems of an otherwise good relationship.
This is always what I come back to. It's like I have difficulty acting because I know that I am not perfect either, so I always come back to what I should or should not have done.
Quote: Why are you staying really why
I want to stay with my H because he is the father of my children and I love the feeling of belonging to his family both for myself and for my kids. Those are the two reasons.
Quote: physical threat of injury by your H
I really do not feel physically threatened, although it has been said to me that I am letting my own guilt overshadow what is going on here and that maybe I need to think about changing my perspective a little. Not sure entirely what that means or how to do it.
Quote: Somewhere down this road, you'll have to decide if you want to spend any more of your life with this man.
This was the goal of my very first thread on this board. How DB applies to me if I'm not even sure I want to be with my H. I mostly wanted some help trying to figure out if this R is worth saving. I do want to be with my H, but it's the H I hardly ever see anymore that I love and he seems to have been replaced with an H who hates me. I find it difficult to love someone who hates me.
Quote: The fact that you could get out through a window does not lessen the lack of respect that was evidenced.
This part hits the nail on the head. There is no respect in my R anymore. I've been so preoccupied trying to figure out why and how and blaming myself or blaming H, but the bottom line is that I guess it doesn't matter WHY. At this point, things have gotten so severe that WHY doesn't matter, it just IS.
I had to call H to ask him for a phone number so I asked him if he's had any time to think again about seeing a counselor, a marriage counselor. (he's at home for lunch) He said "No." I said "no, you haven't had time to think about it or no you won't go?" He said "both". I said "ok, well do you want to try to save this or do you want me to just let it go?" He said "I don't want to get into this right now". I said "ok, would sometime tonight be a better time?" He said "no, probably not". I said "ok, well when would be a better time to talk about it?" He said "Heather, I said I don't want to talk about this right now." I said "you don't have to talk about it right now, I'm just trying to find a time that would be better for you". He said "talking about when we're going to talk about it is still talking about it". I said ok and hung up. Then I was mad at myself for hanging up without saying goodbye. I need to let it go don't I? I can't imagine any ways that H hasn't already thought of to be disrespected more thoroughly.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
He said "Heather, I said I don't want to talk about this right now." I said...
Sometimes, when a guy doesn't want to talk about whatever problem, he withdraws. Simple as that, and any pursuing him isn't going to be fruitful. See if his demeanor changes in two or three days.
On the other hand, given that your interpersonal dynamics are way off the scale, I wouldn't think not having said "bye" was the most important aspect of that conversation.
There is no respect in my R anymore. I've been so preoccupied trying to figure out why and how and blaming myself or blaming H, but the bottom line is that I guess it doesn't matter WHY. At this point, things have gotten so severe that WHY doesn't matter, it just IS.
That's a good starting point. Now the thought is, what changes are needed in behaviors so that both partners feel respected? But underlying that is the fact that both partners have to want to achieve that outcome. Perhaps address that matter directly, openly, calmly and honestly?
Quote: See if his demeanor changes in two or three days.
I will try again, same topic, seeing a counselor in a couple days. I spoke to his mother this weekend and she said he told her the reason he doesn't want to see a counselor is because they will just tell us that it's over. Personally, I think H is doing a fine job of conveying that to me on his own, but apparently he is worried that a C will confirm that? I don't buy that. Personally, I think he knows a C will tell him he's lost his mind to treat another human being this way. But I will give it a few days and try again.
Quote: Now the thought is, what changes are needed in behaviors so that both partners feel respected?
So far, he won't talk about his needs, he only makes demands. If I talk about my needs, I'm being selfish. Shall I try asking him openly what his needs are in a couple days when I address the C topic again? In the past, he has told me that he needs only his kids and for me to leave him alone. I expect he will simply restate that.
Quote: both partners have to want to achieve that outcome
This is the part that I wasn't sure DB could help me with. Because the underlying theme is that both partners don't have to be involved, but in my situation, I don't think I can do it alone.
Right now, my most urgent concern isn't that I've been locked in the laundry room, etc. It's that I feel my H is stealing away the ability for me to be a parent. I haven't been able to convey that part to many of you as of yet. Most of you say to take the extra hour of sleep and be happy. Yesterday, H offered to go help his Dad with some wiring in the building where our family business is (my H and I, his sister and her H and his mom and dad all own four franchises (same franchise, four stores) together). I cannot stress to any of you enough that to not pick a fight in this situation is to assume that S4 will go with H. I cannot separate the two of them ever or there will be a fight. Anytime I've ever tried, H will get mean spirited and angry and S4 will end up staying with H. If S4 ultimately does choose to go with me, which is rare, H will go along so that I cannot spend any alone time. We're talking a wagon ride or a soccer game here, not a day trip. I can't even look at toys on the internet with S4 without H hovering over our shoulders. Anyway, I tried to give S4 a choice like H always does. I said do you want to go with daddy to XX or would you like to come to the beach with mommy and D2 (we were going to H's mother's house, to her beach). H said in the tone that tells me to LEAVE IT ALONE "he already said he wanted to go with me". I put S4 in the middle of a dispute by even suggesting that he come with us, he knows we're fighting about him. I told S4 that he could choose and no one was going to be mad at him, it was his choice how to spend the day. But H wouldn't say the same thing. So, even though S4 said he wanted to come with us, before he knew we were going to the beach, daddy asked him if he wanted to go with him and he said yes, so H was not about to let S4 go with us and that was that. He resumed speaking with S4 about which toys they were taking. So, S4 went to hang out in the building while Daddy and Grandpa moved the speakers from one wall to the other. The parenting problems are what scare me the most and I hate it that H can control the whole family and if I try to buck the "system", then I know I'm starting a fight and I'm putting the kids in the middle. I'm at a loss.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Do you really think it wise and responsible to have S4 make those kinds of decisions?
MC isn't a magical solution, its success depends on the couple's willingness to work on their issues. IMO, yours a little askew, his are way, way off. DBing can change patterns, but it's not a cure all. If you haven't seen positive steps from H, then change what you're doing. Personally, I think you have to tell him that if he doesn't shape up, you're leaving him, and be ready to leave him if he doesn't make the changes. In the meantime, I think you need to let go of your grip some, don't let him see you sweat over your issues, because it seems to me he knows those are your buttons, and he keeps pushing them to punish you.
Quote: Do you really think it wise and responsible to have S4 make those kinds of decisions?
No, I really don't. I see it cause problems all the time because S4 thinks he should get to make decisions about everything and that his decision should stand. This is actually H's philosophy and I think it's messed up, but wanted to at least see if he was willing to let it work both ways. Then I would know if I was dealing with a genuine belief on H's part that we should let the kids choose or if this is just another control tactic. Turned out to be just another control tactic, which is what I thought. I truly hate that the kids have to choose between us. Last night when it was time to leave his mother's, I just got up and kissed the kids goodbye and left rather than put the kids through the whole "do you want to ride with mommy or daddy". I just let him take them. He wins, but the kids don't suffer, so I win too I guess.
Quote: don't let him see you sweat over your issues, because it seems to me he knows those are your buttons
How do you talk openly and honestly about what your needs are without giving H the power to use it against you if he so chooses? This morning, I got up and kissed the kids, told them to have a wonderful day and I got in the shower. I didn't let him see that it bothered me one bit. My lawyer thinks H is setting himself up to be seen as the "primary caregiver" for a custody case.
Quote: I think you have to tell him that if he doesn't shape up, you're leaving him,
Personally, I think this is what I have to do also, but I have to get there mentally to be prepared to do it. Stating something in this manner to H will NEVER elicit a postive response from him, so if I get to the point where I'm ready to say this, I might as well just do it.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
and I think it's messed up, but wanted to at least see if he was willing to let it work both ways. Then I would know if I was dealing with a genuine belief...
I'd just refuse to play along with that crap. But that's me.
How do you talk openly and honestly about what your needs are without giving H the power to use it against you if he so chooses?
By not letting him have that power, that is, by being detached so that any attempts by him to trigger you deflect off you as if you were teflon coated steel. Think of it as being the antidote. Now his poison doesn't work on you anymore, and he's powerless.
My lawyer thinks H is setting himself up to be seen as the "primary caregiver" for a custody case.
Well if he truly is, good luck to him. I don't see it happening, because you're going to play the 'unhappy wife who has the disturbed controlling abusive husband who locks people in the laundry room and refuses to go to a marriage counselor and puts the children in the middle of this' card. Hope H has plenty of money for the attorney fees he's going to needlessly and futilely run up. And from what you reported, the attornies apparently hope so too.
but I have to get there mentally to be prepared to do it.
'Fraid so. I'm not one to advocate a breakup, OK, but not all relationships are worth saving. And boy, Heather, if you can get to that place where you can walk without looking back, that will put you soooo much in control of the relationship - and your life.
