~Update~ It seems like things just keep escalating in this rotten M of mine. This morning was another dramatic, practically violent encounter. H likes to stay up late on Mondays and Fridays, which are historically his "drinking nights". He stays up watching tv, playing video games, whatever. He keeps me up sometimes b/c the movie is too loud. I used to swear that the more he drank, the worse his hearing became. Last night I asked him several times to turn the TV down, which he says he did, but the bass in the surround sound system was still keeping me awake. I finally got really mad and told him to just go to bed so the rest of the fu@@ing house could too and I slammed my door. I did not get to sleep until between 12:30 and 1:00am and I have to be up at 6am to get the kids ready for school. What can I do?? The longer I tossed and turned the ANGRIER I got. I'm powerless as always. So this morning when my alarm went off, I went into his room and told him he might want to plan on getting up a little earlier this morning because he is taking the kids to daycare today and I am getting a little extra sleep. I don't even know how I got designated as the parent whose always responsible for taking kids to daycare anyway. It should be a shared responsibility or he should at least get up early enough to give me a hand, which he never does. I've actually asked him to do something to help in the morning, like get S4 dressed and he will ignore me and get in the shower. He will sit on the couch and snuggle with them and watch tv, but he will not lift a finger to help me get them ready. And then he has to take S4 out to the car and he makes such a production out of saying goodbye that I'm always late for work (I'm always running behind anyway, this is not the only reason I'm late, but it sure doesn't help when you're in a hurry). Well to make a long story short, he totally goes about his business and D2 asks for pancakes. I tell H she wants pancakes, which is part of the morning routine and e says "ok, well fix it then" I say "do you have time for her to eat them" and he says "what are you talking about?" Like I never said a word about him taking them to daycare. He just chooses to ignore me. He goes to walk out the door and I say "H, you are taking the kids to daycare today". He says "no, I'm not. I'll take them tomorrow. You can't just spring this on me at the last minute". I grab my stuff and go to walk out the door and he lunges at me, puts his hands around my neck and tells me "If you'd quit going to karate, I wouldn't be up so late!". I said "how dare you do this in front of them" and he said "you're using them". Now, I know he is trying to control the situation and I'm torn between making a scene in front of my kids and letting him control the situation b/c I feel like if I stand up for myself he will realize he has no power over me and he will stop eventually. So, I say "whatever", and I go around him and go out the back door. I put my stuff in the car and come back in through the front to kiss and hug the kids goodbye and H goes for the door. I walk out the door and so does he, we both get in our cars and drive away. Of course, I only go around the block b/c I'm not going to risk leaving my kids alone for crying out loud. So, I go back, get them ready and I'm putting D2 in her carseat and H pulls back up in the driveway. I take D2 out of her seat and put her in H's arms and tell both kids goodbye and drive across the lawn to get out b/c H parked me in the driveway. Now, believe me, I know I make myself sound clinically insane here. By no means am I trying to make myself look any better than what actually happened. I was stupid and left my kids standing in the driveway wondering why mommy drove on the grass. I feel terrible that I pushed the issue to the point where the kids were put in the middle. I should have gave in. God, somebody please tell me how to handle H constructively.....maybe the only answer is just to get away from him???
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
So, here I am, back at the same state of mind I was in months ago. That I should leave my H. That a separation is the only hope I have to demand respect. But I lose my children half the time in order to gain that respect, and then of course there is the chance I may never regain that respect and that leaving will turn permanent and I will permanently be without my kids for half the time. I just don't know what to do, whenever I think about this stuff, I end up feeling like I'm losing my mind. There are so many perspectives and so many facets, so many positives and negatives, so many risks. I don't want to do just what's best for me, I also want what's best for my kids, but I can't see life from their eyes, so I don't know what they think. They're just babies, they need their mommy...if I move out, will they think I left them???
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
~Update~ Last night when I got home H and the kids were not there, which did not surprise me. I called and his cell phone was turned off. I waited a half hour and called again and he answered with "what". I asked "where are you guys?" he said "we had to get out of there so you could nap or something to make up for all that extra sleep you lost" I said "H, knock it off, where are you, Greenbrier?" he said "yes, but I don't know how long we'll be here". Greenbrier is quite a hike from our home, so basically he was telling me don't bother driving all the way here, b/c we'll probably be gone by the time you get here. But, they didn't get home until after 8pm. This morning, I was rounding up the kids to go to school and H said "I'm taking them." I said "H, I've taken them every day for the last four years, I'll take them", he said "not anymore". He then said "ok then guys do you want to ride with mommy or daddy?" He always knows he'll win with that. I don't understand why, but they always say daddy. So I kissed them and walked out the door, getting to work an hour earlier than usual. And here I sit. As usual, I started the issue. Monday night I could have just kept my mouth shut and tossed turned until morning came and dutifully got up as usual and got the kids ready myself and took them to school. From my persepective, if you're gonna keep me up all damn night then YOU can get up in the morning and take the kids to daycare and see how it feels. But oh no, Heather can't be given an ounce of control in this M, she's not goint to tell ME what to do. I'll show her, she will not take those kids to daycare ever again. That will be her punishment for thinking she can have anything to say about what goes on around here. Am I being melodramatic? Did I have this coming for picking this battle? So, now he is dropping off at daycare and picking up because he gets out of work earlier than me. I won't get to see the teachers at all to find out about what's going on and how they've been doing and he surely won't keep me informed. I feel so helpless, so pathetic. S4 is back to where we were a couple months ago where he won't answer my questions or listen to my authority. I am desperate for advice. A few months ago, I filed for D, and I'm thinking I'd like to change that line of thought and instead just file for custody so that I can move out. I don't want to make it so H can't see the kids of course, I couldn't legally do that anyway b/c he hasn't done anything wrong, but I want primary custody or he will just continue the manipulation forevermore. If I don't have the legal authority to make decisions, H will just continue right on with his ways. Does anyone have any advice for me on what to do? I would appreciate any input!!
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Quote: he said "we had to get out of there so you could nap or something to make up for all that extra sleep you lost"
Quote: This morning, I was rounding up the kids to go to school and H said "I'm taking them." I said "H, I've taken them every day for the last four years, I'll take them", he said "not anymore".
I don't really get you, Heather. You made that big stink about him keeping you up and about him taking the kids to school - now he's doing the very behaviors that one would expect from someone who heard you and was trying to make it up to you, and you're mad at him for that?
Granted, his delivery isn't very smooth - if you've read The Five Love Languages by Chapman, I'm guessing he doesn't do Words of Affirmation very well, but usually shows his love by Acts of Service - and since that isn't your love language, you don't "hear" him when he speaks his love to you in that language. Read the book, it's very good.
I can see a lot of places here where changing YOUR behavior would probably bring about positive changes in H's behavior. And please, don't underestimate the devastating effect of your affair on your H (yes, it's an affair and a betrayal even if you didn't have sex). My H and I are well-reconciled for two years from his brief affair, but I must admit, it still crosses my mind almost every day, still causes me such pain that he could have been so dishonest with me. Only his consistent loving behavior towards me is helping me heal.
Ellie- Thanks for briefly setting aside the immaturity of the encounter I've described to be able to offer some advice. Every time I post an entry here, I struggle with the words to convey what is happening...there is much that happens in my R through body language, tone of voice and harsh looks that make it difficult to put into words.
Quote: I don't really get you, Heather. You made that big stink about him keeping you up and about him taking the kids to school - now he's doing the very behaviors that one would expect from someone who heard you and was trying to make it up to you, and you're mad at him for that?
I suppose on the surface and based on what I've written, that is indeed how it appears. Did I make a big stink about being kept awake? Yeah, I guess I did. How does it work in the rest of the normal world when people are going to stay up until 1:30-3am, is it not common courtesy to be quiet as the rest of the world/house is sleeping?? Maybe my expectations are too high? I'm not being sarcastic, just genuinely frustrated. I am not excusing my own behaviors in this encounter, but please understand that H is not being kind or speaking love to me by taking the kids to daycare, that much I am 100% sure of. I have lost my privilege and this is my punishment. I called him this morning to ask if we could rotate days. He can be responsible for taking the kids to daycare some days and I will be resonsible for the other days. He said "we'll see". This morning when I said I would take them, he asked the kids who they would rather go with. I could give you a million examples of this same power game that has manifested itself in my M a million different ways. But the result is always the same Ellie. I lose. But I've always been ok with that because struggles like this don't come up every day in a M unless it's really on the rocks like ours is now. In the past, I've just gotten over it on the surface, but deep down I feel controlled and disregarded. I'm not trying to sound like the perfect spouse, but did you miss the part about him putting his hands around my neck??? Is this a love language that I'm not aware of? I don't want the impression that I'm just complaining and restating the things I've already said, but I feel like you've missed some parts of my post that will give you huge insight to the fact that my H was not being loving yesterday, nor is he today.
Quote: I can see a lot of places here where changing YOUR behavior would probably bring about positive changes in H's behavior.
This is the stuff I need, please, be more specific.
Quote: And please, don't underestimate the devastating effect of your affair on your H
I'm trying not to underestimate the effects of an affair. That's why I'm here. Does it appear that is my tone, that I'm downplaying my role in my failing M?
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Quote: I can see a lot of places here where changing YOUR behavior would probably bring about positive changes in H's behavior
Quote: This is the stuff I need, please, be more specific.
Quote: Last night I asked him several times to turn the TV down, which he says he did, but the bass in the surround sound system was still keeping me awake. I finally got really mad and told him to just go to bed so the rest of the fu@@ing house could too and I slammed my door.
I'm guessing you would have gotten further here with something like "gee, H, the bass is still keeping me awake, and I have to get up early to take the kids to school. I really need my sleep. Is there a way to turn off the bass, or could you finish this tomorrow and come to bed with me?"
Quote: So this morning when my alarm went off, I went into his room and told him he might want to plan on getting up a little earlier this morning because he is taking the kids to daycare today and I am getting a little extra sleep.
Probably would have escalated less if you'd asked him instead of told him - "H, your movie really kept me awake last night and I didn't get enough sleep. I really need you to get up and take the kids to school, please, so I can get some more sleep".
Quote: ". He says "no, I'm not. I'll take them tomorrow. You can't just spring this on me at the last minute". I grab my stuff and go to walk out the door and he lunges at me, puts his hands around my neck and tells me "If you'd quit going to karate, I wouldn't be up so late!".
Not to justify his behavior here at all, because it was obviously inappropriate to put his hands on you, but can you see how you baited him (no warning was kind of unreasonable ) and how obviously your karate classes are an issue for him (is he jealous and worried you'll meet another man there???).
Please read the Five Love Languages. I see a lot of miscommunication here on both your parts. And don't assume that every time H wants to do sometyhing differently than you do that he is controlling you.
Quote: I'm guessing you would have gotten further here with something like "gee, H, the bass is still keeping me awake, and I have to get up early to take the kids to school. I really need my sleep. Is there a way to turn off the bass, or could you finish this tomorrow and come to bed with me?"
In my original post I said that I asked him twice to turn the TV down before I lost my temper. Here might be an appropriate place to state that this is an ongoing issue in our house, not a one time thing. I have to sleep with a fan on to drown out the TV, which works most nights. Oh, and by the way, my H doesn't sleep with me, I am not allowed in my bed. It sounds like you come from a R where you ask for what you want and the other person tries to comply within reason. That doesn't happen in my R.
Quote: Not to justify his behavior here at all, because it was obviously inappropriate to put his hands on you, but can you see how you baited him (no warning was kind of unreasonable ) and how obviously your karate classes are an issue for him (is he jealous and worried you'll meet another man there???).
You are justifying his behavior Ellie. Which is fine if that is how you feel, but don't say you're not justifying, only to go on in your sentence and justify it. What if he had punched my lights out? The fact remains that I baited him I suppose? I gave H an hour and a half notice that I wanted him to take the kids to daycare. If I dare say, that's more notice than I got when I discovered I wasn't going to be able to sleep until 1am. Yes I would agree that my karate classes are quite an issue for him. But that is just it-it's his issue. I've done my best to console him, I've told him he can come or call anytime. I've even asked on SEVERAL occasions if I can bring our son. Can you think of anything else I can do to reassure him besides quitting, which I am not willing to do?I cannot change him. I understand that. I can only change myself. But to change myself in this situation seems to be to shrink myself to a shadow of the person I am. I do not downplay the fact that I had an affair. But my A doesn't have to be an excuse for every single event that takes place in our M. I do appreciate your input Ellie. I sense some hostility in your posts to me though as if my situation may provoke you somehow? I'm trying my best, that's all I can say for myself. I do know my M has reached a new peak of ridiculousness and for my part, I have got to get a handle on my temper, for sure. I'm being honest here and trying to make sure I also state my role in these encounters with H.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
I'm really not feeling hostile. And no, I'm NOT justifying his behavior, just trying to point out why he may have been justified in FEELING aggravated with you (NOT justified in acting on it in that way).
What I really see here is the two of you locked in a downward spiral of negative action/reaction, and you really need to break the cycle - and you can only do that by changing what YOU control, which is YOUR behavior. Reread DR and please read the Chapman book - I think you'll see a lot there.
You are justifying his behavior Ellie. Which is fine if that is how you feel, but don't say you're not justifying, only to go on in your sentence and justify it. What if he had punched my lights out? The fact remains that I baited him I suppose?
Heatherg, if I may step in here, it takes two to make a dynamic. All kml is pointing out is that part of the two that you have control over changing the dynamic of.
Sensing some defensiveness here... it's brewing over... heatherg, we're all on the same side here.
Yes I would agree that my karate classes are quite an issue for him. ... Can you think of anything else I can do to reassure him besides quitting
Nope. So... do we know what is it about taking karate classes that is an issue for him? Has he told you what it is? Have you asked him? And further, I'll lay odds the the real issue has nothing to do with karate or classes.
I am in defense mode. Especially when things are worded like "I don't get you Heather". I am so sensitive to what others think. I feel like I haven't been able to convey what's happening in my home and I feel desperate. My desperation is no one's problem but my own and I come here because I really do want objective opinions, but my feelings are fragile. Sometimes it doesn't feel like I am on the same side as anyone here because I am the cheater and it often feels like not many on this board have much empathy (please don't mistake for SYMPATHY) for someone in my position. I know the A is a big deal for H. But right now I'm trying to figure out if this M is worth even bothering to overcome the A. I can bend until my back breaks, but I don't know how to live with someone who doesn't think I'm worth turning down the TV for. My biggest change for myself was GOING to be standing up for me, my feelings and my opinions matter even though I am a cheater. I wasn't always a cheater and I promise you my feelings and opinions weren't taken any more seriously then. I was given the good advice not to assume that H is controlling me just because he wants something different than I do. That is good advice and I will definitely incorporate it in the things to think about file in my brain. But I just feel like when H tells me I'm not taking the kids to daycare anymore and when I call to ask if we can arrange days, he tells me "we'll see", I don't see where there's much room for interpretation there. If I sound defensive and freaked out, it's because I AM!! This whole thing is the result of an argument that I instigated. So, you see my dilemma. I always pay a very, very large price for anything that could be construed as a mistake on my part. So, ok. Let me be solution oriented now that I've calmed down. Thank you to all who've beared with me on my emotional side of this. Clearly I should not have lost my temper Monday night. This is a huge backslide on my part, for my own personal goals. I don't know what I could have done instead. Laid there and stewed I guess. I could use help with a more contructive way to handle it. H said he turned the TV down. I guess he must have, so in his mind I guess he fulfilled his obligation. It was too much to ask to turn it off then? How about that my H has disallowed me from taking my kids to daycare? Any items for action here? The kids will say they want to go with him if given a choice, so that base has already cleverly been covered by H. If he continues to take them places without telling me where they'll be, I guess I'll need to figure out how to solve that too. I really do feel crazy. Speaking of crazy, I had an interesting session with my counselor today. I'll post more on it later. Ellie, NY, thank you.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
