I see where you are coming from. But what if the stolen stuff was MINE??
My point was that questions like that belong in a court of law. We need another path to trek to resolve this.
We haven't fought at all about who did what first, or whose fault this is. The problem is, we haven't said anything at all... The only thing I can think of, is to let it blow over.
I don't think non-communication is the answer. That's 'hoping it goes away' and that doesn't resolve anything, it permits the problem to exist and even grow bigger. It's sucked out some "love deposits" and seems not to be an issue that can be ignored, since H equates it with an issue of trust.
he takes everything to such an extreme, I swear.
Seems so to you and not to him. Conversely, he sees your deleting his copies as an extreme.
I wouldn't know exactly how to go about resolving this, except to look for a win-win solution where you both feel good about the outcome. I think part of that involves you validating his concerns, I don't think we can wait on H to make it right between you two.
Perhaps if you were to validate his concerns and suggest that you both have done the wrong thing, H may pick up on that and get on the same track.
I don't suggest that it be in a blaming statement such as, "I did the wrong thing by deleting emails from your account, but you did the wrong thing too by making copies from my account"
but rather more along the lines of
"I think we both made some mistakes when we got into each other's accounts."
We can't control how H wants to go about negotiating a truce and forgiving these events and letting them go. He may harbor resentment, he may hold a grudge, none of that will work to establish a positive outcome. All we can do is lead the way there and see if in time H picks up the methodology if hopefully he's more willing to resolve this than cling to 'who's right and who's wrong' type thinking or holding onto his hurt.
Speaking of negotiating a truce, Michele writes about looking back at past arguments and seeing what triggers truces between you two, and implementing those actions in the current situation.
By the way all, I can't tell you enough times how much I appreciate you taking time away from your own issues to help me with mine!! It's been SOOO helpful, NY you especially check up on me and I don't think DB would have had the same meaning for me if you had not found me. THANK YOU.
Right. So with all this being said, assuming a discussion is the route I'm going to take, how do I handle the fact that we haven't spoken in over a week? Do I just assume he's had enough space and it's time to initiate a discussion about it? So, let's say I initiate a discussion about it. There will be two paths at that point. He will either be responsive, or he won't. If he's responsive, meaning he doesn't glare me into the floor or wave his hand at me or perform some other form of rejection,
Quote: "I think we both made some mistakes when we got into each other's accounts."
I'm hestitant to imply he did something wrong as well b/c being responsive is a great first step for him and I don't want to immediately turn him off. So, WTBS, do my reasons matter? Should I talk at all about WHY I deleted them? Or should the conversation be all about his feelings and me validating them? My fear is that if I intend the conversation to be about his feelings, there won't be a conversation b/c he doesn't talk that feely about how he feels. Also, if he rejects the conversation, what do I say? Anything? How about "You don't have to say anything if you don't want to although hearing how you feel was the primary reason for the discussion. But either way, I'd like you to know XXX"
Or do I just say "It's clear you don't want to talk about this, if at any point you change your mind, I'm completely open to it".
The first scenario at least assures that SOMETHING gets said. B/c you have to understand my H can avoid really, really well. So if I don't say anything, nothing may ever get said.
The second scenario would be sort of a 180 for me. Me saying, ok you're not biting, neither am I. This is about how you feel, not about how I feel and I'm not going to turn it into something about how I feel just b/c you won't tell me how you feel.
PHEW!! This is so crazy at times and feels so much like back in high school. But it I don't have a course of action, emotions will certainly take over. I don't want that, so this is my alternative I guess!
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Right. So with all this being said, assuming a discussion is the route I'm going to take, how do I handle the fact that we haven't spoken in over a week?
Is that silence because of this? What would be a truce trigger to break that silence?
There will be two paths at that point. He will either be responsive, or he won't. If he's responsive, meaning he doesn't glare me into the floor or wave his hand at me or perform some other form of rejection
yeah, well. like I wrote, we can't expect the WAS to have learned great relationship skills. We can only lead them by example.
So, WTBS, do my reasons matter? Should I talk at all about WHY I deleted them? Or should the conversation be all about his feelings and me validating them?
How is stating your reasons up front going to help resolve this?
If you validate his concerns first, you at least get agreement on common ground. Agree with his concerns, but then show why these circumstances don't warrant them.
"I understand you trusted me not to mess around with anything in your email account and I can see how it seems to you that my deleting those copies betrayed that trust. I didn't think I was betraying your trust as all I saw I was doing was getting rid of my emails, not yours."
I don't know if that's exactly the way to tackle the problem, but Dr. Phil isn't returning my requests to consult over this. "PHEW" is right! Too much assuming what H will or will not respond like. I would just say it, give him a peck on the cheek when you're done and say, "Sorry it turned into this" and walk out of the room. If he wants to continue to pick at the sore, don't get sucked into the drama. Just give him a lot of "I'm sorry you feel that way".
I really don't get it. I'd do anything to have a chance to make things up with my WAW. I realized last night that my 180s have affected other parts of me like a ripple effect, causing other 180s to happen in areas I didn't even think about and how so different everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, would be from how she had it with me, and here's a guy has a chance to make things better but wants to act like an immature spoiled kid instead holding onto a perceived slight. What a world.
Curious Heather... after your A ended, how did you (truthfully) feel about OM? Do you think on him fondly but with regret? Do you resent his appearance in your life? Do you respect him? Do you ever want to contact him?
NY~ Dr. Phil....funny!! Well Dr. NY is filling in wonderfully, lol!
Yes, the silence is over the deleted emails. We reconciled May 24, had a great memorial weekend and then on June 7 it all went to hell in a handbasket over these emails. I'll break the silence, I always do. I'll certainly be posting on how it goes. I don't know if it will be tonight, I'm trying to practice better "timing". So, I'll try to talk to him one night soon. We have two small children, so 10:30 is about the earliest chance I get and needless to say, I'm wiped by then. The last thing I feel like doing is talking R talk. Gotta do whatcha gotta do though. I know what you're saying about working things out with your WAW. Most people on this board would say the same. Which makes me wonder a couple different things. If spouses are immediately sorry for their A, would most of the people on this board find it easier to "make them pay", like my H is? You can manipulate someone who's guilt ridden and remorseful much easier that you can someone who says, "whatever, I'll just go spend time with OP then". That's pessimistic isn't it? But surely my H can't be so different than the rest of the world....is he?? The second thing your comment makes me wonder is WHY doesn't my H feel the way so many on this board feel? Is it b/c of my above speculation? Simply that he treats me like this b/c he can? Guess I may have to accept that I may never know why he doesn't feel that way. Hopefully someday he will.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
He is just trying to take it all in. I'm sure he is not trying to intetional hurt you. He is just thinking about himself right now. Let him think!!!!
Read anything you can get your hands on!!! Read about rebuilding trust on the internet. What are your short term goals for the next 2 weeks. And what are you going to do to get there?
Quote: If spouses are immediately sorry for their A, would most of the people on this board find it easier to "make them pay", like my H is? You can manipulate someone who's guilt ridden and remorseful much easier that you can someone who says, "whatever, I'll just go spend time with OP then".
The unseemly truth is that in my case, I think that's accurate. When H dropped first bomb, he ended it with her quickly. Then I went on a rampage of punishment and pursuit. "I love you soooo much. But you don't deserve my love because you are disgusting. But you have it anyway. You should thank me. Because I love you soooo much." Oddly enough he left after a couple of months of that and went back with OW.
It took that for me to get my head on straight, stop playing the victim and look at myself and my marriage head-on. Too little too late? Maybe. I hope not.
Anna~ I barely knew OM. He was the singer in my brother's band. I used to very innocently watch my brother play on Friday nights. This guy had the hots for me and pursued me like crazy. But there were a ton of ways to get it to stop, none of which I did. I thought it was harmless and so did my H. He knew the guy had a crush on me. But you have to understand, this guy was not my type, H was not threatened I don't think or he would have tried to put a stop to me going. BUT, against all odds, I started to look forward to seeing OM. I looked forward to flirting with him. He used to tell me how smart I was, how beautiful I was, that he was in love with me, what he wouldn't do to have a girl like me. He used to hug me, put his arm around me, jokingly introduce me as his girlfriend, kiss me on the cheek. Then all of a sudden one night, I kissed him. Really kissed him....and the rest is history. So, Anna, I was in love with the things he said to me. It had absolutely nothing to do with him. I told my H the truth on Sunday morning and OM called me Monday morning, and I told him not to ever call me again. I told him if he ever saw me again not to so much as say hello to me. Brutal to him, I know. But then again, I WAS married and he knew it so I wasn't too concerned about his feelings. I actually had a much harder time with the person I had been emailing. I had become somewhat emotionally attached with my vision of him and honestly still think of him when times get really tough for me with H. So, no, I do not have nor did I ever have any feelings for OM. If someone told me that, the first question I would ask is why the hell would you put your M on the line for someone you care nothing about???? In all my reflection, I have come to the conclusion that I was trying to get H's attention. It was like "there, I did this. Will you listen now?" H was the only person I ever really wanted. But somehow it seemed he was out of my reach. Our children were born and after that I could have fell off the face of the earth for all he seemed to care. Geez, I fixed that dilemma didn't I???
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Quote: What are your short term goals for the next 2 weeks. And what are you going to do to get there?
Well, I had lots of great goals and then this stupid email thing happened and it got me very discouraged. But, since I took the time to comprise them, here they are: 1.Give back password to my email account 2.Keep him posted on my whereabouts 3.Carry my cell phone and always answer it 4.Call if I will be late or if my plans change 5.Don't talk on the phone in the evenings 6.Play more with the kids 7.Praise H more, give compliments 8.Don't yell 9.Discuss only one issue at a time during R talks 10.Set an internal time limit for heavy discussions 11.Don't call names or swear during discussions/arguments 12.LISTEN 13.Empathize 14.Count to 5 befoe I speak/reply 15.Ask questions, ask his opinion 16.If he initiates, we have sex. No rejection. 17.Initiate sex more, at least once a week 18.Small gestures of affection 19.Give myself space if feeling irritable so I won't pick fights 20.Write about anything I may want to discuss with H. That way I can clarify points, decide if it's really worth discussing, etc.
So, that's what I came up with. It just all seems so pointless when we aren't even speaking....I'm feeling discouraged tonight as mostly when I see him I hate him more than love him. Is that normal?? Anyone??
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Gosh, the very possibility that this dynamic is evident in other relationships is so scary. Because it seems that M is never 50/50 the way it's promised to be. It's like 75/25 b/c when one SP gives 75, the other somehow someway feels that they don't have to give as much. Then the SP giving 75 backs off and the other SP soon thereafter picks up the slack and brings their contribution up to 75. Frightening b/c it just eludes to the idea that we ALWAYS want what we don't have. And when we have it we take it for granted. It's like, human nature or something. Even here on this board, it's rampant. Like Ok, the other SP is responding, should I back off? Why can't we all just give 100%......I know I should have asked myself that same question a year ago before I committed an irreversible act. Now I'm preaching to the choir! Oh well guys, as long as we see the light now, we can change the future and that's all we can ask for right?
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
