How to GAL when SP is jealous/trust is broken??

[heatherg]

NY~

We're all doing whatever to attract our WASs back, and yours insists on making it difficult.

I've thought that many times as I've read through the posts on these BBs, that these people really want their spouses back even though they've been deeply hurt. I've wondered many times what my H expects of me.
He has a very strong sense of right and wrong and pretty much all who know him agree that things are black and white and there is no gray. Even if/as things improve, it is hard for me to imagine that I will ever have his full forgiveness.

He could keep on throwing hurdles at you that you need to jump over to continually prove yourself unless he lets it go.

This is what I'm afraid of. He keeps looking for something outside of himself to make him want to forgive me. It's as if he doesn't understand that it has to come from within himself. Meanwhile, I'm afraid I will have to give up my integrity to try to prove something that cannot be proven.

And you're saying that you regret what you've done, but you had your reasons, they were valid to you, and so you don't see yourself beholden or accountable to H for them so as to be sorry to him, specifically?

I'm saying there were reasons. I don't think they were valid reasons for cheating, no. But those reasons are not why it's been difficult to be specifically sorry to H~it's more the way he has treated me and handled the situation. I know it sounds terrible, like I do something awful to someone I'm supposed to love and then give them a flunking grade on how they handle it. But I've felt only anger and defensiveness toward him since I told him about the A, not very conducive to mixing with feelings of sorrow and regret. Does that make sense?
I need to talk more about detaching. My H is awesome at detaching. But clearly it's not the same thing as what DB encourages. My H can just shut me right out if he's angry at me. I think that detaching was such a negative cycle in our M, that ultimately nothing I did could elicit a response from him. I cheated for his attention, I'm pretty sure of that. It was like, "there, I did this. will you listen to me now??" Very immature and irresponsible, especially when two children are involved. I'm not saying I did it consciously, but after a great deal of reflection on why I would do something so uncharacteristic of me, I've come down to the fact that I wanted to get his attention and I wanted him to quit blowing me off.
So, I need to redefine "detaching" because to me, it already has a meaning and it's not a good one.

what's H's expectation of what "sorry" should be or look like coming from you?

I have absolutely NO idea. I've thought about this quite a bit. Is there a difference between being sorry and being sorry TO someone? Because H says he does not doubt that I am sorry. Sorry to myself, our kids, sorry to my family and to his family. But I've never been sorry to HIM. What does that mean???

[heatherg]

~Update~
H starting to talk a little more, mostly through the kids (like, "daddy's taking a shower then we'll go to the beach" would be his way of letting me know his plans).
He's mentioned buying a boat a couple times and we stopped and looked at one on the way back from dinner Sat night. There is NO way he can afford a boat on his own, so I highly doubt he's done anything legally, like had separations papers drawn or anything.
I decided to reclaim my email account by changing my password back, but I sent him an email giving him the new password.
I didn't go to karate Friday night or Sunday afternoon, but I don't want to give it up entirely. I usually go on Monday nights, so should I go tonight?? I'm mixed up on giving H what he needs to regain trust vs continuing something I love doing. More importantly, quitting would make me feel like I'm not respecting myself and how I feel. Or maybe that just doesn't matter right now?
Overall, considering he's not speaking to me, I've been pretty pleasant. Talking to him now and then, saying things that don't require an answer.

[NYsurvivor]

I usually go on Monday nights, so should I go tonight?? I'm mixed up on giving H what he needs to regain trust vs continuing something I love doing. More importantly, quitting would make me feel like I'm not respecting myself and how I feel. Or maybe that just doesn't matter right now?

I'd say "go".

You cannot lose yourself in this process.

If you do, H will have no respect for you learning that he need only demand and you give up portions of yourself and your life. That's not the boundary you want to set, is it?

Now regarding H's side of the coin, the trust issue. Make yourself fully transparent to H while you're out. Reassure him by telling him where you'll be and that you're available by cell. If the place restricts cell phones, invite him down if he wants to come down and watch. (Maybe if he actually gets to see that you're learning to kick a$$ he'll be more tolerable )

[heatherg]

Yeah, I think I will go. I have invited him to come before and said he can call the school anytime. I said on an earlier post that I'm also going to discuss switching to a closer school as well. That might make him feel a little better about it because I won't need to be gone as long.

I went home for lunch today and H was there, which is not a surprise as he goes home quite a bit for lunch, but I usually don't. So, I think I took him off guard. I know I took him off guard~you know how you can just tell that your SP is acting funny or hiding something? He was coming out of the hallway that leads to all the bedrooms. He was so taken aback that he forgot he wasn't speaking to me and he said "Hey, what's up?" I just thought this was weird, I wonder what he was up to?? Oh well, I guess it doesn't matter.
I watched Spanglish the other night, which my sister thought was wildly funny b/c the wife plays such an emotional basket case. I wouldn't classify myself as an emotional basket case but the movie just hit too close to home and I didn't think it was funny at all...funny is one of the last words I would use to describe it in fact. Only the main story line is similar to my situation~W cheats on H, but somehow I managed to be paranoid that I'm like the W in the movie. Blah, blah, blah.
And I went to bed that night and had a dream that after I told H about my A, he also cheated on me (similar to the movie). So, I woke up with a lot of feelings and I think I caught a glimpse into how infidelity feels from the betrayeds' point of view. Sweet revenge, huh?

[wishingtoheal]

While I have not read any of your thread I did nothice on another thread you mentioned that H was livid that you had deleted the emails between you and OP and you were trying to understand why the anger. For me, I have a stack of emails between H and ow but I have only read a couple of them and have them locked away in a place that would take me several hours to get to. I have not read them because I do not want to become hardened to them and what they say. If I read them over and over again I know that eventually the shock and hurt of those emails would gradully ease......and I don't want that. If H was to come home those emails would never see the light of day.....but if we continue on the path to D that we are now headed on I will read those emails to help stiffen my backbone during the D process so I don't just cave in to H's demands.

Maybe your H is so mad about you deleting them because in his own way he was trying to process through his hurt and betrayal....on the other hand he could be furious because he planned on using them against you....I don't know, just a thought.

Wishing

[NYsurvivor]

Clear a point up for me. The emails you deleted, were they in your H's email account or yours? If they were in your H's account, is his anger really about you invading his account?

[heatherg]

The emails were in his account, but he got them from MY account. I gave him the password to my email account a year ago so that he could read the emails and then without asking my permission or even telling me, he forwarded copies of them to his email account.
A couple of months later, he gave me the password to his email account for reasons that are another story (pornography issues). When I entered his account, I saw he had copies of my emails. I didn't immediately delete them, in fact I didn't say anything to him about it and let it go for the most part. But when I signed divorce papers in February and it was starting to become clear that we were not going to remain together, it made a whole lot of sense to me to delete them for a multitude of reasons.
He just didn't notice they were gone until three days before we WOULD have been in court if I would not have postponed/cancelled it (June 7). That's what makes me pretty sure he kept the emails to use against me.
When he confronted me about it, he said "way to restablish the trust Heather" all I said was "I let you read those emails to be open and honest with you about everything, but I never said you could take anything". He asked me to send them back to him and I told him I no longer had them, which is entirely true. There was just dead silence on the other end for at least 1 minute, which can seem like forever. I even had to take the phone off my ear and look at it to make sure it still said "connected"....then he said "f@@k you" and he hung up on me. He did not ask when I deleted them, nor did I offer that information. Do you think it's important that I tell him I deleted them 3 months ago??
I don't think he's upset that I was in his email account b/c months ago, I very bluntly told him something was bothering me (I never told him what) and I wanted the password to his account. He gave it without a second thought. So he knew I would be entering his account at some point. It seems he thinks I took something that belonged to him.....but they weren't his, they were mine. Am I right on that? I think that's a very important point. They weren't his just because they were in his account. Taking a little extreme, stolen property is still stolen even if it now resides in your living room.

[NYsurvivor]

The emails were in his account... it made a whole lot of sense to me to delete them for a multitude of reasons... When he confronted me about it, he said "way to restablish the trust Heather"....then he said "f@@k you" and he hung up on me.

I don't think he's upset that I was in his email account b/c months ago, I very bluntly told him something was bothering me (I never told him what) and I wanted the password to his account. He gave it without a second thought. So he knew I would be entering his account at some point.

You didn't just enter and look around, you deleted stuff. If someone gave you the key to their house so that you could enter, they could be real upset if you took stuff out while you there... even if it was stolen furniture which they didn't have a right to have. They may not have the right to have that stuff, but then, that doesn't stop them from feeling that they've been violated. That's what appears to be happening in your case.

It seems he thinks I took something that belonged to him.....but they weren't his, they were mine. Am I right on that?

Yes, you're right that he violated your email account when he forwarded copies from your account to his. In effect, he's guilty of the same act you're guilty of, that is engaging in some unauthorized act while in the other's email account. He minimizes his actions while magnifying yours, you're doing the same back.

So I think the reason he said "way to reestablish the trust" points to his feeling that his account was compromised by your act.

Maybe he wanted those copies just in case D came up again.

But all in all, two wrongs won't make anything right here. You can both draw your lines and blame the other, you're both right, and you're both wrong, and fight about this forever.

Is it worth it? It isn't making anything better. There's the health of your relationship to consider, your goals, and if you get into principles such as:

stolen property is still stolen

then that's a legal argument that belongs in a court, not a relationship. Winning in court requires having the winning argument. A relationship doesn't work that way.

Resolving this is going to take you to make the first move. What would be another way to resolve this that doesn't require assigning who's at fault?

[anna123]

Winning in court requires having the winning argument. A relationship doesn't work that way.

Good point NYS! Court aside, that's something that I am guilty of... arguing in my head with H about why what he's doing is so wrong, illogical, unfair etc. And in the past I would tell him so over and over and over. He had no answer except "I know. I know." Then he'd go and do whatever anyway. It doesn't matter that I have the more sound argument... this is marriage, not debate club.

Sorry to hijack this thread... just struck by that point.

[heatherg]

If someone gave you the key to their house so that you could enter, they could be real upset if you took stuff out while you there

I see where you are coming from. But what if the stolen stuff was MINE??
But that's all I'm going to say about that. I agree with you wholheartedly that we both commited the same act and that two wrongs don't make anything right.
We haven't fought at all about who did what first, or whose fault this is. The problem is, we haven't said anything at all.
I can't think of a single way to resolve it. We both did what we did, I didn't freak out when I saw what he did.....he takes everything to such an extreme, I swear. He even hacked into my email account after I changed my password and I didn't say a single angry word to him. I wasn't even angry. I just reclaimed my account, changed my password back and emailed him the new one if he would like to have access.
The only thing I can think of, is to let it blow over. I can't undo it and I honestly think that's the only thing that will be good enough for H, b/c there are no reasons to justify it.
Is something coming to you~a good way to resolve it? Because I'm all ears!!

By the way all, I can't tell you enough times how much I appreciate you taking time away from your own issues to help me with mine!! It's been SOOO helpful, NY you especially check up on me and I don't think DB would have had the same meaning for me if you had not found me. THANK YOU.