Hi Hope! I posted a long response to you on Friday, and then lost it...then my computer crashed, and I didnt get it redone...but I see you've gotten some really great insights that I couldnt have added one single thing to.
One thing that really got my attention though was your statement that you were taught that men will let you down and we must always take care of ourselves. I've been "pondering" such issues lately myself...although there is certainly truth and wisdom in that, I think a lot of us may have some how gotten sold a bill of goods in that area.
I found another website that addressed the issue of "being a doormat" in this situation, it helped me a lot. If I can find it again, I'll post the address here.
meanwhile, I don't remember if it's Molly or Tessa who posted about how important it is to keep in mind that no one else can live your life for you....That's so true, and so important to keep in mind. I think it's a disservice, actually, to push others to make choices for their lives based on our values (unless it's clearly a situation that's unhealthful, dangerous, abusive, etc.)...YOU have to live with your choices...that's why it's so critical to be the one who makes them.
I hope you had a good weekend...I vote with the others here who say "go to vegas and have fun"....and I'm waiting with Slowly to here what this weeks 180 will be.
Well, how was Vegas?! You know I have done the same thing with my H, the clingy, smothering stuff. The reason I did this (and sometimes still do) is because I allowed my self esteem to be totally dependent on him. If he's ok with me, then I'm ok with me. If he is occupied by other things, people, etc., I would take that as rejection. If I want to spend every waking moment with him then he should feel the same way, right? Nope, he is a busy guy with a job, hobbies, lots of friends, etc. He wants me in his life, but he doesn't want me to BE his life. And it isn't healthy for me to want him to BE my life. I'm learning that slowly. It does take time and patience to change a behavior you have spent your whole life working on.
So take your time and fill your life with things other than him. He's going to appreciate it and you will feel better when you can lift your self esteem without his help.
What is my 180 going to be this week? I am trying to do several actually.
First, I will not fight with H, especially not over the phone.
Second, I will try to recognise when I am craving H's attention unreasonably and try to let it be. An example of this was last night. H left Miami for Vegas. I had called H before he left and asked him to call me when he got to Vegas. H had not called at all since getting to Miami. I have done all the calling. I know he's angry with me. But I was also angry with him and worried that he was okay.
I asked H to call as I worry that he's arrived safely etc. There is a 3 hour time difference. But I had expected H to arrive there at about 7pm my time. I waited for his call. When he hadn't called by 9:30 I was pretty disappointed. I was a bit tearful and felt that H was playing power/control games again.
I tried to be reasonable and thought that ok maybe H was really tired, maybe there was some snafu at the hotel. He'll call in the morning. Usually I would think that H just doesn't care and maybe even call H and be upset and tell him how he was being uncaring etc. I tried to remind myself that this was not all about me only and what I wanted or felt I needed.
The phone rang at 12:30. It was H. He hadn't called earlier because he had left some of his important stuff in the taxi which took him to the hotel and had gone back to the airport and spent 3 hrs trying to find the taxi driver.
So there is a little success there. I think this is also a 180 on the fighting front as I did not call H and quarrel with him about not calling me.
I am also focusing on H's positive points and not the negative ones.
THis one is proving challenging. Guys this am I felt I was really losing it. I kept going back to the RL gift clothing and went to crazymaking from there. The only thing which helped was remembering that if there is an ow she is the symptom and not the cause of the problem.
So I will keep Dbing. I am pondering setting an initial time deadline of Dec 05 to stay in the M and not make accusations etc. no matter what. I need something to keep me from seesawing every day. It is too emotionally exhausting.
Tessa, wow. Thanks for the insight. Its good (in a way) to know I am nto the only one who has struggled with these issues. I do recognise that I may have made the M soo stressful that H responded by having an A.
Deb, thanks for your support. It means a lot to me and I have drawn inspiration from your strength. I hope things are going well with you. I still struggle with the choice I have made to stay for now. But I intend to keep trudging on like you said.
Slowly- Thanks for the nudge to accountability. Its easy to talk the talk. But putting it into action,that's another thing entirely.
We cross posted at same time. I am going to meet H in Vegas on August 4th. So haven't gone yet. I fully intend to go so I'll let you know how it goes.
On the smothering thing. It must be a self esteem thing with me as well. I never thought of it that way. I was thinking that maybe i wanted from H all the attention I never got from my father who is a recovering alcoholic with whom I have very little to do with.
But you may be right it may be a self esteem thing. What you say about wantign to be H's life is so true. I feel that his wanting me in his life is not enough. I do wnat to BE his life.
I recognise this is unhealthy. I need to think on it more. Right now I don't see how to change that. I understand in my mind that GAL should help but don't see it with my heart.
Happy 4th of July everybody. Hope its great for you.
Oh, yes--the dad thing. I have the same dad issues. Mine is an alcoholic too but not recovering. He just didn't know how to express his feelings to me. I know that now. He never really paid attention to me unless I was in trouble for something. I know he loves me but he wasn't the kind of dad that I think most girls want. The dad who thinks you are a princess. He is very selfish and puts himself first. I don't have much to do with him anymore either. I do love him, but we just don't have a relationship and I was very hurt by some of the verbal abuse I got from him. He did the best he could and I believe I forgive him but I just don't want to be around him right now. And yes, this does affect my relationship with H. And my first H too. I know I tried to manipulate them both into feeling the way I thought they should and expressing it the way I thought they should. Part of the reason my first H left. Both of them have some similarities to each other and my dad. I guess we choose what is familiar to us.
But this time I am actually changing some things about me because I want to be a more positive, loving person--regardless of whether I get back the very same thing in the very same way I give it.
It's a long, hard road sometimes, but it took me 44 years to be the negative, self conscious, victim I was. It's going to take a little while to change, but I'm working on it. You are going to be great no matter how your M turns out.
Quote: I am pondering setting an initial time deadline of Dec 05 to stay in the M and not make accusations etc. no matter
I found this very helful in my sitch, I'm not sure why. I remember LAST year setting a deadline of hanging on till March 1; then last august I decided to hang on until June, which would get S12 through the school year. Then in January, I decided to make June 1 also the deadline to go to without mentioning ow...it was hard, I missed that one. but somehow having in my mind that I would go to that point in time and then re-evaluate helped me. It was sort of like "I don't have to do this the rest of my life, I only have to do this until..." and it helped it to seem a tiny bit less overwhelming.
Quote: I asked H to call as I worry that he's arrived safely etc. There is a 3 hour time difference. But I had expected H to arrive there at about 7pm my time. I waited for his call. When he hadn't called by 9:30 I was pretty disappointed. I was a bit tearful and felt that H was playing power/control games again.
I tried to be reasonable and thought that ok maybe H was really tired, maybe there was some snafu at the hotel. He'll call in the morning. Usually I would think that H just doesn't care and maybe even call H and be upset and tell him how he was being uncaring etc. I tried to remind myself that this was not all about me only and what I wanted or felt I needed.
Wow Hopeful -- I just did a very similiar thing tonight. It was 7pm and I hadn't heard from H yet. I thought he had told me he would be off this evening and I was getting irritated. I called and got his voicemail. Really getting irritated. About 10 minutes later he texted me. By that time I was totally upset and I sent back "What am I not worthy of a phone call". To make a long story short -- he had fallen asleep after getting home as he was tired -- he's been working horrendous hours lately. When he finally got my voicemail he thought I was already in the store and decided that a text message would be less disruptive. So instead of being considerate of him and how he must be tired. I was only thinking of myself and being irrational and totally over emotional.
Your story just really pointed out to me how ridiculous I acted tonight. Learning from each other is definately a benefit to this message board.
As far as the RL clothes -- practice "thought-stopping". It does help. It's hard and many times I don't do a good job of it. But the more you try it, the easier it gets. When I'm doing well, I can think to myself -- are these thoughts helping me or hurting me -- if they are hurting me and causing negative feelings then those thoughts must be stopped. But I'm not always doing a good job -- so I understand how thoughts can get away with you.
So no more crazy-making for either one of us -- let's stop those thoughts and not let them get us down
Keep up the good work!! Are you getting excited about your trip to Vegas? I'm really hoping for a mini-vacation in the next few weeks. Take care TJ
Hi guys. I am looking forward to my Vegas trip. But... There always seems to be a but. I think I have been obssessing about this monogamy thing too much. I went online and was researching it. Seems most people think that men can't be monogamous.
And that women need to accept and understand this. THat is just too much for me. I get very angry over the whole thing.
Even I will confess to the point of wondering if having an A. of my own will make me feel less like a fool who was betrayed and taken advantagel of. I went on Peggy Vaughn's site and was reading about her H's first a. and how "thrilled' he was and how distant he became with her.
Of course I started transferring this with my H and wondering about possible ow who is giving him RL clothes. Wondering things like
Is he bored with me Don't I excite him He's distant (I begin to imagine) just lie Peggy's H was. He lies to me, he's hiding his true self, life etc. Why can't we have a real relationship.
ANd the crazymaking , depressing thoughts go on and on, round and round.I swore I would not call H again and wait for him to call me. But this AM after hearing about the terrible terrorist attacks in the UK I called as I knew he would worry about his kids who live there.
THe kids also called home to say they were okay and I then called him back to let him know. H did not answer the phone at 6am. OF course me- wonder where he is.
At 7 H answer's phone. Seems tired and sleepy. He talks about what he's been up to. Censoring I am sure. Said he had beers late last night. Of course I am thinking H has someone in room with him. Then from conversation I figured maybe not.
Ok so I a driving myself completely NUTS!!!
Deb- I have to remember that I have given myself a timeline in which to DB and not accuse or freak etc. Its the only way I can survive this. It is exhausting me.
On a positive note. H did seem to want to talk and asked how things were going here. I am having problems with work because i think way unreasonable demands are being made. H and I talked about my leaving job.
Don't know. But H remembered and asked how things are going with that and if I had had any furhter meetings or problems with a particular person here at work.
Also H talked about how he's waiting to do certain stuff with me when I get there. So I guess I am on his radar.
I am upset- on the P.Vaughn site she mentions that most men think of the A. as an addition to their M and not as competing with it. IF that is the case how will I ever get my H to stop having them?!!!
Ok I don't know why I stay away from the BB when I am down. It really helps me to read what other people are dealing with and triumphing over.
I know that monogamy is hard to achieve for lots of men. But it is not impossible. My H and I have had lots of talks and he even said to me that it was important to keep the M on a positive, even keel so that when temptation comes you think hard about whether you want to go there.
That said as dbf says on Deb's thread-the a was not about me. I do think some of the stuff I did contributed to it and I want to and intend to change those things.
I am not boring or unexciting.
I will keep dbing, keep thought stopping, keep the negative demons at bay. I will change my life and me for the better.
And I can try to be the best me there is and hopefully save my M in the process.
On way home from work was trying to put myself in shoes of person who has an a. Thinking of how if it made me feel good why would I care about cheating on H especially if I thought he would not find out.
And thought flashed across my mind- boy I would have to be pretty mad at H to do something like that. It would be a resentment anger kind of thing. And I wonder if that is what it was for H.
I have gotten strong feeling from talks with H that this is what was uppermost in his mind. He said recently that if we were having problems it was all my fault because I made everything a problem.
So I think there is a lot of anger and resentment on H's part toward me. I think it would have been about op just being there available and making H feel wanted and good. Not about loving them or wanting to be with them more than me.
I am just trying to go through this in my mind because I think it will help me to figure out what went wrong and maybe how to fix it. I think there is still a lot of anger and resentment on H's part. Its because I have been giving him a hard time.
I don't know how to lighten up and not make things an issue. Have to think of ways to do this.
One way will be to shut up and when in doubt do nothing. Also 'act as if'. Need to read up on this in DR.
I have also been noticing how anchorless I feel without H. I think I really depend on him to do a lot for me. This is not right I think it is a burden on H.
I need to think more on why and how I do this. Will post more later
