I forgot to tell you- thanks for reminding me that I can't control H only me. I need to remind myself of that. To drop the rope.
I realise that I use the "I will D you" as a threat, a warning, an attempt to get H to do what I want him to do i.e. not cheat.
But I do often remind myself that his choices are his, his life is his to live- even though I am in his life and his choices affect me- I can't force him to act a certain way or do or not do a certain thing.
I think this is key for me. I want to control things. I want to control H. I need to learn that I can't and more importantly to stop tryign to do it.
Quote: Okay I get the act as if and showing H that I trust him aspect but would it be a good thing to show him that I don't care whether he messes around or not?
The point I'm trying to make here is twofold.
You need to show him that you will be fine whether he messes around or not. You will be fine with him or without him.
The second is only something you can decide for yourself. You have to figure out where your own personal/moral boundary is on this issue. It would be good for you to figure out where the line in the sand is. This is not the same as the "I'll file for D" dance you were talking. This is your honest-to-goodness-how-much-can-I-tolerate boundary. Only you can determine where that line is. You don't even necessarily need to communicate it to H, but you need to know where it is for yourself, so you know when you've hit it.
I think that is probably where I messed up in my own sitch. I didn't clearly define my own boundary for myself, and by the time SO crossed it, it was too late and I blew like a volcano.
The more mature way to handle this is to define it ahead of time so you can recognize when its been crossed.
Hi Hope, I wanted to stop by and touch base...actually I read your thread (lurk!) most of the time....but don't post often because I don't know what to add. I need to be better about just saying "hi" to folks....
Quote: would it be a good thing to show him that I don't care whether he messes around or not?
I've grappled with this an awfully lot, and it's tough. I came to the conclusion in my case that I needed to let H know, as calmly and firmly as possible, that it DID matter to me if he was messing around, and it WASNT ok...and then to drop the issue most of the time. Every so often when things would come to light, I would reiterate that this was not acceptable and I wasnt going to live with it forever....
One thing that I think is important, but i found really tricky, is that I needed to base what I told him on what I needed in my life/needed to do for my own well-being, and not on the hope that some how my actions or words would cause him to respond in a certain way (the way I wanted, of course)! That's really really tough, for me anyway, but I feel like it's important. Important because in my sitch, my H has this "teenage rebellion" (ML?) streak that makes him go into "you don't like it????ok, watch this" mode....but somehow expressing what I have to have in my life for ME is different than saying things in the hope that he'll do what I want. I guess it still leaves the choice up to him.
It's sooooooooooooo hard not to be seeking the reassurance. I find myself starting to get anxious this afternoon because I've not had any emails from him since lunchtime. Listing positives always helps me to regain my equilibrium; keeping busy does also.
it's just so darn tough, isnt it? I think you're doing well, though.
Okay now I understand. I asked the question because (my pyschanalysis anyway) I think that because H's father was a terrible womaniser and his mom accepted it and then H's first wife accepted it that he thinks this is how M works.
I need him to know it is not how M works and that it is not acceptable. H has said to me that he could not understand that I would want to end our M or leave him over infidelity.
This amazes me since I made it clear to H from day one that it was not acceptable to me. I am concerned that having come back he thinks that he can do this again and "get away" with it.
Martha, I have thought about it a lot. I don't know where to draw the line in the sand. I always thought I was the kind of woman that one strike and your're out when it came to cheating.
But I couldn't and did not do that. I love my H. He is a very good H in lots of other ways. Now that I focus more on his positive qualities things seem to only get better in that regard.
But and its a huge but, infidelity is for me a deal breaker. As much as it would break my heart to do it, if H does this again it will be the end. So I guess I have drawn a line in the sand.
I say I haven't because there is a small part of me that wonders if I really would end it. You see I think that H's past and family past has coloured the way he behaves. I think he does love me but somehow thinks this type of thing is acceptable(don't ask me how)!
Deb, my H has the teenage rebellion thing going as well! Telling him not to do something is guaranteed that he will do it. Its so juvenile, I mean my H is 46!But that's why its so important for me not to try to cotrol him.
I did say I would list 3 positives so here goes:
H and I ML this am We are hanging out together this evening. H arranged to have my car taken into the shop H said to me that he knows what he has and its what he wants meaning me
H said he wants me to be happy and will support me if I want to quit my job
I don't know what happened but today I am angry, sad, depressed. I feel like crying, screaming, smashing something. Yesterday H and I went to the beach. We were fine. We did not have any long R talks as there had been no major negative events.
First time in 3 wks that we have gotten through a week without a major backslide from me. As I told you guys I am trying hard not to backslide before H leaves for his business trip on Wednesday.
I don't know what happened. Last evening H went to get us some food. I stayed in the car. I'm looking at H through the window and wondering how he could have betrayed me so. As matter of fact I was thinking this on the drive back home. Looking at him and wondering if I really know him at all.
I started thinking how H must have been laughing at me behind my back, how he msut think he had me fooled, how he must be just using me to make his life comfortable. You know the good W at home and all the cake he wants on the outside.
I started thinking about the women's phone numbers I saw in H's phone. Now I remember that all this started when I mentioned my new secretary's name. She has the same name as a name I saw in h's phone which he lied about (I think).
And the thoughts started from there. I felt H must be remembering this girl who from her name must be quite young etc. etc. I got home thinking that although H erased all the numbers from his phone they must be somewhere and that he is still contacting these ow.
I suspected it was in his diary. Cuz he always has that thing with him. I thought I would snoop in it. I didn't get the chance although I remember looking in it last year and not finding anything.
I then tried to hack into H's email. I got completely crazy. I felt this rage overwhelm me. I felt like I hate H and want him out of my life.
I wondered if I really love H or is he just convenient like i must be for him. Do I even know what love is.
I looked at myself in the mirror and wondered who would wnat me? I was not feeling in a good place.
Pouring it all out here somehow makes me feel a little better. I think I am angry at myself for not having the life I want. I feel that everyone thinks i am a fool for staying with H including H. ANd that its just a matter of time before he does it again if he isn't already.
I am stuck home doing housework today while H is out with his hunting buddies and my best GF is at a spa with her other fancy friends. Okay I am having a pity party for one.
If it helps even the smallest amount, I can remember similar moments while first piecing. Didn't you say that things had been going really well and positively? Sounds like the "perfect" time for your demons to rise up and point a few fingers...you know, the fear takes over when things look good.
Good for you for looking at it square in the face and very bravely. Do something extra special for yourself today, ok?
BTW, as I'm sure you know...the insecurity feeds on itself...so snooping, hacking, etc, will all increase the panic (well, IMHO).
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
It does help. A lot! I did notice the pattern and realise the demons are raising their heads. I am determined not to give in. I would hate to be on the outs with H just before he goes off on a business trip.
Its almost as if the better things seem the scarier it feels for me. I start wondering if he's making a fool of me again, is he cheating, is he bored with me,does he think this is all a joke etc.
Its as if sabotaging the R is the only thing that brings any relief. But I see the pattern and I will not do it this time.
I am reminding myself about all the ways H has shown me that he wants this M more than anything. Even my MC said that given H's paranoia about being private that the fact that H would even come to therapy showed how very much he wants to save the M.
I guess I don't know how to say this. I don't want to say this. I can't keep doing this. As I mentioned before H is going away on business trip. I was helping him pack and what do I see but yup the infamous Ralph Lauren clothes.
In my previous thread I detailed how H wore a red Ralph Lauren polo shirt to go out. It was a Sunday in January jsut after the new year started. Now H is not the kind of guy to buy RL stuff. He is a very basic kind of guy.
He also has a thing about not buying something with someone else's name blazoned on it. Just today he mentioned that he went shopping for a baseball hat and bought a generic one cheap instead of the expensive designer one. He mentioned that he could nto believe the brand name one was so expensive just because of the brand name.
Anyway back in January. I asked H where he got the shirt. He claimed it was hanging in the closet for a long while. Now I know every piece of clothing in our closet. In our home for that matter. And a bright red shirt I would have noticed especially as H does nto own anything else red.
We were going out. I told H that I had already told him that if he was doing it again (an A) that that would be the end as I was not prepared to accept it. He said he knew this and denied that anyone had given him the shirt.
Later I checked his closet drawers and found a bright blue RL pair of shorts (a color H would never buy for self) and a pair of long black RL pants with a blue waist band. I searched through all H's things to make sure I knew what was in there.
I decided to let this go as I figured maybe some old GF had given it to H and felt that he was not involved in an A. Yesterday he's packign and brought out some new tshirts. I asked where he got them. He said he had bought them some time ago with some others he used for exercise.
I remembered that he had in fact bought extra ts which he had not yet used. I jokingly said "Any RL stuff in there?" and H said "You know once you see anythign you don't remember you think some ow gave it to me"
Well back to the story. I was packing his suitcase for him. He had selected what he wanted to wear and jsut thrown it into the suitcase on the understanding that I would pack it properly for him.
So I don't get why he would do something as stupid as he did. There they were two brand new RL shorts. Now H and I went on a short trip over a long weekend in May. I was looking for shorts to pack for him. These were not in his drawer. A black short pair with red waistband and a blue/purple pair.
I got upset instantly. I kept packing and did not say anything to H. But you could feel the temperature drop. At least I could. H tried to be playful and I did not respond. He asked what was wrong and I said nothing.
I went into our bedroom and H followed and hugged me from behind and asked what's the matter. I told him I had promised myself that I would not get upset with H before he left on his trip and that I did not want to talk about it.
I started to cry a bit, just silent tears and told H nto to touch me. I left and went downstairs. After a little while I came back up.H then went down and started eating junk from the fridge a sure sign he's bothered.
I went down and sat silently. H asked what was bugging me and I said I did nto want to talk about it as H had already come home in a bad mood and he would only take it out on me.
Later we went to bed. H sleeping on floor. I told him I wnated to tell him something. I told him why I was upset. Then I told him that we were both adults and that H could live his life any way he wanted to as it was his life. But that I did not want to live my life a certain way.
I told H that I wnated it to me only the two of us in the M and not any third party. H denied that he was seeing any one else or getting gifts from anyone. He also said that if I thought he would put the shorts there knowing I was packing and would see them.
Makes no sense to me but as I said to him his RL wardrobe has now grown to five RL shorts! Now I know his sister had given him two of them years ago which he doesn't really wear. But where did the other three come from? Especially the latest two.
H said that everything in the closet was either something he bought or a gift from his mom,sister or my cousin who works with him. I told him exactly and I knew everything they had given him so he could not say these were gifts from them and he also could not say he bought them for himself as he wouldn't buy stuff like that for himself.
H insisted that I was nuts and that there was no trust in the M and he was fed up with this and my accusations. I asked him where this left us. He said he was telling me the truth which I did not believe so that we would go apart eventually.
I told H I would not turn a blind eye and would give him a hard time about stuff like that and was nto prepared to accept it.
He said I either had to turn a blind eye which I did nto need to do as there was nothign to turn a blind eye to or I had to start trusting him. I told him not to take me for a fool.
I mean WTF is up with him? Could he really be soooo stupid or think that I am soooooo stupid????? This must mean that this has been goign on for six months all while I was trying desperately to save the M and H telling me how much he loved me.
I am done. I am fed up. I don't know what to do. I don't think I can continue this way and think that when H goes off on his trip I will move out. Let him do whatever the f@$k he wants. I feel like the man I thought I loved and who loves me does not exist. Its all a game to him.
Any thoughts welcome. I am bracing myself to find a way through this. I see S and then D as the only answer now.
H said that I dont believe him and at the drop of a hat accuse him of ow. He says he cant rip out his heart and write it in blood for me that there is no one else and that he can only speak one language, English and I dont believe him so he doesn't care any more and I can do whatever I wnat.
He says he wants piece of mind and if I am going to stay don't give him a hard time otherwise go live my life with whoever I wnat or alone. He's pretty p'od.
But I think I am the wronged one. I know i did not imagine that those shorts were not there before. The funny thing is that for the last few months I really did not get sense that H was up to anything. I don't feel like he is or was in throes of an A. I don't get it
