Good morning all, I see my thread locked so it's time to get started again.
Pam and Ellie, thanks for stopping in yesterday on my thread. I've been thinking a lot about a lot of things in the last few days/couple of weeks. This has been such a long and often painful journey, it's been really tough to go the whole way. it's really taken strength that I never knew I had. so, some of my musings from recent days:
I've come to realize that what led H to be so open to an affair was his own lack of/loss of self-esteem, and also my distance from him. to expand on both of those a little: H grew up in a large, very very strict and emotionally unexpressive family. He is the oldest child. He has never felt that his parents truly loved and respected him, that they always favored his other siblings. From my point of view, they do favor the others, greatly; but they do love him, they are just very "old school" people who have the "stiff upper lip" code of honor for their oldest, who had the unfortunate lot to be male as well. What that means for H is that he's always felt sad and lost in that nothing he could ever do would win their love and approval.
he managed to compensate for all this very well for a long long time, with a lot of accomplishments, etc., until he began to approach the mid-life evaluation period. by this time, the two of us honestly had grown apart... busy with kids, and our own parallel lives....so, no wonder he jumped for any kind of relief/distraction from his sadness and loneliness.
GAL has been an issue for me in my db'ing efforts. thousands of times people have brought that to my attention as a need. I've probably never posted much about this before, but one reason it's been such a delicate issue for me to approach is that years ago, probably 10 years ago, which is when I really think some of the mlc stuff started for H, I GOT a life. I sensed H withdrawing and pulling away from me, becoming more absorbed in his weight lifting etc. (odd how perspectives change, that used to infuriate me, now I encourage it to the hilt!)I was resentful and angry and responded by increasing my distance. I distinctly recall telling myself one sunshiny afternoon, "Ok, if he's gonna be like that, I'm gonna live my life the best I can, and I'll do what I want to do"....and I did. I was gone as much as I possibly could be. spent no time with him. left it all to him, thinking "if I go my own way, surely he'll come after me". It didnt work, we just grew further and further apart because, I believe, that his distance was related to needs that he desperatly needed to have met that werent met by my distance.
In a very real sense, I've been concerned that continuing my "me" GAL mode would have been doing "more of the same" that hadnt EVER worked. What seemed to have more of a chance of working, after a lot of careful thought and introspection, was to "do something different" by trying to discern his emotional needs and begin to meet them, a little bit at a time, in very small ways at first because he wouldnt even let me in for a long time. That idea came from "The Special As-If Attitude" post that ChristineE sent me a long long time ago, good heavens, probably a year and 1/2. Christine, if you ever read this, I'm forever in your debt for that, and havent forgotten. I really believe that was a big part of what gave me any chance at success.
Underneath it all, H is a very spiritual person, as I believe I am, and this probably makes sense but I mean that outside of the context of religion....hard to describe, I guess. but there were some different "nuances" of db'ing styles that I picked up on here that I used to kind of "piece together" what seemed like would work from the standpoint that they "spoke" to me inwardly some how. again hard to describe. but the ones that seemed most appropriate for me were based on a positive outlook and focus, of meeting needs and offering unconditional love while striving to maintain one's own sanity....Of looking at one's own part of the equation rather than imposing external sanctions that focus entirely on the errant spouse. Thanks to all of you who have been so helpful in my efforts to see through my own pain and distress to "the other side"....
Pamila posted to me the other day about "where is your self-repect"....and I've been pondering that a great lengths as well...it's an important question. Ellie mentioned there's a fine line sometimes between reaching out with unconditional love and being a doormat, and that is so true. As I've thought about my self-respect, i've really dug deep here. There have been many many, countless times, when I have worried about that, been terribly upset by "what must people think", what kind of a wimp do I look like, and on and on..............What I've come to realize is that my self respect does not lie solely in my marriage or in my role as a wife. It never has. It's based on my personal code of ethics, which so far I've managed not to violate, my personal accomplishments in academics and professionally (not huge by many standards, but I've done a lot and done it all on my own from fortifyingly humble beginnings), not to mention the values and character that I see in my children. So, I've concluded that the fact that my self respect is deeply internalized and verified by many external sources besides my marriage maybe gives me a little more flexibility to "go with the flow" sometimes.
I also have to say I've surprised my self in my response to H's A....I ALWAYS believed I knew exactly how I would handle him cheating on me, which was to boot his sorry a$$ out the door, no ifs, ands, buts, or questions asked. period. end of discussion. That's the way I handled a cheating fiance a lifetime ago (which was the right response then)....obviously I've done the exact opposite. I guess it just proves the accuracy of the old adage "never say never".....
so, my weird musings for the week/month are here. probably makes no sense at all, but writing about them helps me in a free-floating kind of way.
just a quick update. I got home a little after 9 last night, and H was watching TV, had walked and done his work out. which frankly, and I know, lots of assumptions and analyzing here, but I believe it means he wasnt spending time "chatting" with ow. We talked for awhile, just pleasant discussion of our days, and turned in pretty early from being pooped. and slept.
this morning, H was pleasant and cheerful and loving. I stood in the doorway and watched him shave as I do every now and then anymore...and I said "I don't think I've told you, but it certainly is nice to have you here". And H started talking again....weird. He said "thank you, it's so nice to be here and I'm glad I am"....said it is such a relief to be "off the rollercoaster" (hmmmmm, now where have I heard that before?) that she (ow) is such a fit throwing/foot stamping/emotionalobsessive "mess" that it was making him crazy and wearing him out. I commented that "well, I know I can be pretty obsessive sometimes" and H actually shuddered and shook his head and said "I mean for weeks and weeks and months on end, and over and over and over until I just cant stand it anymore" huh...how about that, some one who's more obsessive than I am???? H said that he couldnt stand the person "she" was turning him into, (I have heard him say this before) that he was so angry at the world all the time, that really isnt "him" and he doesnt like that in himself. Then he said "she has really made me appreciate you"...I hugged him, but couldnt resist a snickered "I don't think I'm ready to send a thank-you note yet"...H just smiled and hugged me back. the two of us spent some time running around the house feeding S's 6 lizards before I came to work....and actually had fun doing it...go figure, always before H has insisted he hated them, would have nothing to do with them, this morning he was like ...."hey come here and watch this" and had started feeding them on his own before I got there. He talked this morning about how much our home and family and I and the children and the dog and the cat and even the lizards mean to him.....I'd have suspected everything but....the lizards???? although they are interesting critters.
I will be going home soon, H was talking about how nice it will be to have the whole weekend together , although he did comment that he may have some weekends when he has to do things , but I chose to let that go.
I've commented several times lately that "something is different" this time, but I havent been able to put my finger on it. As I was leaving for work this morning it hit me....the BIG difference this time is that H seems at peace now....and frankly he seems happy. much much more the guy I knew and loved so much years ago. The emotional upheaval that has seethed beneath his skin for so long doesnt seem to be there now. It's hard to explain, but it so distinct. that began to dawn on me when he started talking as he was shaving this morning. I only hope and pray that it can last this time.
His expressions of appreciation for "home" and all that entails are different also...I guess always before it was kind of like he was running from something, seeking refuge at home from a storm, when he "came back"...and there was always a tremendous amount of emotional angst and distress. That seems to be gone this time.
Ellie, you mentioned the fun person he's been missing....yeah, she's working hard on getting back in there now....I am so looking forward to this weekend. this will make 3 in a row he hasnt been at ow's. I'm not sure what the record is, I'm thinking somewhere between 4 and 6.....
I am glad that some of my questions provoked some thought. I hope that you found that to be valuable.
Only you can decide how the piecing thing is progressing in your M.
When I came back to visit the board I was sad but not surprised that your H and OW saga was still continuing and that they were in yet another break up situation. But it did throw me a little to see history repeating itself, and you repeating many of the same things that you were saying months ago.
I know it's hard when you look at something every day under the microscope and someone else comes in with the panoramic camera.
I do understand your GAL points, but I think that the GAL idea was never to run away from home doing stuff w/o H all the time but to find the balance. GAL to become the woman you always wanted to be, always knew you were. Not necessarily to make your H miss you, but so that you found yourself.
For me GAL has meant finding myself so that I actually had a satisfying life of my own beyond my life with H. My R with my kids is better and stronger than ever. I have developed new frienships, honed old talents, and thrown caution to the wind. (at least as much as possible for someone like me ) I know esp. that my female friendships are really really important for me.
GAL has given me the footings that will see me into my "next life" - a life that looks to be one w/o H.
I always always always wish you well on your journey. Know that for sure.
Quote: I do understand your GAL points, but I think that the GAL idea was never to run away from home doing stuff w/o H all the time but to find the balance. GAL to become the woman you always wanted to be, always knew you were. Not necessarily to make your H miss you, but so that you found yourself.
I agree with Pam on this one. Imo You are "GAL"-ing in that you are doing that something "different" with how you are relating to your H. You mentioned that you used to be gone all of the time and pretty much DID have your own life. Just be careful. You don't want to be at the opposite end of the spectrum .. looking like you don't have a life now .. appearing to be needy/clingy, etc. Like Pam said there is a "balance" to to all of this and you need to find the "balance" that works for you. I'm thinking that your H must not mind that you bring up OW .. from how you've written here how he responds to you. My H would get extremely irritated/upset if I ever brought up the "situation". I learned to stay completely away from any OW topics. Just be careful about bringing it up too often. I've been told (back then) that it feels like I was just using every opportunity that I could to throw it in his face.
On your antidepressants .. my H also complained of antidepressants his doc put him on that pretty much made him feel "nothing". He finally went back (several times) and tried different antidepressant prescriptions. He is doing much better (now) on a different prescription. What you currently have (did you say Prozac?) is definitely not the only antidepressant out there. I'd say maybe you need to make a trip to the doc and ask if he/she would let you try something else?? Also .. of course, I only have experience with myself and my H, but in the reading I have done on antidepressants .. this is something that you go on .. and stay on, until you are ready to gradually wean yourself off of them. I guess I never heard of just being on them a certain part of the month? Did I read that right?
I'm hoping that this weekend was a bit more peaceful for you.
I've been following your sitch. Its been a rough time for you but you seem to be coming out of it. I see lots of positives with your H.
Thanks for bringing up the GAL issue because I have had same problem with my H. He has said I don't do anything but wants me at home when he gets there.
So the GAL balance has been a confusing issue for me. Pam and tc have shed some light on it. THanks guys.
Deb you seem so much clearer to me in what you want and what you are doing. I think it is important to have set boundaries with H. Going through the OW cycle quite a few times must have been hard.
But your H has not left home. Clearly he does not want to lose you. So work with that and we are all rooting for you on the BB.
Hi Pamila and TC....yes, the balance of GAL is very difficult and tricky for me....very tough. I feel like I walk a thin line every day of trying to be caring and responsive and yet not overly clingy and whimpy...and as I was reading someones thread, the clinginess rears it's head when my insecurities are highest. and I hate it.
TC, you write:
Quote: I'm thinking that your H must not mind that you bring up OW .. from how you've written here how he responds to you. My H would get extremely irritated/upset if I ever brought up the "situation". I learned to stay completely away from any OW topics. Just be careful about bringing it up too often. I've been told (back then) that it feels like I was just using every opportunity that I could to throw it in his face.
I just realized this morning that this is another thing that is DIFFERENT now than in the past. Now H is patient with me, and I think makes an effort to be reassuring (although I'm terrible anxious, and in my opinion his efforts pale in contrast to the level of my anxieties. H no longer gets angry...he tells me to "stop having bad dreams" and "stop worrying", and that my asking is ok....in the past, he would BLOW UP, well not quite, but get very irritable and angry and walk away, if I said or asked anything at all about the a/ow...he instantly became angry...now, as I said, he is patient and calm and I think trying to be reassuring. I did have nightmares last night that he left with ow...mentioned it this morning, and that's when he said "well stop dreaming that"...I said (I know, dumb dumb move)"so you don't think you'll go back?" and his reply was "no I don't think I'll go back" yeeeesh, I gotta get past this....I know you're so right TC about bringing this up and beating him in the face with it. I told H I was sorry for being so anxious, and trying to work on it, but really struggling...he said "I know, and I understand the anxiety, but it is hard to deal with" but still, all that was said with no anger or animosity, and before he would never admit that there was any reason for me to be anxious, in fact he would pretty much blame it all on me...so, his patience is different. I don't know what it means, I'd be interested in what anyone else has seen/experience that's similar, or what their "take" might be.
In regards to the antidepressants:
Quote: I guess I never heard of just being on them a certain part of the month? Did I read that right?
Yes, that's right TC. That's evidently a pretty standard treatment currently for the emotional aspects of PMS (it has a new name now, but anyway)...and actually Prozac is the drug approved and marketed for the treatment in this manner. It's (Prozac) been renamed and re-targeted at a new market after the patent expired....It's now called "Sera-Fem" in it's new "guise" for use in this manner. My physician just prescribes good ole generic prozac, same dose and same schedule, rather than buying into the drug companies new money making schemes, so it costs me about 7 bucks a month instead of over 100. Actually it works quite well, and I feel more "leveled out" rather than "zoned out" when I take it that way, as I said it's just figuring out when the heck to take it anymore. maybe I just need a lower dose on a continual basis. I did try lexapro, one of the newest AD's, but I didnt think I did one bit better on it, it made me really sick to my stomach, and it's much more expensive.
I'll post about the weekend in a bit, not bad really, just weird still. H was home all weekend....Frankly, I think several months of not "doing" "Paperwork" on Saturdays would be the most helpful thing of all for me. On the other hand, I know that it is realistic that there will be sometimes when he does have to catch up on "overflow"....and it will be really tough to deal with.
Hi Hope, thanks for stopping by. I read your new piecing thread this morning, I'll try to keep up with you. I see so many similarities in our sitchs. as I recall you are struggling with exactly the same stuff I am, esp. the trust and anxiety issues..............
Quote: But your H has not left home. Clearly he does not want to lose you.
Frankly, this is a huge point of confusion for me....I cant understand this. It's been over 2 years now that he's been seeing the whore....if it was so great, and so bad with us, WHY THE HECK IS HE STILL HERE????????????????? I can't understand this, and it really messes up my mind. I read a book (written for the ow) that says if a guy hasnt left his family/wife within 3 months, it ain't gonna happen. If he hasnt stopped sleeping with his wife, he's not gonna leave.
I dunno, it all messes up my mind. I guess maybe someday I will have to ask him about this.
Quote: Frankly, I think several months of not "doing" "Paperwork" on Saturdays would be the most helpful thing of all for me. On the other hand, I know that it is realistic that there will be sometimes when he does have to catch up on "overflow"....and it will be really tough to deal with.
You know - I think it's okay, if the time comes that he really does have to go in, for you to go in with him. Bring some paperwork of your own. Surely, if he's sincere in reconciling, he'll understand. And he might even enjoy the company
ok, weekend update...not a lot to report, except that sometimes I swear, I do feel like the Devil himself follows me around trying to get his digs and claws in at me... and sometimes I just want to scream "enough already"...so ok, I was thinking alot about Ellies post about remembering to work on the fun loving woman that H wants/needs but thought he'd lost. ok, so I'm gearing up for that, and.....then....the period I havent had for 3 months starts, with a vengence, like 3 months at once and 3 months worth of cramps to go with it. enough to make me want to crawl in a corner and hide in the dark. I even called in sick to work yesterday. It seems to be evening out a little today, thank God, so maybe it wont be one of those 3-week long deals. ick.
But then it gets worse. this is horrible (and has nothing to do with H)but I was getting some things I don't use very often out of the back of a kitchen cabinet, and I discovered, a mouse had been in there. and made a horrible nasty health hazard of a mess. and then I looked in the other cabinets. and found the same thing way in the back. Evidently the contractor didnt seal the openings where pipes, etc., are, and the happy little camper made himself at home. It was horrible. I spent 1/2 of Saturday, all day Sunday and part of the day I was home yesterday taking EVERYTHING out of the cabinets, throwing away a lawn and leaf size garbage bag of stuff, disinfecting the cabinets and every thing that could be disinfected, sealing what the contractor should have sealed, and putting it all back. I still have 2 drawers to go. So much for being a fun exciting woman . I did put on Tom Petty while I was working though . I can't describe what an awful job it was. H helped a little, cut some materials for me and helped pull stuff out and take things to the trash, but somehow the burden fell to me. It was hideous. that's the only way to describe it. another joy of country life.
so, let's see....Friday I went to work out... my goal for the next month is to get there 3X a week, no matter what...on the way home, I stopped by a craft store...I'm walking down an aisle, and who do I walk right into? yep, ow/whore...she looked alternately like she wanted to run, throw up, and stomp on me....gave me that ugly mean-eyed cold look I've seen before. Then she turned around, and this is an awful thing to notice/comment about, but she dresses like an old man whose clothes don't fit. I have never seen pants fit a woman like hers did. somehow she had them pulled way up on the sides, and the middle back of the waist pulled way down so it kind of made a "U"...which, because the sides were pulled so high, meant that her pants in the rear made a big circle pulled right around her butt, which stuck out in the middle of the circle. I kept thinking it made a perfect target for me to kick...I laughed right out loud, couldnt help it.
When I got out to the parking lot, the b---h had parked right next to me. Sound familiar? and it had to be purposeful, there were only a few cars in the lot at the time, and she had to recognize my vehicle. Later in the evening I mentioned it to H...he said "she gave you the cold eyes?" kind of surprised like, and then said "well I don't imagine she's very happy right now"...when I mentioned her parking next to me, he said "maybe that's the only place that was left...when I told him it wasnt, the lot was pretty much empty, he didnt say much. He did comment "maybe you can be friends someday"...to which I commented without thinking, kind of an outburst "why the hell would I want or need a friend like that". h looked shocked, and said "well, friendly maybe"....I just looked at him and said "I don't think so, it's to everyones advantage for her to stay as far away from me as she can and vice versa"...then h said "she's not a bad person" which I did not enjoy hearing. but i didnt discuss it, just walked off.
later that evening, at some point H commented "it's nice to know you still want me" I don't recall what brought that comment up, I know there wasnt a discussion going on, seems like it was kind of out of the blue...I said "did you really think I didn't or wouldn't" and he said "yes, for years I thought that"...I said "did you want me all those years?" and he said "yes"....I got kind of teary eyed and hugged him, and said something about how I hated it that we got so far off track with each other"....a couple of nice hugs and kisses happened then.
Saturday morning, H initiated ML, but couldnt perform very well (I have no clue what brings this on), same thing happened Saturday night. I don't know if it's from stress or guilt or grief or what....I do know he hasnt been w/the w---e....Sunday H walked, seemed kinda down and despondent, I commented about it and that I was ready and able to listen if he wanted to talk, otherwise that I wanted him to know I loved him and wanted to help if he would just let me know how he needed me to help. He said he appreciated that, that just knowing and hearing that helped a lot...that I was doing fine, there wasnt much to be done differently, and "I'm just going to have some down days", that it's better on days when he's at work in the out-of-town office because he's busy....I told him I was sorry he was hurting, that I knew it had to be hard. I asked him (maybe I shouldnt have) if he thought that in the long run it would have hurt more if we had broken up, and he said "oh, yes"....
so, this morning, I already posted about the interaction about the bad dreams/"I don't think I'll go back" comments. He's here in the office where ow is today, and I've had a couple of cranky emails from him about how he hates it here. I wonder if it's because of ow, I don't know but suspect that may be part of it.
huh...how about that, some one who's more obsessive than I am???? H said that he couldnt stand the person "she" was turning him into, (I have heard him say this before) that he was so angry at the world all the time, that really isnt "him" and he doesnt like that in himself. Then he said "she has really made me appreciate you"...I hugged him, but couldnt resist a snickered "I don't think I'm ready to send a thank-you note yet"...H just smiled and hugged me back. the two of us spent some time running around the house feeding S's 6 lizards before I came to work....and actually had fun doing it...go figure, always before H has insisted he hated them, would have nothing to do with them, this morning he was like ...."hey come here and watch this" and had started feeding them on his own before I got there. He talked this morning about how much our home and family and I and the children and the dog and the cat and even the lizards mean to him.....I'd have suspected everything but....the lizards???? although they are interesting critters. 
, although he did comment that he may have some weekends when he has to do things 
, but I chose to let that go. 
) I know esp. that my female friendships are really really important for me.
. I did put on Tom Petty while I was working though 
which I did not enjoy hearing. but i didnt discuss it, just walked off.