I also found you to be an inspiration when I first read your posts about a year ago. And speaking of "alums" I understand SuprDave is still having Friday night delight, and so the schedule can work.
On Sunday the 29th my W and I made love. After that, I decided that I would stop MB, and I LOVE MB. I figured that if I were to abstain, I would be more likely to focus my attention on my W. And it worked. Within a week, we had another encounter. It's not a schedule, but I am not letting her wriggle off the hook so easily. I'm there physically expressing my desire every chance I get.
I've spent 17 years with my W, not 27, but I'm optimistic enough to believe that change can occur whenever it is wanted. And your W shows all the signs of wanting to change. My W once said to me, "You don't know how to treat me." I was hurt, but she was right. I think that your W, like mine, is much more likely to give a slight hint that she may be in the mood, than to come right out and ask for nookie. And that's OK, at least in my book.
Paul, who says the worst day of ML is better than the best day of MB
Okay I am speaking honestly. But being a SAHM mom with just a teenager at home does change things a lot. As far as her saying she is to tired or wore out. I mean come on.
Hmmm Maybe the best thing to do would be to change this routine and shake her up a little. Do share with her that this is something you would consider divorce over. I think it is great she does consider help or counseling so you have that going for you. But if she doesn't initiate that help or change I can see why you are frustrated.
Tim I am really afraid to post since I have not read your other posts and have no idea what has been done and what has not been. So please take this as a well meaning attempt without much background.
It seems to me that desire operates for different people in different ways. She clearly wanted to make love -- was naked in the bed. She clearly was turned on in the beginning -- was lubricated to begin with. But then something happend and she lost connection. There can be a hundred causes. You did something she does not like and distanced herself; she expected some action that was not there; foreplay was missing... who knows!
But that would be the nugget to work from. It feels like you are in a much better position than the normal LD/HD dillemma. I want it and s/he does not is such a vague starting point that one does not know where to go next. What is it about ML that s/he does not like seems to focus on a joint production without necessarily assigning blame.
Hi I am really not sure if I should post this or not but her goes.
I am confused I have read what you are saying and what I am seeing is that you have a decent relationship. You and your wife can communicate. From what I am reading you both show interest in each other you talk and listen to each other about the course of your day which alot of people do not take the time to do and it sounds like you speak about your relationship on a regular basis. And I am sure there are other things not mentioned be it hobbies family or children. You spend time together daily in your conversations eatting together traveling together. That again is great.It does not sound like you spend large amounts of time fighting. But that you have found a pattern and yes patterns need to be changed up some at times to stop them from becoming boring but you sound to have a healthy pattern for the most part in my opinion. And most of it sounds like it is together not apart. You are not watching TV in one room while she is watching it in another so there is a closeness and a contentment in your relationship alot of people lack. What is wrong with being content it brings along a feeling of safeness, security and selfworth. And is that not what most people crave most in life.
To me you have what most people want most. And you are thinking of throwing it away because she does not what start sex. It does not sound like she is adverse to having it she just does not pull down her pants and say lets do it.She even sounds like she is willing to say hey this is my fault you are not happy let me try to fix it. But you do not like her idea of how. Maybe the reason you are not satisfied is you have been fixing something that was broken for so long that you have not realized that is fixed just a hairline crack or two remain. I am sorry but you stated your wife is 51 not sure how old you are. But maybe you need to look around at the population of lonely people out there.That are fighting disease and old age and dying with no one to talk to and tell how much it hurts to have no one that cares or worries about them going pretty much unnoticed through there life and think is that what you want does having sex 2 times a week verses 2 times a month mean so much that you would trade places with those people.I doubt they have sex 2 times a year or have anyone to talk to about there day.
You can meet someone and have one orgasim after another every day. But you still may not have what it sounds like you have now A partner in life through thick and thin.
I am sorry if you took my response as being cruel it was not intended that way at all. Yes I did read a few post from about a year ago that was all I was able to locate.I actually found some interesting info in some posting attached to his that I have cut and pasted into my journal. These were not from Tim but in response to other posting . I liked this one in paticular Quote:
I personally see respect, trust, communication, honesty, compassion, tolerance, forgiveness, courage, determination and inegrity for self and for the other as the foundation for a marriage.
But my response was mainly from his new posting And may have been somewhat envious in response. I myself would love to have the underlying connection and togetherness that it projected to me. That is the key to ME. To me it seems he has a good relationship maybe not flawless maybe not 100 percent gratifing but what in life is really. He and his wife obviously have not always had this or he would never have been on this website So they seem to me to have come a long way .(Hence the comment that maybe you have been working on fixing this so long you have not realized it is fixed just flawed) To say I will throw all are hard work away because of something that is not totally lacking but lacking somewhat is hard for me to understand.
The reference to dying alone is probabley jaded. People fight so hard and so much about sex they tear themselves and others that they love apart they put so much emphasis on that one aspect with all types of reasons I need it I want it It is part of the package its love ect. But in truth at some point in your life you are going to get older and either medically or physically chances are that same person that it was the all almighty important thing to is not going to be able to perform this function often or at all. After spending all those years screaming about it. (Sorta ironic God has his ways). So this in mind should the other person walk out say well love ya will miss talking to you but not enough sex from you gotta go. Thats not what you would expect you would expect them to remain with you loving you spending time with you being your partner in life not just bed. Love to me is not sex is not based on sex is not even a large part of the meaning. My wedding vows were not to love honor and have sex. It said charish. Maybe I am projecting my asperations. My wants to have and know I have someone as life goes on will talk to me. Hold my hand and walk through the woods with me. Watch home movies of our kids growing up with me. Stay with me if I do not feel well. And act interested in me not just when we are inbetween the sheets. And yes occassionally have sex with me. This is what I want and maybe a little envious because what I read is this person has this and is not satisfied with that.
Chrissy, You obviously want someone to spend quality time with you and show their love to you in this way. Tim49 wants his wife to show her love in a more physical way. There is nothing wrong with either way--I think the sooner you internalize that truth, the better your chances for finding the happiness you are talking about.
I would assume that you are a "LD," or low-desire person?
I'd also assume that you are a person who's "love language" is probably "Quality Time," and not "Physical Touch?" (have you read Gary Chapman's "Five Love Languages"?)
I can let Tim speak for himself, but you do sound like you have no basic understanding of just how STRONG the desire is in a High-Desire/Physical Touch person to have these things in their life. It is the very way that we feel loved, and it is NOT "just about sex."
I read your post to Tim and while I cringed at some of the things you said, I also understand where you are coming from. You're right in the fact that many people would love to have what he has...but the sad fact of the matter is that his W still doesn't make him feel loved in the way he needs.
Others on here have already recommended the book "The Five Love Languages", if you haven't already picked it up and read it...do so, it'll give you a clearer understanding of why Tim still isn't where he'd like to be in his M.
I'm an HDW w/an LDH....who is very nearly a perfect husband in every way....but one; and unfortunately that one area he's lacking in, is a primary need of mine....it's a way of communicating love for me. Of course he's able to communicate this in other ways for me as well...but when ONE primary area is out of whack, that happens to be your primary love language....it can throw everything off kilter.
Please do pick up the book and read it if you haven't already....it might hold several clues to your situation as well, and it's an easy read.
Quote: But in truth at some point in your life you are going to get older and either medically or physically chances are that same person that it was the all almighty important thing to is not going to be able to perform this function often or at all.
So, in the mean time, 20 or 30 years before this aging process happens a HD person has all of these feelings inside boiling away about to blow the safety valve so much so that resentment damages the M and when you get older and don't produce steam/desire you are just supposed to hold hands and say to the LD spouse, "let's be friends, I will let all past resentments go." I don't think that is how people work.
If in my case, I desire lots of physical contact during the week and sex 2X a week and W only likes short kisses, hours of foot and back rubs daily and sex 1X a month, and this goes on for 20/30 years. That Is OK? Kind of seems one sided to me.
Also suppose, I make many compromises because W is a LD person and my Resentment/frustrations build for 20/30 years. Then some day ED hits me and I think back to all of the hoops I had to jump through just to try to have some intimate, caring, and sexual relationship with my W and now one way that means a lot to me to express that connection is gone, I am going to just say lets hold hands, I still love you. I forgive you for turning me down 50%/75% of the time. Not very likely.
Chrissy, I agree with what you say. Marriage is more than sex. Lots more. But do you see how much "damaging frustration" some HD people here feel. Do you see how much better some HD or what really are normal drive people feel when around someone that has almost no sex drive or has a policy of no, or little sex, as a way to control something in their life, effects the higher drive spouse?
I know people and circumstances change and the honeymoon does not last for ever. But going from every day sex/ML to a couple times a year for some people, is almost like not being a person, just a component in a machine. Go to work, earn money, spend to maintain a house hold and kids. Less and less joy every month. Why live like that.
Sometimes it's like I commited a crime and have to be punished. I did not fool around before marriage because I did not want to have to marry someone because of a pregnancy.
I got married because I loves someone, wanted to have a family with that person, wanted to maintain an emotional, physical, duty bound, and sexual connection with that one person.
Like you said, people get older and things change. But opting out of sex 20 or 30 years before one gets old leaves the other HD person with a contract that does not deliver the intended goods but you still have to pay your contract fees, fidelity, acts of service, friendship, loyality, and etc.
To me all of these feelings and obligations are a package. You can't say I want all of the marriage interactions but leave out the sex when one person needs sex/ML to feel whole.
Try buying apples at the store with out the seeds. When you buy apples you get the skins, the pulp, the core, the seeds, and sometimes stem and leaves.
Just so you don't think I am an all or nothing guy, I compromise in many ways and have been for a long time. Maybe compromising is at the root of my problem like others here.
But like a lot of other HD people here we are frustrated, we don't feel whole, we don't see why our SO won't take 30 minuets a couple times a week to make out a little then ML. Why won't SO change while we are trying to make things work and the minuet we say we won't live in an almost sexless M, all of a sudden they will work on their low sex drive????????
I see your point Chrissy, ML/sex does not equal a marriage. Other things come up and take much more time. But too many LD spouses don't see the problems or are reluctant to do much to about their personal, or the relationships causes, for their low driveness in the M. It seems they would rather spend hours avoiding sex than work 30 minuets to find solutions to the problems.
