OCKim - I am Kim not Kimberley so that we have different my middle name is Marie and you???? Hey Angel - just had a lightbulb moment myself I get your point now - I think what you are saying is we go on and on about something that could have been said in fewer words....Got it.....When i self analyze this I think I do it because I don't wish to be taken the wrong way so I make sure i cover all bases when I am really just being longwinded I guess.....Thanks for that insight but it is probably too late with H now as I meant it when I said I am not contacting him and am not interested in conversations with him unless he chooses son's needs over OW's.....KDU