Trying to find our way to happiness II

[cally]

I agree Kim 100%

JV you do need to start thinking about yourself. Also I feel you need to start standing up for youself and putting your boundaries out there.

One thing I have learned is that when you say something you have to stand behind what you say. Otherwise spouses tend to just think well she said it but don't mean it. Like I saw you post your husband had an affair before this one. You told him never again. Maybe that is part of his confusion is because he did do it again. Who knows maybe intentionaly because he is going through some weird thing right now like maybe a mid life crisis.

My grandfather cheated during his marriage many times. He lost a lot of the families respect. My grandma got tired of it and finally left him. When he was asked how come he cheated on her not once but many times....he said because I knew I could and still come home. he stated he knew how to work her. Smooth it all over and be nice and appologize.
My grandfather remarried and go figure he never cheated on his 2nd wife once. Because he knew she would not tolerate it and stood behind what she said 100%. He made a comment that his wife respected herself so much that she would not allow that to happen and he would lose his chance at her love.

To me it almost sounded like married men can start losing their respect for their wife because they tolerated this or just act like all is okay.

It just makes me wonder why your husband is still feeling so guilty from an emotional affair. You have stated you forgave him and told him you want to move on. But he keeps drinking and bringing it up. Do you think there could be something more or something that is continuing? How did he act when he did this to you before. Did you tell him you forgave him and then the two of you were able to move on?


But JV do start thinking about you. Don't be so consumed by him or his actions. Distance yourself from this emotional rollercoaster that he is putting you on. Get a babysitter for the weekend if you can and maybe go out for the whole weekend. Rent a hotel room maybe and just chill out. Maybe the last resort you can try is to show him what it will be like without you and the kid's. Tell him that you are giving him what he wants if he notices the changes in youDon'tcall him and don't take his phone calls when you are out. Let him sit and wonder where JV is and what she is doing and why her phone is off. Be selfish yourself for once and just think about you and what you need.
This has to be taking a toll on you.

[ValerieA]

Hi, Ellie.

I have told H "ILY" on several occasions where I initiated it. Even when I call him and leave a voicemail, I usually end it with one.

About his phone -- if it goes straight to voicemail (which it did last night) then that means it's off. If it's a reception issue, a message will be played that says, "The customer you are trying to reach is currently unavailable....".

H got home right after my final post last night. The first thing he said was, "My phone died around 9 o'clock. I would've called you if it hadn't."

Now, remember -- I was already mad , therefore I wasn't DBing at all.

I said to H, "You could've used a payphone, right? I know they still have those in the card rooms. They still have them everywhere. And you told me TWICE that you would be home at 9pm. It's 11pm now." H said he NEVER told me he'd be here at 9pm ! He said he told me 10pm! I'm not crazy -- I know what I heard! I said, "Ok well, even still. It's 11pm now." H said, "No, it's 10:49pm." I said, "It's 11pm, H!!" Then he said ok, he was sorry and he should have called. He said he will next time.

Then H said, "Well, my sister called me before it died and was talking about some s**t that's going on with her and XXXX (her friend). She said that XXXX's been -- " I interrupted and snapped, "I don't care about what's going on with your sister! I have enough crap going on in my life right now to deal with! I don't want to hear about anyone else's drama, ok?!" H said, "Well f*** you then!" He started walking out to the garage and mumbled, "I shouldn't have even come home," then shut the door behind him.

He came back inside a minute later and was talking to me like nothing just happened! He started talking about SIL again, and I said, "Didn't you just tell me 'f*** you'?! If you feel like you shouldn't have come home, then by all means leave! It would be so much more peaceful without you here right now." H ran up behind me saying he was sorry and sounding like a kid. He grabbed and yanked me down onto the floor and started wrestling with me.

I think H thought it was all fun and games, but I didn't find it amusing at all. I know he was trying to ease the tension and make peace between us. I believe I deserve an Oscar for my performance of making him feel I was alright after that because I WAS NOT. I let him think everything was ok because I just wanted him to let me go and leave me alone.

We watched TV for a bit then went to bed. H wanted to hold me again, but I said, "No, I want to lay this way tonight (away from H)." He said ok and goodnight.

I had the worst night of sleep ever. The baby kept waking up every hour , and H was laying so close to me all night that I only had about 10 inches in width to sleep on (we have a king size bed). I kept waking up to tell him to move over, and he would, but half hour later, he was back.

H went to El Dorado Hills this morning for another service call.

I just feel like it's going to be one of those days today.

Kim and cally, I want to thank you for your thoughts and words. I will respond in awhile -- the kids are calling me right now. I'll be back.

Thanks for listening.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[cally]

JV you did it again. You made him think all was okay when really deep down you weren't okay. It seems like you do this all the time. Almost like you are scared of him and to tell him what you really feel. He just smoozes things over and does whatever the hell he wants. He thinks all is okay with what he did. So why not do it again and again. The merry-go-round will never stop until you make it stop.

He is not working he keeps pointing out now. So why the heck didn't he get up a couple times with his crying son so you could rest a little. Why the heck do you have to ask him almost like begging if he will watch his kid's. JV I think it has went on so long this just feels normal to you. In all the years I have been with my husband if I have to do something or go somewhere or what have you I just tell him I am going or have to do this. I have never had to ask him IF he would babysit the kid's. Almost like I was hiring someone. Those are kid's and he is just as responsible. Even if he wants to keep throwing iot in your face he never wanted them. Which is sick to begin with.

I am sorry if this is harsh. As a woman I am angry with you from one woman to another. He really needs to grow up and start acting better. Ya know you have a lot of feelings going around in your head also.

[ValerieA]

Hi there, Kim. Thank you for sharing your time with me. I truly appreciate it.

I have to say that reading your response didn't offend me at all. It made me cry. There is so much truth in it, and the truth hurts a lot.

For me, it's very difficult to focus on myself. I do find myself preoccupied with H all day everyday because when he is here, he constantly calls me to complain about everything. He called earlier to vent about how hot he was and how the customer was annoying him. It's so hard to not feel his negativity.

The kids are another thing. I love them to death, but I really could use a break. I mean for like a week and not just a day or two. That's impossible though because although H isn't working, he would NEVER agree to it, and I certainly can't ask my parents or MIL to watch them for that long. They work.

Even though I am M, I feel like I am a single mother. H is out and about doing who knows what while I am here day after day after day. He says he's out working, but for some reason, I don't believe him all the time. When he's going to handle a service call or an installation, he ALWAYS wears old clothes. Well two days ago (and many other times before that), H left with a new pair of jeans on and a nice pullover -- his favorite. Now, if he's going to be climbing into attics or under houses, WHY wear his good clothing?! That stuff bothers me, and I don't say a word to him about it because I don't want to hear his lies. I still feel like he is lying to me about his whereabouts everyday when he's home, and I can't focus on myself because of it.

I feel like my self-esteem has been shot to h*** by him. The pain of everything H has said and done to me throughout the R is still there. I don't talk to him about it because then all I hear is, "Well I remember when YOU blah, blah, blah!!!" I've tried saying things like, "H, when it was said that I decided your life for you, it really hurt my feelings," I heard, "Well YOU DID, DIDN'T YOU?!!! You KNEW this and that, DIDN'T YOU?!! But you still did what you wanted, DIDN'T YOU?!!"

You know, I've just had soooooo much on my mind for awhile now -- we all do. Even when H and I have our positive moments, all I can really think about is how he said he never wanted to marry me, he never wanted kids, he would have left me long ago if it weren't for them, he only has sex with me because what other choice does he have, he's told me there's "coldness" in his hugs and kisses for me, he gets angry and tells me "FU then", he's even called me a b**** many, many times if I was "nagging" him (he hasn't in about 10 months now), and he comes and goes as he pleases -- maybe not intentionally, but that's how it feels. God forbid I should be allowed to leave the house and do anything without him because then he will panic and question my every move. For someone who didn't want this life with me, H sure seems to feel safe and secure knowing that I'm always home for him.

What would I like to do with my life? I thought I was doing it. I always knew that I wanted to get married, have 2 or 3 children, and be a SAHM, but I didn't want to raise my kids on my own, and that's what I feel like I'm doing. H takes them out to do things, but that's about it. I feed them, bathe them, help with homework, shop for them, read to them, everything. I know this is what parenting is, but I never wanted to do it alone. I feel like I'm in this alone, and I feel so alone. H used to want to do everything with me. I felt like I used to have all of his attention even after S9 and S5 were born. Right up until I became pregnant with the baby. But I suppose he felt he didn't have my attention, so he stopped giving me his.

I would love to set some boundaries in this R, but I can just hear H saying, "It's nice how I work and make the money around here, but I can't do things my way." No matter how reasonable I try to be, H never sticks to any agreement. Just like when we made the poker night compromise. He couldn't stick to it for even that first week.

I would also love to feel like I was a priority -- not a responsibility. I feel like that is all I am to H, and that's all the boys are, too. He married me, had 3 kids with me, therefore we are his responsibility. Not so much his wife and his family, just his responsibility.

I do think this could be a MLC. Everything just rings true. He is so into his physical appearance. I don't mean his weight. Just how he looks in his clothes. It's not right because he NEVER used to be this way. He's always been into tattoos, but he's had more and more done. He even got his nipples pierced pre-bomb. He's died his hair several times from blonde to bleach blonde to jet black. His hair has been thinning for awhile now, and he's very negative about that. He looks at pics from years ago and will often say, "Damn....I was so young back then. I could have done something different with my life. I wish I did." He's gone through 5 different "chick magnet" cars in less than 3 years, and he's talked about having a tummy tuck done. And, of course, he has blamed me for everything -- the M, the kids, the house, the cars, everything.

Sometimes I wonder what am I trying to save here? It was rocky from the very beginning. Why has it taken 12 years to end up like this? Why couldn't he have been honest with me and himself in the very beginning? I know it's all irrelevant now, but he brings it all back nearly everyday in some way.

I'm thinking about H now and wondering what he's doing right at this moment. He said he had one service call today. If that's the case, then where is he and what is he doing? He should have been back no later than 2pm, and it's almost 4pm now.

I think I'm going to ask my parents if they can watch the boys this weekend for me. I really need to get away from home for a bit. Even if it's only for a day or two.

Gotta go again. Thanks for listening.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[cally]

Great for you! I would try real hard to get away. A day or two would do you wonders JV. Maybe check into a nice hotel that has a pool. And just relax and think of you for the whole weekend. Don't even tell him where you are going. Let him stew and think for awhile. I think it will be a great 180 on your part. It may show him that you are a strong woman who is tired and worn down from the stress he has put you under. Maybe at the most just leave him a letter and let him know you wanted to get away for awhile because you needed to think and unwind.

I would love to set some boundaries in this R, but I can just hear H saying, "It's nice how I work and make the money around here, but I can't do things my way." No matter how reasonable I try to be, H never sticks to any agreement. Just like when we made the poker night compromise. He couldn't stick to it for even that first week

JV that is how he controls you. He is the kind of guy that holds it over the woman's head that she is only a SAHM and he has to work to earn the money and blah blah blah. Meanwhile without you he wouldn't have his clothes washed or his children taken care of you or his bills paid and the million other things you do I'm sure. He would pay someone a fortune to do the things you do. His saying these things is selfish and controling!

The kids are another thing. I love them to death, but I really could use a break. I mean for like a week and not just a day or two. That's impossible though because although H isn't working, he would NEVER agree to it, and I certainly can't ask my parents or MIL to watch them for that long. They work.

That is pretty sad he would never agree to it. This shouldn't even be something he has to be asked. Those ARE his children and his responsibility. What would happen if he just woke up in the morning and there were his children needing to be taken care of and there was only him?

God forbid I should be allowed to leave the house and do anything without him because then he will panic and question my every move. For someone who didn't want this life with me, H sure seems to feel safe and secure knowing that I'm always home for him.

Again just another controlling habit of his. To make you miserable and question you. To make it where you will only be at home right where he wants you. Maybe he questions you because he is afraid you may do the same thing he has done or is still doing.

Don't let him drag you down. Try to do something positive for you everyday. When he is out don't even call him. Try to go about your day without having any interaction with him at all. If he iniatiates making love maybe you could tell him your afraid you might get frostbite with the chill he claims is in the air. I know thats mean. But he says these things. Why not use what he says against him and show him for once that it hurts.




Also I would call about that counseling and see when you could get in. Tell him if he has a problem with it you will get a job to pay for it and ask him what hours he thinks he could watch the kid's so you can work.

[OCKim]

JVJKB..

I am glad to hear that my response to your post did not offend you...
As I mentioned to you before, I strongly believe that you have NO control over your H... But, you DO have ENORMOUS control over yourself, your response to your H and the initiatives you take with regard to him.
IMHO... you do not have to let your H's upsetting behavior upset you. You do not have to be at the mercy of what he does or does not do to you. In many ways, I see you tied to your H's behavior and your feelings tend to be determined by what your H does and says... Perhaps it is time that you "let go" of this struggle... And when I say "let go", I DO NOT mean you stop striving for the goals you want in your marriage. It DOES NOT mean that you should stop taking care of yourself.
In letting go, it means that you can stop being anxious about your relationship. You are letting go of the struggle, the panic, the longing for things to be other than they are. Trust that the outcome will take care of itself.

I have learned through seeing my counselor that in order to detach a bit from the situation, it is important to tell yourself: "This really has nothing to do with me." It is most appropriate to tell yourself this when you feel your spouse is doing something to YOU. If he is advising you, criticizing you, ignoring you, being impatient with you, even yelling at you or lying to you... try saying this: "This has NOTHING to do with ME... My H is just being my H, just doing what he does"...
A perfect example is: "That is what HE does, he yells when he gets angry... It has NOTHING to do with me!"....
Maybe your H is doing what he has ALWAYS done, being who he has always been. If so, can you be more accepting of the qualities you don't like, understanding that they are a part of who he is? His habits , thoughts, attitudes, and behavior are there for reasons that have NOTHING to do with YOU.

Perhaps you can even take the pressure off your H by pulling backward a bit... Try to avoid the accusations and complaints and even appear to need him less. Let there be a bit of "mystery" in your personality with your H. Having a demeanor of self-confidence, mysterious quietness, and independence can be effective in getting your H's attention. Retreat into your own world and stop reaching for him... In doing so, it will change his frame of reference of thinking "how can I escape?" to make him instead wonder: "What is going on? Am I losing her? Have I pushed her too far?"...

JV... please continue to remind yourself that you are a loving, thoughtful, special person who deserves true happiness. I hope that you are having a better day... -KIM

[ValerieA]

Hi, cally and Kim.

Geez....I was just rereading my last post, and I really seem to have made myself feel like a victim. That is NOT what I want, and unfortunately last night, I vented to H. I'll get to that in a moment.

I used to tell myself, "H is mighty angry right now. He's upset about this or that, his guilt is only adding to it, but he is NOT upset with me....HE IS NOT UPSET WITH ME." Why did I stop doing that??!! I think it's because of the continuous flow of negativity coming from H, and it has taken its toll on me. It is just so strong and it feels so overpowering. It's there in some form EVERYDAY, and it's so hard to let go of or get away from.....(sigh).....I WILL TRY though.

I don't know. I guess lately I have just been feeling very inadequate. My H is a very social person, and he has to be out doing something all the time. I used to be very social myself, but then the kids came along, and I have always been the one to be at home with them. I feel like everything I do revolves around them. I guess I feel inadequate because what do I have to talk to H about other than the boys? I don't have anything "grown-up" to chat about with H. He asked me yesterday evening how my day was, and when I told him pretty much the same old stuff, he mumbled "hmm". I feel like I'm very boring to him, and I'm sure OW or anyone else he encountered wasn't at all.

Anyway, H got home about 6pm. He said the service call he did involved connecting 8 TVS to the satellite system in a 7000 sq ft mansion -- no wonder he was gone all day . When he walked in the door, I knew he had been working because he was looking very scruffy .

H said he had to go to a couple houses nearby to pick up equipment from cancellations and asked if I'd like to go along, so the baby and I did (S9 and S5 were visiting with MIL).

So we were on our way to the first house and H said, "Seriously, find out what's up with a babysitter on Friday. I want to go to that tournament. It's only a $25 buy-in, and these guys are so lousy, I know you could clean house. I want to go, and I want to go WITH YOU." I didn't give him an answer then he said like he was being cocky, "You want quality time? This is what I do. Work, drink -- even though I want to stop -- and play poker. Love it or leave it." I glared at him and H just smiled back at me. He said, "Damn I'm feeling good right now! Probably because I've been sober for 2 days. That's cool, right?" I said right.

We got to the first house, and the baby and I waited in the truck for H. I couldn't help thinking that I should just leave him. I hate that kind of cocky, uncaring attitude he has. How can he be so callous?

We went to the second house then picked up the boys from MIL's before going home. H had a quick bite to eat and said he had to go to (co-worker)'s house to get some leftover equipment then he would be back home by 9pm so we could watch the movie together before it was due back. I said ok.

I gave the kids their bath then put them to bed. H got back at 9pm like he said he would. He came up to me in the kitchen and handed me a CD. It was Coldplay's new CD. H had asked me in the truck earlier if I wanted it. I told him, "Cool, thanks," and put it down on the counter. I was walking away and he said, "Cool? Thanks?....Whatever then." I was not in a good mood already (I think some of it has to do with PMS, too ) and I turned back around and snapped, "What do you want from me?! Do you want me to jump for joy?! Do you want me to jump on you and say 'Oh thank you! Thank you!'?!" He glared at me and said, "No. Not at all. Maybe just some sort of appreciation. Something more than 'Cool, thanks'. I know if you went out of your way to go to Best Buy and got me a CD, I'd be a lot more thankful."

I said, "Oh really?! How about when I bought you the Sixpence CD a few months ago because you told me about your favorite song on it? And when I gave it to you, you said, 'Oh. Thanks, but I didn't want the whole CD for just that one song.' Did you ever stop to think that I went out of my way to get it for you?!" H said, "So, what is this? Payback or something? Because I didn't want your CD so now you don't want mine?" I said, "No, H. It's not payback. I am happy that you got me the CD, I really am, but maybe you need to understand that I just don't jump for joy about things like you probably expect me to. It doesn't mean that I don't appreciate it."

I'm trying to remember what happened to start the next phase of the convo, but I'm at a loss . Anyway, H told me that he was never going to open his mouth up to me again because whatever he says hurts me and that's clearly not his intention. He just doesn't know how to say what he wants without it hurting me. I told him to keep talking to me if he wanted to. I would prefer to hear about his thoughts rather than H keeping them bottled up. H said, "Nope. I'm not saying another word. I'm just going to keep my mouth shut and we'll go on living this life. Together or not." I said, "Look at what happened when you kept your mouth shut last time." H said, "What happened?" I said, ".....You went somewhere else." H didn't say anything.

I sat down and started crying. I told H I didn't want to live this way anymore. I don't want to feel that he's only here because he's afraid of leaving himself. H walked away then came back in his gym clothes. He tried to pull me up to give me a hug, but I told him no because I didn't want one. I told him I feel like all he has been doing these past few months is purposely push my buttons to get me to the point of telling him to leave so he wouldn't have to be the bad guy. H told me I was crazy. I said maybe but that's how I feel.

I told H I didn't know why he was still here when he's told me time and time again that this isn't the life he wanted. He didn't want the M, the kids, the responsibilities. I told H I didn't understand why he was still here when he's told me so many times that he wanted out and that he feels obligated to have sex with me. He said he was sorry for all that, and he doesn't feel that way about sex with me. I told him the damage is there and I don't know how to get through it. I told him I thought he should leave. H said ok but he still wanted to give me a hug.

I said, "Why can't you just leave me alone?! I don't want a hug!" I moved over to the couch, and he sat beside me. I was crying still, and H told me he was sorry. I told him, "You probably should just go.....I feel like I'm nothing but a responsibility to you. I feel like I am such a burden on you."

H put his hand on my back and just started bawling. He kept saying OMG, OMG. Then after a few moments, H said, "You just made me realize something." He didn't say anything after that, so I said, "I'm right, aren't I? That's how you feel about me and probably about the boys, too. The truth can hurt." He kept crying then he said, "You know that I love them though, right?" I said yes. H said, "You know that I love you, too, don't you?" I started crying again and said, "I know that you care very deeply for me." H said, "I DO love you, JV. I DO. I'm sorry that I'm such a loser." I told him he shouldn't be so hard on himself. He said he was sorry and he just wants to make me happy. I told him, "H, if you're not happy with yourself, how can you expect to make anyone else happy?" He started crying more.

He knelt down in front of me and was trying to get me to give him a hug. He asked me why I couldn't just open my arms up to him. H said I do that a lot. I never realized it before, but he was right. In the majority of our hugs, it's H who has the open arms. I open mine, but only a bit.

I thought for a moment and told him it's because I don't want to feel vulnerable to him again. I feel like if I open myself completely, then he just might hurt me again. H said, "What are you talking about?! I'm not going to hurt you." Well, I don't think he knew what I meant. So I gave H a hug, but it just wasn't there for me.

H left to go to the gym then came back an hour later. I had fallen asleep on the couch since I had NO sleep the night before. He watched some TV and woke me up when he heard the baby fussing. I got up to check on him and then went to bed. H came in right after me, put his hand on my shoulder, and intertwined his leg with mine.

This morning H didn't say a whole lot. He told me about what he had to do today for the last of his work. At one point H was in the living room with the baby and I saw that he was looking at him and crying a little. Then he came into the kitchen and said he'd be back later. I told him alright, I'd see him then.

Gotta run now. Thanks for listening.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[ValerieA]

Journaling:

Not a whole lot going on over here.

H is out finishing up some of his final service calls. Last night was a poker night for him. He said that he is going to do this 5 days a week. That's fine with me. I really don't care anymore, and I just hope he doesn't neglect QT with the kids.

H said he would be back around 1pm so I could get my manicure done. He told the boys he would take them mini-golfing when I returned.

H is still showing me affection (hugs and ILYs), and I am returning them, but.....I don't know.

S9 and S5 will most likely go to MIL's for tonight, and the baby is going to my parents. I'm sure H will be going to the poker party tonight. H said the other day that he wanted me to go with him, but I don't really want to. I haven't talked to any of my friends in a month now, so I think I'll give them a call and see what they're up to.

If my parents will watch the baby again for tomorrow or Sunday, I want to take S9 and S5 to Stinson Beach -- they love it there! If H wants to come, fine, but I just feel like I don't want to be around him now. How sad is that?

I need to start doing for me again -- and the boys. I need to feel that I can get out of this house and have a good time by myself or with my boys. I can't sit here any longer feeling like I'm nothing but a responsibility to someone else.

I hope everyone has a great 4th !

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[dodgermf]

I need to start doing for me again

Damn skippy!!

I can't sit here any longer feeling like I'm nothing but a responsibility to someone else.

Oh yeah, Damn skippy again!!

JV, I'm read your "short missives" pretty religiously. I have to be honest sometimes I'm too pissed off to write (I'll be real honest, sometimes I'm pissed off at you for taking so much sh** you CLEARLY don't deserve). But I see things working in your head. It seems like you're starting to come around and wrap your arms around the fact that "Dammit, I'm worth something too!"

Keep it up JV, don't take crap.

DMF

[ValerieA]

Hey there, D.

It's ok to be upset with me . I've been getting upset with myself a lot lately, too. I'm not very proud of how I've been allowing myself to get so down.

I'd like to go do something tonight. I wanted to get together with my friends, but they're tied up with other things.

H really wants to go play poker tonight, and he wants me to go with him BADLY, but I do not want to play poker!!! I told him this twice already and he said ok.

I just got back from dropping off the kids, and H left a message on the machine saying he is over at (mf)'s house to see what is going on with the poker party. Hmmm...ok, he said whatever HE does tonight, he hopes that it is with me, but I'm telling you now, if it involves a deck of cards, I'm going somewhere (???) solo.

Needed to vent a little .

Have a good night, everyone .

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."