Hey there, Scottisheart! I hope you're having a great day as well.
"Would he have done this normally?" -- No, I don't think he would have. With his depression, I think the "norm" for H would've been for him to say something like, "Yeah....I remember'em, too." That's why I hesitated when H asked me to finish my sentence, but to my delightful surprise , he didn't.
IMO, a perfect little example for why we should not ASSume .
Ok....We didn't watch any movies last night after all, but that was alright because I was actually very tired, so we just watched some recorded programs instead. Well...H watched while I nodded off here and there .
We finally went to bed around 1am. Poor H has a sore throat. He said he's had it for a few days now so I told him to take some Sudafed Severe Cold tablets and he did. Ooh -- writing this just reminded me about the other vitamins H hasn't taken yet. Hmmm...I'll see if I can bring this up to him later tonight.
H held me close again last night , and he woke up feeling a little better today.
H is out doing service calls right now. I've got laundry to do , and I've got to get S9 and S5 working on cleaning up their room as H brought this up before he left.
Time for my list:
+ POSITIVES +
+ LOTS of affection going on between us (hugging, kissing, ILYs, smiling at each other ) + H's very positive moment of telling me "we'll get'em back". + EVERYTHING that H expressed to me just days before returning home. It showed me that H feels very safe to open up to me . + After reassuring H that we WILL be fine, he is much more upbeat and looking a little more like himself again. + When the subject of C came up, H said he would think about it. I know it's not a "yes", but I'm taking this as a small positive. + And of course, ! I'm going to try to initiate more tonight !
- NEGATIVES -
- My small ASSumption of what I thought H would say when I said, "I remember those times." But luckily, H proved me wrong .
* THINGS TO WORK ON *
* Getting H to take the other vitamins (5HTP/multivitamin/B50). It needs to be done, so I think I'm going to have tell him I spent $$$ on them to get him to take them. H could consider this to be pressure, and I will try to go about it VERY gently. Hopefully I'm ASSuming again . * Keep working on reassuring H and being supportive of him. Always.
Thanks for listening.
JV
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
Things are continuing to go well over here. A couple of not-so-good moments yesterday (my fault ), but we're ok.
Friday night, H went out with (mf) to another guy's house for a poker party. He wanted for me to be able to go, too, but we didn't have a sitter for all 3 boys -- my parents are on vacation in Ontario, and MIL was watching the baby but has a difficult time watching all 3 of them at once. H called and tried to talk MIL into taking S9 and S5, but I told him it was alright. I wasn't up for it, but I'd like for H to go and have a good time. He was very hesitant at first and said he didn't want to go without me. I told him again I was fine with it which I was, so he finally said alright.
H called me a few times while he was out and even told me his location during the first call, so if I wanted to stop by, I could. Now, I knew I wasn't going to go over there with 2 sleeping kids in tow and H probably knew that also , but I'm glad H gave me that bit of reassurance .
H got home around 1am, had a snack, then came to bed and held me .
Yesterday (Saturday), we went to S9's belt ceremony. S9 is officially a Blue-Advanced (Blue-black) belt now ! The ceremony took place at a local park. I should have checked the weather before we left the house because it was mighty chilly out! The sun was shining, but there was a very chilly wind to go with it. The boys were fine like their Dad. Plus, they were running around playing soccer with the other kids. I was sitting on the grass talking to some of the other parents. I was sitting in the sun, but I was still cold .
BTW, it was also H's 31st birthday. The boys and I sang "Happy Birthday" to him, and that was it. Nothing more per H's request.
Anyway, I can get a bit crabby when I'm too hot or too cold, and yesterday was definitely one of those times. After the students received their awards and new belts, the kids and H were off to play some more. Shortly after that, it was time to eat, so I called out to H and the boys. H came over to me and asked what I wanted. I said, "It's time to eat. I know the boys have got to be hungry, so let's eat so we can go please. I don't want to be here much longer because I'm cold." H kind of rolled his eyes and said, "Ok.....It's not like we go to the park that often." I looked at him, said nothing, and made my way over to the picnic line.
I realized that I let my crabbiness speak for me, but I didn't appreciate H's attitude either.
A few minutes later, H and the boys came up behind me in line. H poked my side, but I didn't respond (that's the stubborn side of me ), so he did it again and said, "I'm sorry, JV. Alright? I'm sorry." I told him alright, and that I was sorry, too.
We ate, chatted with S9's instructor for a bit, then we left to come home. H said he wanted to stop by (mf)'s for awhile, go to the gym after that, then take S9 and S5 to play mini-golf again. H invited me along , I told him I'd like that, but I had to call MIL first to see if she was willing to hold onto the baby for a few more hours.
H left, I called MIL, and she said that was fine.
H came back home a couple of hours later like he said he would. He watched a little TV to unwind, took a shower, came into the living room and lead me into the bedroom.... !
Afterwards, we went to play mini-golf. We all had a really fun time, and I even got two hole-in-ones ! The boys went out of their way with praising me .
While we were driving home, H ordered a pizza for dinner. We went to pick up the baby then I drove to the pizza place to bring the pizza home. When we got there, H got out to get it, I looked to my left and noticed a girl looking at my H. I mean really looking. I was thinking, "The nerve of this b****! I'm RIGHT HERE! Doesn't she see me looking at her?!" Then she saw me, turned away, and got into a car with the 2 guys she was with.
Yeah, it made me mad at first, then I thought to myself, "Who am I kidding? H IS a very good looking stud. I'd be crazy to think that other females don't look at him." H has told me (pre-bomb and post-bomb) about girls flirting with him, and when I'd look at him after telling me that stuff, he'd say, "What?! I know I'm a stud because you tell me I am."
Anyway, my insecurity was beginning to set in again . My eyes started getting watery, but I did manage not to cry. Besides, the boys were right there with me.
H came back with the food and was talking about something that had to do with the pizza lady, then he said, "What's wrong?" I said nothing. H said, "Well, you seem quiet...like you thought about or saw something that brought back certain memories. What happened?" I told H I didn't know what he was talking about ( ) and I was fine. H looked at me and said alright.
I didn't want to say anything to him about what I saw and how it made me feel. I just felt that wouldn't help anything right now.
We got home and ate. H said he had to go to (mf)'s house to get his glasses (for distance) because he forgot them there then he was going to rent a movie for us. H said he actually wanted to have some drinks... . He asked me how I felt about that, and I told him that I was ok with it ( ) as long as he had them at home. H said ok.
I put the kids to bed then H came home about 40 minutes later. We watched "Be Cool" (not very good IMO), and H only had 3 Mike's Hard Lemonades. I thought that wasn't too bad seeing how H is very capable of drinking more than a 6-pack of anything.
We went to bed after the movie and spooned. H mentioned a poker tournament that he wanted to go to this morning at a certain card room.
H got up this morning and got ready to go. He came over to me, gave me a hug and kiss, and asked if I really was alright with him going. I told him yes and good luck. H said thank you, gave me another hug and kiss then left.
Ok, the baby's up now so I gotta go. I hope everyone's having a nice weekend, and thanks for listening.
JV
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
Well, after this morning's nice interaction, I thought it was going to be a fine day. It wasn't completely horrible, but it just wasn't too good.
H came home just before 3pm from playing poker. He told me that he played in a money game because he didn't get there in time for the beginning of the tournament. So H was gone for 6 hours and only made $20 .
H was "moody" when he got here, but he took the boys to go see "Madagascar" again since he promised them yesterday that he would. H made a comment that he felt like drinking .
While the boys were putting their shoes on, I looked over at H (he was at the fridge) and saw him putting 2 Mike's Hard Lemonades in his pockets . I was mad because I didn't understand how he could want to drink when taking the boys to the movie, and I felt like I was hurting, too. Hurting for H. It hurts so much to see him this way when he wants to drink.
Well, the kids were nearby but weren't paying any attention to what was going on around them, so:
Me: "What's the matter, H?" H: " Huh?!" Me: "What's wrong?" H: "What do you mean?" Me: "What's bothering you?" H: "What? What are you talking about?" Me: "You only want to (I motioned drinking) when something is bothering you. What is it?" H: "Nothing...I just wanted to take a couple of Mike's with me. Is that alright?" Me: "So...you want to do that when you're going to be driving with the kids?"
H looked at them and then put the drinks back in the fridge. He looked a little ticked off, but I didn't care. I wasn't trying to start anything, but my babies are my life. Need I say more?
As they were leaving, H said, "I just wanted a couple drinks. I'm sorry. Don't stress." Now, if the kids weren't right there, I might have gone off on him about the possibility of him drinking and driving with the boys because it really infuriated me, but I kept my mouth shut. He DID put the drinks back, he didn't blow up on me, and he said he was sorry. This was by far the hardest incident to let roll.
Anyway, they got back 2 hours later just when dinner was ready. We ate then the boys were off to play with the baby trying to follow behind . H mentioned he wanted to go play cards again tonight and asked if I was ok with that. Of course, I'd prefer he stay home with us, but he's been quite the "family man" these past days, so I told him if that's what he wanted then I was fine with it.
H asked where all his jeans were, and I told him they were in the washer, so he put them into the dryer and folded the load that was already dry for me . While folding, H said, "I want to ask you something, and I'm not trying to start anything. I just want to know this, and I want you to be honest with me, ok?" I said ok then H asked, "I was just wondering if the only reason you're still with me is because we have kids. I mean....you see what kind of a great life you could have with someone else. Someone who didn't do what I did to you. I think about all the s**t that's been said and done in this M.....and I just wonder why you're still here. I just wonder if you're afraid of starting over by yourself or with someone new."
I told H, "I'm not with you just because of the kids. I'm with you because ILY, and because I just couldn't see throwing everything away. In fact, since you want me to be honest with you, I feel like you're still here because of them." H said, "No. Not even." Then he came up to me and started hugging me and said, "There's so much more in it for me....I know at first I never wanted kids....I never thought I'd get married....I know it's all irrelevant now....(sigh)....I don't know. I guess I just felt like I had too much responsibility on my shoulders....but I just gotta stop being such a b**** about everything now." The convo ended there because the phone rang.
Just before H left to play poker, he opened his gift from SIL. She gave him a photo album with some pics in it of H and her growing up, and there were also some of the boys when they were born and getting older. Well, there were some of them with H when he was overweight. His facial expression just got gloomier and gloomier with each one, and he kept making horribly negative remarks about them, about himself . I was in the living room at this time, but I was watching H. After a short while, he came to me and gave me a hug goodbye and asked me to wish him luck. I did then he left. I looked at the album, and I could only imagine how H must have felt looking at all those pics. Just reminders of the grandparents that always put him down, how overweight he was, and the 3 kids he never thought he'd have. There was one photo of me holding the baby after he was born. I'm sure that added to his "moodiness" as well.
I almost forgot -- H also talked more about playing poker for a living. He talked about it and asked what my thoughts were. I told him if that's what he wanted then I was ok with it as long as it didn't interfere with his time for family. H said, "That's why I would play during the night." I started thinking and said, "Well, I don't know how I'd feel about you working every night." H said, "Ok. You don't have to say anymore. You already gave me your answer." Then he walked away (???). I didn't mean to upset him if that's what I did. He didn't give me a chance to explain myself any further. I wanted to follow him to do that, but I ASSumed H walking away from the convo was his way of putting a stop to it -- like I do sometimes , so I left him alone.
H was talking to me about something he wants to do, but I guess I wasn't being very supportive of it or him. I just can't see how being out almost every night playing cards is any different than traveling for work. Yes, H would be home everyday, but he would sleep during the day.
(Sigh).....I just don't know.
JV
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
I believe H got in just before 2am. I had fallen asleep on the couch while trying to wait up for him. I heard him come in and say, "If I would've known you would still be awake, I would've called to see if you wanted me to stop for anything." I was just so dead tired, I didn't even respond to him. The TV was still on, so I'm guessing he thought I was up. Then I remember that H picked me up and carried me to bed.
When H got into bed, he held me again and whispered, "I'm sorry," and I could smell the alcohol on his breath . I was awake but let H think otherwise, and I had to try my hardest to keep myself from crying.
H left around 7:30am to take care of a service call in Sacramento. He looked very "down in the dumps" this morning.
Is there any way I can go about "waking him up"? I just see H on a very downward spiral. Do I let him hit rock bottom? I really don't want that to happen, but I just don't know how and if he'll ever snap out of it. It feels so wrong to act as if everything is going to be ok when it is so far from it.
I feel like telling H that I cannot live like this. I cannot sit here and watch him try to kill his pain when he's actually killing himself. I want to tell him let's go to C and get help -- we both need it. I want to make the appt and just go even if I end up being the only one who goes, but then I'm afraid he's going to explode and be angry with me for doing that without getting his "ok".
I just feel like H is going down, and in some way, he is taking me with him.
JV
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
JV-I know how you feel about the drinking. My H was clean and sober when I met him and stayed that way for 10 years. Then a little over a year ago he confessed that he wanted to drink again. He said he wanted to be like everyone else and be able to stop and have a beer with his friends or drink something other than soda when he went out. He said he knew he had a problem with drugs and was not ever interested in starting that up, but he felt he didn't have a problem with alcohol. Well I don't believe that for a minute. I've been through treatment with my first H and I know a lot about alcoholism. I told him I wan't buying it. Well he decided to do it anyway and at first he scared me cuz I had never known him drinking. But then we split up anyway and I was more worried about our M than his drinking. And he was doing a lot of it. He would go out with his buddies all night and them go home (to his house) and a friend would go home with him and pass out on his couch. Sometimes he'd have to go to work the next morning. Since we were apart, I never said anything about it. Even when he got a DUI and couldn't drive for 6 months. He was really angry at himself over that but didn't stop him from drinking. He started using cabs or calling me for a ride or walking. He stopped keeping alcohol in his house. We don't keep it in our house either.
Anyway, I know (and I know you do too) that there is nothing we can say or do to make them quit. We don't cause it, we can't control it and we can't cure it. It is another one of those things that you must decide if you can put on the unconditional love list.
And don't try to make him go to C either. He isn't going to admit that anything is wrong with him. But by all means you should go. And attend Al-Anon meetings if you can (there are some on-line meetings that are very good).
But this isn't much different than DBing. You have to leave him alone with it and let him figure it out. You have to decide if this is something you can live with. But you cannot try to make him change cuz you know you can't. You have to be able to let him suffer the consequences and not feel sorry for yourself if the consequences sometimes affect you.
The same goes for the gambling. He has a problem here too, it sounds like. If you can live with him this way, then do. If you can't then you can't, but you cannot make him change this either. So, let him be a professional poker player and let him suffer the consequences if it doesn't work out. If he must lose you and your family then that is what has to happen to him. I've never met an alcoholic or gambler that was happy they lost their family because of their addiction. And if this begins to affect you financially then by all means, do what you must do to protect yourself. Make sure you have your own money and never lend it to him. If he wants to play, then he has to pay.
He's trying but it seems like he's still got some pretty big things to work out. You can choose how to deal with it. I don't talk to my H about his drinking. I just continue to tell him to have fun when he goes out and I find something fun for me to do. Sometimes I go out with him but I don't watch over him. I sit with my girlfriends and he hangs with the guys. He complains a lot about how bad he feels the next day--especially if he has to go to work and play golf when he has only had a few hours of sleep. Sometimes he sleeps in the back of his suv if he can't drive home. I figure if he wants to sleep in the back of his car and be cold and uncomfortable instead of sleeping in our warm, comfortable bed, that's his choice. But he complains about that too. So I really think someday he is going to make a different choice and go back to being clean and sober again. I don't know when and I know I can't make it happen any faster, but I think it will someday.
I hope that helps a little, JV
He probably looked down in the dumps this morning cuz he was a little hungover and disappointed that he didn't get that high from winning a poker game.
Thank you, mollie. It very much helped. It's just so difficult to see H this way. Like you, I've never seen my H this bad. He has had drinks in the past, but H never drank then the way he does now. It's almost a daily thing over here now.
I'm not thrilled about the poker playing either. It is a problem, and I think he plays so much just so he doesn't have to be home. He actually did tell me something like that. I guess it's an escape for him.
In our convo yesterday about H playing professionally, he said he'd like to take $5K and use that as his bankroll. We have 6-figures in the bank, but $5K is still a LOT to me. H said if he were to drop that amount then he'd call it quits......Should I tell him to go ahead, do it, and give him my support although it's not what I feel is right? I just think if I gave H the green light (geez -- do I sound controlling or what? ) then he'd go out every night to play. When night would fall, he'll be ready to go, I might ask why he has to go again (let's say for the 5th night in a row), then H might say to me, "Well, I gotta go try to make money, JV." I would know that he was right, but I would feel like asking, "What about me? When do I get to sleep with my H by my side again?"
I know I can't control anything. Whatever happens, happens. If he wants to do the poker thing, then alright. If he wants to drink, then ok. It does all fall on the unconditional love list.
I know he is really trying to be better in our R, and I'm glad about that.
I'll try the Al-Anon site. I don't know if I'd be able to go to an actual meeting, with the kids and all.
Thanks again, mollie. I'm grateful for your input.
JV
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
H just called. He's had 2 customers call him that need service, and he really doesn't feel like dealing with them but knows he should so (STBX-boss) can't give him any BS about not paying H the rest of what he's owed. I think he still owes H about $2K, and that's not including this week's work.
H vented for awhile as I just listened and validated. Then H said, "I don't know what to do, JV. I'm just so fed up with this s**t. I've been trying to get a hold of (STBX-boss) all morning to see when he's going to give me the rest of my money, and he isn't calling me back. And I'm afraid if I don't take care of these people then he's going to use it against me somehow like deducting what it would cost him if they cancelled their service.....I just want to get my money from him so I can just not give a s**t about him anymore."
I told H to take care of all the loose ends that he could so (STBX-boss) wouldn't be able to find any sort of ammo to use against H. I told H, "I know you said a few days ago that you really didn't care at this point, but I feel you should still bill (STBX-boss) for the things you're doing this week. You SHOULD be paid for them even if it is only a little." H said he knew that and he would.
H then said, "Tell me everything's going to be ok, JV. Tell me everything's going to be alright in my head." I told him everything was going to be fine then he said, "But it's not. Nothing's fine in my head. What am I supposed to do?" I told H, "Look. I know how hard it must be for you right now, but you should try not to focus on so much negative stuff. That's why you don't feel right. If you could just try to think or focus on something positive, no matter how small you think it is, it'll help you feel better even if it's only for a little while."
H said, "Maybe I should just focus on the kids because they're the only thing good right now." I told H then try to do that, and I also said to him, "And you know what else? If you want to do what you said about using $5K for your poker bankroll, then go for it." H asked, "What was that?" I told him again, and I said he should do it.
I think H was really happy to hear that. He said "thank you" in a very sincere way -- I've never heard it come from him like that before.
JV
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
Sorry I don't post more but only when I have something to say. I do however, enjoy reading your "epic" posts.
I don't want to Poo-Poo any positives that you have had recently. They are exciting and seem to make you happy. But there are two things that are in almost every one of your journals...
1. Drinking 2. Poker (gambling)
It's just my opinion but it sure seems to me like those are two VERY important things in your H's life. If you're OK with that, cool. I just continue to read about his really high UPs and his really low DOWNs. It concerns me a little...
Please make sure you both agree that the 5,000 is it. Unfortunately, when that is gone I have a feeling he's going to want more. It just seems to be the nature of the addiction. I bet there are support groups for family members of gamblers too--along the lines of Alanon. Probably on-line too. It will help to talk with others who are going through what you are going through. And you can find more tools to help you cope. Do you think you can get a separate savings account in your name to protect some of the money? Not necessarily in secret, but maybe with his agreement? Maybe if he takes 5,000 to gamble he will agree that you can take 5,000 and put it in a savings account or invest some other way. Just a thought.
Even though it may not be the best idea to have him take that money to gamble, I bet he probably really appreciates your trust in letting him know it's ok with you. I suppose there has to be some ground rules to go along with this though. This could be a convo with a C too.
Make sure you take care of you Sun. When he is out try to get some plans of your own. I know you have the kids, but sounds like you could afford a sitter or maybe a family member could help out. I think H should stay with them once in a while too so you can go out and have a little fun time yourself.
Many years ago when I was married to my first H, I went to a C and talked about how lonely I was, that he didn't spent time with me, that I wanted to do things together, etc. The C asked me if there were other ways I could get those needs met. At the time I thought it was a dumb question--what was I supposed to do, find another man? But now I understand what he was trying to get me to understand. I can do other things to get my needs met. I don't need H to do it for me all the time--that puts a lot of pressure on him anyway. If I've got something I can really concentrate on or really have fun doing, I'm less likely to be thinking about H and being lonely for him.
I'm hoping the best for you Sun--I know you've been working hard and waiting a long time.
Hey, D. Thank you for your concern, and I totally understand it. Unfortunately, yes, the two biggest things to H it seems are the poker and drinking.
The poker has been an issue for the past couple of years, but it's been tolerable. The frequent drinking just started after the baby's birth, and it progressed more and more. I don't like it at all, but if there's anything I should be "happy" about, then it should be that at least H doesn't get out of control. He will drink and then pass out.
mollie, I definitely plan on sitting down with H and making an agreement with him that the $5K is all that will be risked.
H and I have separate accounts already -- he has everything, he has it all. I'm given a couple grand every month to take care of the bills, etc, and if I should need more then he'll give it to me. Not always happily though . This just works for us.
I know all the account numbers and all the passwords so I can check on things anytime I want to. I have looked from time to time, and everything is just as it should be.
I know he has this problem, but as hard as it may be to believe, I honestly feel and know that H is very responsible when it comes to our $$$. He is just too proud of what he has accomplished with it to lose it in any kind of way.
Ok, I'm not sure if the bottom half of your post was meant for me because it's addressed to Sun, but if it was, I thank you. Well, I thank you anyway .
H would never approve of me paying for a sitter when I don't work, and whenever the opportunity comes up for a relative to watch the kids, I take full advantage it . I agree that H should try to give me a day to myself. I would appreciate that very much. Maybe I could discuss this with him when we talk more about the poker thing and ask him how he would feel about that.
Thanks again, D and mollie, for stopping by. I really appreciate it.
JV
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."
Valerie
"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination." ~ author unknown
Hey there, Scottisheart! I hope you're having a great day as well.
, he didn't. 
.
.
, and he woke up feeling a little better today.
, and I've got to get S9 and S5 working on cleaning up their room as H brought this up before he left.
! I'm going to try to initiate more tonight 
, but I'm glad H gave me that bit of reassurance 
. I was thinking, "The nerve of this b****! I'm RIGHT HERE! Doesn't she see me looking at her?!" Then she saw me, turned away, and got into a car with the 2 guys she was with.
. My eyes started getting watery, but I did manage not to cry. Besides, the boys were right there with me.
Huh?!"