Trying to find our way to happiness II

[ValerieA]

Hi, cally.

Yes, I have told H many times that I don't appreciate it when he talks to me like that, and many times he will respond with, "Well if you wouldn't make me mad then I wouldn't," and that's ME putting it nicely . My H can be very verbally vulgar and offensive when he wants to be and always apologizes soon after.

If I told H I had plans when he wanted to go do his thing, he probably would flip! But I bet if I did that, he would be out the door even quicker so that I couldn't leave.

Also, yes, H has always complained about the cost of everything -- I mean EVERYTHING! Even on our honeymoon, when we went to Maui, ...... everything. NEVER when we were dating though, but then again, I was working and we didn't have a family then either.

H probably does think it's ok for him to act the way he does because he knows I'm not in a big hurry to go anywhere. You know, there was one time when I DID leave H, and I had forgotten all about this. We weren't married at the time, but we did have S9 who was only several months old then. I can't remember what we fought about (probably something VERY STUPID ), but I did leave him and came back after a week or so after H called me and begged for me to come back to him, and there have been other times when I've gotten so close to leaving him again but never did. I think H knows this, so I think this is why he doesn't take me too seriously.

I feel like this R is getting further and further away from being salvagable.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[ValerieA]

Journaling:

Geez, in rereading my posts, I find myself asking myself, "WHY am I even trying to save this M?" How can I still want to be with such a selfish a**hole? What the heck am I doing in "Piecing" when it clearly seems that I am not piecing? Where is the man I fell in love with? The one who fell in love with me, too?

(SIGH).......Well, H isn't here again. He took his shower and came to sit next to me after my previous post. H asked what I was typing, and I told him that it's like keeping a journal so I mostly write about the day's events. H said that he's been wanting to keep a journal for a while now, too. I told him he should do it; it can be very therapeutic.

H started telling me about MIL. She's been asking him subtly how things are going, and he says he never knows how to answer her. I told him I was sorry, and I have asked her and SIL twice already not to ask him how we are doing per his request. H said, "I know. It's not your fault."

Then H said, "I wanted to know what you thought of me getting my sister a birthday card or something." I said, "Why wouldn't you get her a card to begin with anyway?" H said, "I'm going to, but I just didn't know if you were going to be upset about it since I didn't get you a card or anything." (Yes, it did hurt that he thought to get SIL a card and not me before, but what good would it do for me to say so?) I just told H, "I don't care. Just be sure you get her a little something so she doesn't get upset about it like you know she will." H said, "Yeah -- I know already."

Then H said he was going to play cards ...(sigh)... after taking SIL her card.

Before H left, he was talking about looking for another job. He was talking about becoming a "prop" -- a payed poker player. H would play poker to keep table games going when they were low on players and get paid for it, but he would be playing with his own money. I don't think I like that idea because he would never be here. Wait -- he's never here anyway, so what's the difference?

He was also talking about maybe being a dealer. Same thing again though. I think H would work his shift, but then remain there to play afterwards.

I didn't say much of anything to H when he asked what I thought about those ideas. I told him if that's what he really would like to do then he should go for it. H said, "Are you being sincere or are you telling me to go ahead because you just don't care and you hate me now?" I told H, "I'm being sincere, H, and I do NOT hate you. I really wish you would stop saying that you think I do." H said, "Well I'm trying to be nice to you, but you seem like you're mad at me. What's the matter?" I told H, "I've already told you I don't know how many times about the way I have felt for awhile now. I'm not going to repeat myself anymore because it seems like you just don't listen to me." H said, "I know, and I'm sorry."

H also said that he didn't know what was going to happen to us, but that he does love me and the boys. I told H I know.

H asked for a hug, and I (sadly) reluctantly gave him one. He gave the baby a kiss goodbye while I was holding him, and then he gave me a kiss on the forehead. H also made a remark about having later, but I told him too bad because it's that time of month now. H said, "Damn.....Is that why you were being so mean yesterday?" I said, "No, YOU were being mean." H said, "Oh."

So here I am once again on another lonely night.

I just don't think my H will ever truly get it again. I feel like he has been just so self-absorbed for too long now, and he may never change for anyone let alone hisself. I see myself leaving soon , and I hope H is able to find a woman who is very career-oriented and does not want children at all. Oh -- and she'll have to have no problem with him being out playing cards all night when he wants to.

Sorry. I guess I'm just feeling very sorry for myself right now because I don't think H really is. I don't think he really knows what he's doing to me.

I have tried and tried, but I feel like it's all been for a lost cause.

Thanks for listening.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[ValerieA]

I'm done with this. You can call me a failure if you'd like, but I'm done.

H is out for the 5th night in a row. I cannot deal with this anymore. I've felt like I've been a single mom for a long time already, so what is the difference in calling it quits?

H just left about 20 minutes ago, said he was going to stop by his mom's for a bit then go play poker. Normally, I would have crumbled as he walked out the door, but not this time. I have had it.

I called his cell and said, "Why don't we just sell the house and go our separate ways?" H asked what I was talking about, and I told him, "I cannot go on like this anymore. This is the 5th night in a row that you've left to go be somewhere else. So what's the difference in being a single mother? You clearly don't want to be here, and neither do I." H said, "Well why don't I just move out then?" I said fine. I told H to give me about a month to get the house in selling condition, and he said, "Why do you want to sell the house when I just told you I would move out?" I told H because I did not want to be here anymore. I told him if he wants me to have the house, fine, but I'm selling it.

H said, "I'm pulling up to my mom's now, sooooo.....finish saying what you want so I can get out of here." I told H that's it. I had no more to say because I got everything out of my system over the past few days. I'm tired of being alone, and I just want to move on. I'd like to move on with H, but it's apparent to me that he just doesn't feel the same.

Ok, H is back. I'll post later.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[cally]

JV I am sorry he is being such a butt head. Here is a cyber ((((((Hug)))))) for you. I can honestly say I know how you are feeling right now. I know the thought of being single can be scary. He has done a lot to damper your self esteem and everything else. But things can be better for you if this is the path you chose. For one maybe this will be the straw that breaks your husband and gets him to change. I would stay consistent with what you have told him. Any break in it he will just take that you can't be consistent with anything you say. Like he may try to worm his way back in and say let's have . Or this may be the last time we will ever get to so can we before I go. For now I would try to be consistent and simply say I am sorry but I would rather not.
Or if your husband doesn't change and you find yourself single there is a big chance you can find happiness with someone a lot more compatible. Just hang onto that anything is possible. When I seperated from my ex husband I was a single mother of two children. I met my current husband shortly after being seperated. He was wonderful and absolutely loved my children. He has accepted them as his own children. We have been together almost 13 years and married almost 11. We have our share of little problems, lol that is why I am here on the board. But all in all I am so much happier. I laugh a lot and smile a lot more. My self esteem is much higher. We had two more children together. My husband idea of a perfect day is taking the kiddos to an amusement park and he lets loose and has as much fun as the kid's. It such a change from the man who once would rather be someplace else so crabbily ruined our day. I guess I post this to let you know happiness can happen for you if this don't work out.

If you are going to seperate I would wait on selling the house or doing anything until you seek legal advice. Yiur are the mother of his three children. It seems only fair you stay in the house until it sells. I think any judge would see it that way also. But I would seek legal advice. Probably the easiest way I could think to handle this would be to if it was possible to maybe get up before him in the morning that is of he comes home tonight and write him a letter asking if he could please pack up his things and be out before you get home at xxx.( just think of a time) That way you can be consistent in asking this of him and won't be there for him to spew any of his ill behavior on you.

I wish you the best of luck JV. You will be in my prayers.

[cally]

Jv you wrote this.....

H asked for a hug, and I (sadly) reluctantly gave him one. He gave the baby a kiss goodbye while I was holding him, and then he gave me a kiss on the forehead. H also made a remark about having later, but I told him too bad because it's that time of month now. H said, "Damn.....Is that why you were being so mean yesterday?" I said, "No, YOU were being mean." H said, "Oh."

He seems like he just doesn't get it. You asked him to move out and again he asks this of you. If there is one thing I think you need to do right now is be very consistent with whatever you say and do. He thinks he can manipulate you at anytime. That way he can continue to be selfish and only think about himself.

But in telling him you didn't care if he got your SIL a card and a gift and not you I do think that was wrong. Because in order for someone to know what hurts you you need to be vocal about it. Because lol expecially men they can't read minds. I think in your marriage you may have done this a lot. Just said you didn't care when deep down it hurt.

[ValerieA]

Hi, cally.

Thanks for the hug. Here's one in return. ((((((HUG))))))

I feel very calm and serene (???) right now. It's kinda weird.

So H came back -- for what I have NO idea. I was folding clothes (the laundry never ends in this house for some reason !), and I had nothing to say to H who seemed to be acting like I never called him and said what I said...???? The baby was getting ready to fuss, H picked him up, then stood next to me. He gave the baby a hug and kiss then he pulled me close to him for a hug and gave me a kiss on the forehead. I just kind of gave H a "pat" on the back -- you know, like a friendly hug. I didn't have it in me to give him anything more.

H sat down on the couch and started watching the basketball game and talking to me about it. I really wasn't paying any attention to what he was saying, and I'm not sure if he noticed or not. His face was a little mopey though.

I didn't feel like cooking tonight so I ordered a pizza for the boys. Without me even asking for it, H started giving me money but I told him I had enough.

H went into the living room and started playing with the baby while I was putting clean clothes away. Then H shouted to me, "I'm going outside to talk to (boss). That's him calling me on my cell." -- H is going through a dilemma with his boss right now about not getting paid for last week's work.

After about 15 or 20 minutes, H came back inside and sat down for a moment. I could tell his phone call didn't go well, but I didn't ask about it.

After a short moment, H got up, came over to me on the couch and said in a pouty voice, "I'll see you when I get home. Can I have a kiss please?".......I REALLY DID NOT feel like giving him one, but I did then he left. It was a small empty peck. Kinda like the ones I received from H too many times over the past several months.

Ok... How is it that I just told my H that I thought we should go our separate ways and he comes here shortly afterwards acting like I never said a damn thing???!!!!! I just DO NOT get it!!!

I'm sorry if I sound cold and callous about all of this. I still would very much like for things to work out between us, but I'm at a point right now where I don't care if H does leave. I cannot understand how he can continue going out every night when I have repeatedly told him how much it really bothers me. I told him this TONIGHT again, he came home for about half an hour, and he's gone once more.

Maybe he was looking for something from me, but I really don't feel like I have any more to give him. I've tried, and tried, and tried almost everything with no long-lasting results. Nothing permanent. I've given him his space, I've tried compromising, I've asked for QT, .... it just doesn't seem to matter to him. He's right -- H will do what he wants when he wants. If I put up with it any longer, then I only have myself to blame.

I tried to save my M, but this new and very selfish man in my H's body has triumphed. As long as "he" exists, JV does not.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[cally]

Are you sure that was his boss calling that he had to rush right back out again after that call. And even more that he had to take the call outside? Maybe some of his anger could be coming from the fact that he hasn't ended it. And the OW could be very well pulling him in another direction. He thinks he is above himself right now and can have both for right now? Just a thought I had but his behavior seems very strange. Maybe he came home to see if there was any consistency to what you just told him. I think that was a test on his part to see if you hug or if you kiss him. To him I guess it showed him all was okay, and you didn't mention it while he was there. So to him maybe you were just venting and now you were over it. So he was free again to do what he wanted.

If this is something you honest;y want I think you will have to try a different approach to get him to leave. He may have gotten use to you saying it but not backing it. Maybe you could write him a letter and ask it of him. Leave the note there for him and take the kiddos and stay at your parents house for a night. Ask him to be please be out by tomorrow. That would give him a whole day to pack and you and the kid's wouldn't be in any direct line of his anger in that moment.
Maybe you could let him know that you feel you should seek legal advice because you have asked him to leave and he won't. That resort would be the last one I would use. Because that resort tends to put a couple at war right from the begining.
In the letter you could tell him all you have stated here. That you are just ready to move on. You want and need to find happiness and someone that would appreciate you and love you and want to be there with you and the boys.

I would also check his phone records if possible. His calls and recent behavior is very questionable. He may very well be lying about it right now. In my opinion you have every right to know if he is still being unfaithful.

[ValerieA]

Good morning, all.

cally -- I do believe H was talking to his boss at that moment. H was trying to get a hold of him all day. He most likely went outside to have his convo just in case things got heated between them. H and his boss (who is also a long-time acquaintance) are in disagreement about what H should or should not be paid for last week's work.

I don't know. Maybe H did think I was only venting yesterday.... Maybe I was, but ..... I just don't know. I'm worn out and so confused about what I should really do.

------------------------

Journaling:

Last night at around 9pm, the phone rings and it's H. I figure he called to tell me how well or how bad his poker night is going, but instead he said, "I've been at (mf)'s house talking to him since I left earlier. I'm going to rent a movie that we can watch together, if you want to, then I'm coming home....Do you want to watch a movie with me?" I said, "I don't know." H said alright, he'd see me in a few.

He got here as I was putting the boys to bed. After they were taken care of, I went to play on the computer. H looked at me and asked if I was going to watch the movie he rented with him, and I said no because I heard from several people that it wasn't very good. H said, "Really? I'm watching something else then." H mentioned that "American Chopper" was going to be a new episode last night so I said I'd watch that when it was time.

In the meantime, H watched recorded programs. H came up beside me a few times to see what I was doing on the computer, and I told him I was playing games which I was. H asked for me to watch TV with him, and I said I would when it was time for "Chopper" to come on which was due to start in less than 30 minutes.

H went into the kitchen to make a snack and asked if I wanted anything. I said no thank you. He came back into the living room, ate his snack, then came up to me again and grabbed my hands to turn me away from the computer and walked me over to the couch. (He was being very playful with this -- we used to do this a looong time ago.) Right before we got to the couch, he yanked me down onto the floor and wouldn't let me go! Like I said, we used to do this kind of stuff in the past -- "playful wrestling" . Then H said to me, "Whatever you decide to do, I'll do it." I didn't say anything then we were "goofing" around! H will usually just hold onto me for as long as he can while I try everything and anything to escape ! I got a few elbows in which always makes H laugh, and he started kissing and licking my face all over which made me laugh! I was telling him to stop that, but he wouldn't so I started licking him all over his face, too, and we were both cracking up !......It was fun! If only there were more times like that again.

It was time for "Chopper" to start so we sat down to watch it. H laid on the couch while I sat in the chair across the room snuggled up with a throw blanket. H got up and turned out the lights then was walking in my direction. I clutched the blanket because I had a feeling he was coming over to "playfully" swipe it from me (happened in the past, too), and that dirty rascal did ! But this time it took him 3 attempts !

H went over to the couch with it, and I went over, too, to get my blankie ( ) back. We "wrestled" over it for a few minutes, and I triumphed ! I won by submission ! I know all of H's ticklish spots .

I sat back over in the chair, and we watched the show. H got up a few times and always asked if I wanted anything while he was up. I said no thank you.

When the show was over, there was another "Chopper" coming on (a rerun), and I guess I was starting to nod off because H said, "Well, if you're falling asleep then I'm just going to go to bed." Then he shut everything off on me -- the TV, the lights, everything -- so I'd have to go to bed, too. Another one of H's old antics .

So we went to bed, and H began pulling on my pj's. I asked him to stop and he said, "Well that means for you to get over here!" So I scooted closer, and we spooned. H said good night, and so did I. He started rubbing my back and side real gently, and he gave me a few kisses here and there on my back. I'm sure he wanted , but maybe he remembered I told him it was that time of month because he didn't ask for it like he usually does.

Anyway, we fell asleep like that. It was nice and very comfortable.

If things could be more like they were last night, I'd be a lot more optimistic, but I feel like it's only a matter of time before "moody H" comes back.

H got up this morning and seemed to be in a decent mood. He took the kids to school and said he would be back in time to pick up S5 when it was time for him to get out. H had to go to Sacramento to pick up some equipment for a service call he has to do.

Trying to hang in there for now. Thanks for listening.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[molliew]

Wow, you've got a load of positives in here! I wonder what would happen if when he asked you if you wanted something you said yes and then thanked him when he brought it? What would happen if you watched the movie with him even if you heard it wasn't very good and thanked him for bringing it home? What if you went into the kitchen with him and helped make a snack for both of you? What if you told him how nice it was to wrestle again and to spoon in bed? What if you told him how comfortable it felt? What if you warmed up to him a bit and tried to trust and forgive? What if every time you saw him you smiled and said "hello, how are you?" What if you got up from the computer and gave him your undivided attention? What if you went into your best friend's house and she behaved to you the way you behaved toward him?

I hope I'm making some sense to you--I think he is really trying. This stuff doesn't happen over night.

I highly recommend Michelle's KLA tapes too. I've been listening to them and being reminded of different things I can do to keep my R healthy. Don't depend on him to do anything right now, even though is taking baby steps. It is all up to you. This has worked so well for me and I know it can for you too.

[ValerieA]

Hello, molliew. Thank you for stopping by.

I totally understand what you're saying.

I'm not sure if you are completely familiar with my whole sitch. My H tends to have these very positive moments with me when something is said or done to show him that I'm getting fed up with the negative behavior coming from him. Then after a day or two, he's right back to that "moodiness", but I DO get what you are saying.

When H gets back this afternoon, I will try telling him how much I enjoyed last night's interactions. Maybe I'll even try to get him down on the floor myself to create another possible positive time for us, and if he's home tonight, I'll suggest watching the movie he rented. Who knows? WE might like it .

I guess I wasn't giving him my undivided attention last night (or any of the past few nights) because I felt he wasn't giving his to me since he was out all those nights. I suppose if my friend did this to me, I might feel neglected. Point taken .

Thanks for the recommendation. I will consider getting the tapes.

I know it's all up to me, too. I do want my M to work, but sometimes it's really hard to actually "work" on it when everything seems to keep repeating itself over and over again .......PATIENCE, PATIENCE, PATIENCE.

Thanks again, molliew. I truly appreciate your advice.

---------------------------

Journaling:

I realized I left out a couple of things from yesterday afternoon and last night.

In the afternoon after H got off the phone with his boss, he said, "I don't know, JV. I'm just really scared because I don't know what the future holds. For us, for the kids, with my job. I'm just scared. I guess I've just got to stop worrying so much." I suggested (after he asked) that he should check out the Internet like monster.com or whatever to see what he could find. I told him I know there's got to be something in there for him that he would like to do. H said he might do that.

Last night when we were in bed, H said out of the blue, "I need for you to believe me that I did not go to Old Navy to see OW. I just wanted some new shirts, and I guess I just wasn't thinking." I thought that was kind of weird. He was talking about something that was brought up on Thursday or Friday I believe.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."