Here's the latest and greatest in my saga. Quite a few positives actually (although that doesn't mean much )
--Ex called in a.m. to ask whether I'd seen the cat yet (she was over to get the dog again and didn't see the cat). Then told me some news. We had intended to get together with her parents yesterday to give them the b-day present from her/us and there was a change of plans. She called again later to say we'd go somewhere else and then go to her parents for dinner
--Met up with her and her parents for bingo. She looked great, as usual. I, as usual, complimented her. She was bouncing with excitement over the gifts for her parents. She glowed (and I told her so).
--After that she could have dashed through the rain to her car but waited in the rain to walk with me. She wanted to go look in a store and wanted me to go in. That was nice...she asked my opinion of hats and bought one.
--Went to dinner at her parents. Some more discussion about their present which was airfare, hotel, and baseball game. It should be fun for them. I told her after that I thought she came up with a great idea and I was glad I could be part of it (that part is a long story....want to hear it?)
--Played cards...she for once was my partner. Some of the times we haven't made good partners (not just in cards ), but I was a better sport than usual. So it went real well. She was smiling and happy.
--Big talk about a variety of subjects. She talked quite a bit about this book she is reading. It is interesting (she's supposed to give me the book next), but it was an opportunity to listen and ask questions. I wish I wasn't such a blabbermouth sometime.
--Then left. I refrained from even a hug. Just mentioned her parents reaction and then goodnight and went my own way.
Okay, I wrote more than necessary probably. I thought last night after I got home that things are really comfortable between us, but maybe this is as much as she wants and she's essentially "cake eating". But then I told myself that it doesn't matter. These are essentially dates and I'm getting the opportunity to make deposits in her love bank (which just threw my mind into the gutter ) I just have to take what I'm given for now.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
There is a lot of projection going on. My WAW insisted that one of the reasons why she wanted out was because "you are an unhappy person and when I am around you I am unhappy". Hmmm...she is the only person that has called me an unhappy person. None of my friends or anyone else seems to think so. Your W may be saying you are angry or upset because she feels a lot of guilt and assumes that you must be angry or upset with her. Dont' defend yourself. Just let it pass with a "hmmm" or "I am sorry you feel that way".
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
I believe and of course I only read from your completely unbiased perspective, your XW is content in the current R. She enjoys spending time with you and family and accepting and initating contact. The part about wanting to spend time with you and her parents I confess I completely do not understand. And in reading through past posts, I see many instances where you communicate "several" times a day. I did not even talk to XW "several" times a day when we were M.
She clearly enjoys the time with you without the pressures of M or children issues or all the other issues present in marriage.
Will this behavior extend into a more intimate R? I have no idea.
If you were viewing this as an outsider and this were the intial stages of a romance, all signs would point to the deeper developing of the R. But at this juncture, I do not foresee this.
Perhaps it is time for the "do something different" approach. I do not know what it might be. But I suspect she believes you will consistently be available to her and the current status of the relationship.
As Michelle says, "Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results."
No kidding you made 7344 mad. She left the board forever thanks to you.
I think when Michelle said insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results she was talking about doing things that didn't work. Same with "do something different" approach. So therein lies the difficulty. Am I doing what doesn't work? Or am I doing what works so I should continue?
You are right about what this would look like to an outsider...or probably even to my ex's parents...like we are still a couple. I think I can comfortably say that we are friends. Things are relaxed and enjoyable when we are together. Actually it feels like marriage only without the physical intimacy. Do I want to switch gears on that to see if it becomes more? Or do I want to continue on the present course and see if it becomes more? I still argue that you can't fall in love without being together. Have the interactions, etc, up to this point made it possible for her to suddenly chase me if I back way off?
So this is what I've currently been doing. This whole week I haven't initiated any phone calls. I have invited her to join me/kids when we are doing something if she calls. I've accepted all of her offers. Maybe I should make plans for some of those. And I've felt less anxious about us. That just seem to come about naturally.
Oh, about her parents, when they first came back (they're snowbirds) I invited them over and such. Let them know through action that I still wanted to include them. They are fun to be around and really nice. I think her parents feel that the D was a mistake (her mom actually has indicated that she's not sure what her daughter is doing). They actually make efforts that include us both in activities. It literally is just like our marriage (or better) when we all get together. No one is uncomfortable with this strange dynamic (or no one seems that way...I guess I'm assuming). At this point I don't know. I'm just being myself without a whole lot of strategy. Maybe that's all I can be. I'm not even sure what I'm doing is DBing.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Quote: No kidding you made 7344 mad. She left the board forever thanks to you
Guess I did give her the cure all?
Quote: I still argue that you can't fall in love without being together. Have the interactions, etc, up to this point made it possible for her to suddenly chase me if I back way off?
I do not disagree at all. But are you comfortable in this role? Is this so comfortable to X, she sees no need or desire to push to the next levels?
Right now, your behavior and hers is not altering the dynamic. If you are comfortable with this, that is one thing. But what would a change in behavior do to the current R. And I see you've experimented some, by not calling all the time. And it appears you've reached a point where you are not so worried about actions or reactions.
But you have to ask yourself, if this is what you want to continue and why? And what are the alternatives and why you may or may not seek another path?
Quote: But you have to ask yourself, if this is what you want to continue and why? And what are the alternatives and why you may or may not seek another path?
Answers: That's not easy. Do I want to continue to have a comfortable friendship? Yes, now and after remarriage to her. If we had this the whole marriage we wouldn't have ever divorced.
Is this all I want? No If this is all I can ever have will it be enough? NO, I need this plus trust, intimacy, love, the whole nine yards
Why continue? It is building on the friendship. We've moved from being together but uncomfortable to being together comfortably (unless I initiate too much physical stuff). It is pleasant being around her. It is also I'm hoping a means to an eventual new complete R with her.
Alternatives? Cut her off completely from my life hoping that she'll want me back? Find someone else that can not only provide friendship/companionship but also the other aspects of a healthy intimate R? Something with less interaction than now?
Why seek another path? Shake things up. Try something different and monitor for positive results. Help me move more towards an attitude where she needs to chase me.
So I didn't answer the question exactly. I don't exactly know what I'll do. Continue to work on GAL. Be happy in my own skin. Accept whatever happens.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
I guess I've always heard that friendship is the cornerstone of a marriage. It sounds like you and your ex have it in spades. When I read your postings, I would think you are a M couple doing things together.
I understand how difficult it must be to have the brass ring in front of you but just out of reach. If I ever get to a point like this with my W, I hope that I can maintain the discipline needed to keeping developing the friendship, but not place an overpowering amount of pressure.
I don't know. My W and I became involved as a result of developing a friendship first. She was the only one I ever accomplished this with. One thing that gives me hope is that I remember her saying to me that she missed talking to me (i.e friendship). Also, the bringing up of memories and things that she likes about me.
I don't see how it can hurt to stay involved in her life. Maybe, an occasional "inability" to spend time with her will keep her from taking you for granted, but why not give the friendship a chance to blossom again and that love will further blossom into the love that made her want to marry you.
Sorry, Bruce. Just my $.02. Really comes back to patience.
I appreciate the advice. I'm just mulling things over. Just spending the night with the dog and the tube. Ya know I've been at this site for a little over 5 months. A lot has happened over that time...most of it bad. I've been with the current name since March 24th (I wasn't always La_esperanza) That's an average of 4 posts per day.
My thread will lock up soon so I just thought I'd post the chorus to a song I heard as maybe the final nail in this thread's coffin. The song somehow spoke something to me....not sure what....I guess that maybe that the act of loving is important.
Quote: I“ll probably never hold a brush that paints a masterpeice Probably never find a pen that writes a symphony But if I will love then I will find That I have touched another life And that“s something Something worth leaving behind
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Don't apologize, we are all just offering our thoughts and insights and trying to straighten the boy out.
I don't think most of this journey (in hindsight) has been bad. Painful, difficult, confusing, yes. But we have been given a chance to truly evaluate ourselves and our lives and our relationships.
And I believe slowly we are taking the opportunity to discover and question and search for what we want and need.
)
), but I was a better sport than usual. So it went real well. She was smiling and happy.
Hmmm...she is the only person that has called me an unhappy person. None of my friends or anyone else seems to think so. Your W may be saying you are angry or upset because she feels a lot of guilt and assumes that you must be angry or upset with her. Dont' defend yourself. Just let it pass with a "hmmm" or "I am sorry you feel that way".