Just thought I'd post updates. I really considered not coming back after the week off from the board, but I missed everyone. This is the briefest of summaries. No real in-depth detail provided. You'll see that this summary does not involve going over to the dark side.
Wednesday: Ex-W mowed lawn for me. Went to dinner together. Fought over my kids/her kids. I tried to talk...she didn't want to have any of it. Sent e-mail explaining my position.
Thursday: Didn't talk except for brief minute I picked up van
Friday: She replied in e-mail asking if I wanted to be friends again. I replied back that I hadn't stopped being friends. Went out that night with friends. No contact with ex-W
Saturday: Stopped by her place and asked if she'd give me a ride to my car (I had to leave it at the bar ) I was kind of naughty physical wise, but we really pretty much made up. Traded in the van for a different vehicle. Stopped by to show her and she got teary-eyed. It really did kind of signal the end of some things. It was the vehicle that allowed all six of us to go as a family places. Now it's gone. We went to dinner. Nice evening. Dropped her off and went to a show.
Sunday: She called asking if I wanted to get breakfast. We went to brunch then out to put flowers at her loved ones' graves. Pleasant ride together. Tough day for her and she needed comforting. Got back home and she helped me clean house. She went back home and I went to a movie and dinner. IM'd with her after that. Fun convo.
Monday: She called asking about walking the dog. We went on a long walk together. She asked for a favor. We talked on the phone a few times and she came over once. We talked about some planting I was doing. I had some unmailed bills on the table...she put stamps on them.
Tuesday: Nothing.
Things have been really pleasant (with the exception of the fight). And even the fight was maybe okay. She has been pretty giving (mowed lawn, helped clean house) and has also been open with gratitude. While we've spent time together and it has been pleasant, I feel my expectations have not been too high. No real pining away when she's not around. That's it for updates. No real meat to them, but I'll answer any questions. Gotta get back to work. BYe
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
And from my prespective, all that interaction and behavior and conversation is AMAZING. I do not see that as a person who does not want to be around you.
I certainly get NOTHING like that kind of interaction from X.
Nothing really new here. Minimal contact yesterday (I relayed a message on the answering machine to her and told her how I accidentally locked the cat in my dresser). None today.
As you might have seen from my posts on other threads I've been thinking about "the dark", etc. I never have gone dark. It's always been gray at the most. If she doesn't contact me then I contact her. But I've been considering how things are with my ex wondering whether or not it is worth experimenting with darkness. How long have I ever gone? Not real long. Who does more of the calling? Me. When she calls it's often because she has a real reason....sometimes to ask to a meal. Who initiates e-mail or IM? Me (almost exclusively). I know she enjoys doing stuff with me and we have good conversations when together, but if she really wanted to be around me she would show me more often. Wouldn't she? She would e-mail, IM, or call me. Plus, we're divorced. There is a good chance we'll never be together again. I should get used to no contact for weeks and months (?years) at a time. So while our time together has been pleasant, I'm not positive I'm headed in the right direction.
So while I may badmouth going dark...it's only because it isn't for everyone and should be used as just another way to experiment and monitor results. I've gone largely dark yesterday and now today.....I want to continue it until she makes more of an effort. Maybe going dark will prove to me that she won't miss me. That she really doesn't care one way or the other whether we do things together. So it will be the experiment to see how long going dark is possible. I will not be the one to initiate (for however long it takes) unless I absolutely have to. Wish me luck. I suck at this part.
Anyone familiar with my situation have any opinions? Should I give a trial of going dark? Or by initiating have there been enough positives that I should continue "doing what works"? Have I actually been doing what works or is she just humoring me? Using me?
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
You guys have got me thinking again today. (will wonders never cease!) and I remember someone professional (who likes to really push the 'plan a/plan b' approach) saying that once they're gone it's likely that they won't come back. So, at that time I was beginning to realize that 'plan b/going dark' is more to work on myself and GAL and it isn't really meant to bring the ex back, it just makes life easier to go on w/o them. but that's my humble philosophical approach and it is all easier said than done.
Now since I am known to overanalyze everything, (& people here will realize that soon enough) I have actually been keeping score on how much communication my ex and I have. And when I don't say too much for a few days, he calls more and we have nicer conversations.
So I guess I should be changing my own thread to staying twilight instead of going dark.
and so my advise would be the same as I am hearing, keep the door open but keep moving on. Sounds like you've had a good week, and stepping back for a day or two wouldn't hurt, but don't stay away too long. Keep doing what works! Good Luck!
From what I know of interactions with my WAW, she is very confused. In fact, my WAWs' memory is so shot sometimes (they are under a lot of stress too) that she is not thinking straight. You attribute too much perspicacity to your WAW at this point by thinking about what her motives are. The only thing that you can safely assume is that she is not interested in an R with you right now. So, I too dont believe in going dark as a strategy to make the WAW miss you and things like that. Believe me, the WAW will do all sorts of unusual things to fill the void left by your absence. Mine has cultivated short-term friendships with people she has really nothing in common with, relied on "new" friends to spend time with etc. WAWs are flailing of course and after a long enough time they may actually start to miss you or the life that they had, but in the short term not much will come out of going dark really. It never has for me at least. There is an interesting article by JamesJohn somewhere (Newcomers perhaps) talking about going dark and LRT as techniques for you to work on yourself and not to be employed as a tool to pry the WAW mind open.
Regarding what works, if you keep initiating contact your WAW may keep acceding but that may not mean anything either. I really think that this is a really long process. For example, mid-life crises can take anywhere between 3-5 years to turn around. There also seems to be quite a wide chasm between "spending time together" and "committing to working on a relationship". The former is fun, the latter work. The problem with initiating a lot of contact and such is that there is no pressure relief for the WAW and the pursuer-distancer dynamic takes hold. Lately I have stopped pressure altogether. I am trying to stay happy, busy and upbeat when W and I are together, which is quite often due to D3. When I do that my W does seem comfortable with me. So far, when she has been that way, I get all excited (moral: keep expectations at zero) and then she retracts again. I have stopped enjoying that dynamic. So, I am being a lot more independent now.
But I dont know anything. Just throwing some thoughts at you based on my experience. Perhaps the wise ones will chime in.
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
Quote: LRT as techniques for you to work on yourself and not to be employed as a tool to pry the WAW mind open.
Guys,
All valid thoughts. I think this goes back to my comments of worrying about how our actions affect them. I say do what you are comfortable doing? If you enjoy contacting her and she does not recoil, then why not? But, as you are aware, you are doing ALL the work and I don't imagine getting the payoff you subconsciously desire, though will not admit out loud.
You want an intimate R again, to have a second chance, to make amends for the mistakes you both made. Does she want this? Only she can answer, but I imagine you have an idea.
Right now, it is easy for her. She gets to play family and still have the life she seeks.
Quote: From what I know of interactions with my WAW, she is very confused. In fact, my WAWs' memory is so shot sometimes (they are under a lot of stress too) that she is not thinking straight.
UD, you got after Wes for speculating what his XW is thinking, but propose to know what your WAS is thinking?
Truth be told, we have NO idea. We can guess from some of the generic comments offered. But none of it really makes sense to us, so it is difficult to even understand their behavior.
It goes to the question raised here on Gabe's and others posts, what, if any, kind of R do we want with the WAS?
Thanks for responding. It seems these musings are often just rhetorical. Especially when we start bringing what are ex-spouses are going to do or think.
UD, I don't think it's safe to assume my ex-W doesn't want a R with me right now. I think she does want some form of R with me, but it's more likely that she wants only friendship rather than an intimate/romantic relationship. From that standpoint it's best to assume she doesn't want the kind of R that I would want.
It's interesting that you mention activities to fill the time with. My ex's thing is e-mailing with other mothers and having occasional group chats with them. I think it sounds fun for her. But when the chat is done the other mothers go back to their lives with husbands and children and family. This activity may fill some void for the ex, but I doubt that it will be lasting. I mean, this doesn't fill any voids for me. It gives me people to bounce ideas off of, someone that understands my situation, and a sympathetic ear, but at the end of the day I'm still crawling into bed alone (except for the cats).
I know this is a really long process. For me there is quite a bit of uncertainty whether she will leave town before we get anywhere in this process. I need to get complete by then. Doing the things I want to do and being the person I want to be. I'm not there yet. Essentially I feel like I'll only be there when it doesn't make a difference to me whether we are together or not.
Thank you for your thoughts De jevu and UD. I'm going to digest them for awhile. My thoughts aren't going in a good direction right now.
Wes
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
If Wez doesn't try at a friendship he doesn't want, though, he will never get the 'intimate' R he wants, because intimate and committed and sexual R's start with friendship.
If she's asking him to mow the lawn, this woman wants him in her life.
I disagree with that; she wants him in her life to be available at her discretion. I really believe (my opinion) we give way too much credence to the interactions with WAS. We believe they want us in their lives (and we start to think they want us full-time in an intimate R) and really they are acting as if nothing has changed but no longer have to deal with the R pressures.
But I know a lot of people with ex's and NONE of them would ask them to mow the lawn, not even my (X)H who has admitted he loves me.
It's just not something that happens all that commonly after you split up and when my H has initiated friendly contact like that with me, it's because he says he still has feelings (his words), so I would think the kind of interaction Wez has with his XW is very positive.
I know from your posts that you'r hurting a lot, Bruce, as I read your anger in every post.
Just think though, if we never gave our ex's any doorway back in, none of them ever would and some couples DO reunite.
I know a WAW who says she loves her 2nd husband and is happy with him, but she wishes she had tried on the first marriage because hubby 1 was her true love.
It's better to try than end up like her and think you didn't do everything you could to keep your R going.
) I was kind of naughty physical wise, but we really pretty much made up. Traded in the van for a different vehicle. Stopped by to show her and she got teary-eyed. It really did kind of signal the end of some things. It was the vehicle that allowed all six of us to go as a family places. Now it's gone. We went to dinner. Nice evening. Dropped her off and went to a show.