Quote: I'm always amazed at how quickly you can get retailers to cave if you have good competitive data
Like Lill, I to like the internet very much. (I can't say love because because I reserve that title for ML and emotional connections).
I don't like bluffing, or palying one-ups-man-ship, or try to put someone's products down. I do feel comfortable doing statistical comparrisons and w/o the internet I would have to spend a lot of time, it might not be worth my effort. I can wait out people or the situation until events look more favaroable. IE sales, close out models, rebates and etc.
Lill's insight shared here on SSM: Lill, I really enjoy your post about the "train ride" on another thread. I wish I could get half as much out of the book as you gained going to the semminar. I see a big growth spurt in what I will call, relationship dynamics and your individual selfworth, since you got back from the session.
My situation: BB's UTI's are killing our SL. Just to be sure I did not have a "bug", I got tested. My test was clean.
I think BB is seeing how the R is stressed because of the lack of emotional connections we have. I almost think she was liking the kisses and huggs a little more recently but afraid she would get another UTI. I don't want to cause them and feel very bad when she has one. Next step female condoms and lots of unsweetened cranberry juice.
Do these gremmlins/R killers ever stop popping up?
You wrote: "My situation: BB's UTI's are killing our SL. Just to be sure I did not have a "bug", I got tested. My test was clean."
Has BB tried or would she consider the Estring? I am post-menopoause and did not want to try hormone therapy of any kind. Under some pressure from doctors I did take oral estrogen for a few years (to prevent osteoporosis) but stopped when the news about its many bad side-effects came out. Painful IC was the result and I wept - is this the end of a SL? But my female internist recommended the Estring - it is worn intravaginally and slowly releases a very small amount of estrogen. My understanding is that the risks are much much lower than using oral hormones. It helps enormously with vaginal lubrication and compfort and I believe topical estrogen may help prevent UTIs.
The other suggestion, in addition to lots of cranberry juice, is to drink a tall glass of water before sex and pee shortly after.
Quote: Has BB tried or would she consider the Estring
First, Thanks for the web sites you listed. I saved some of the information to my wordprocessor UTI file.
About the Estring, I don't think so but will print out how it might help. The reason I say, I don't think so" is BB had a breast lump removed that was estrogen dependent and took an anti-estrogen drug for 5 years.
BB is a doglover too. At one time she had 4 dogs, 6 cats and 2 large birds. Two dogs and two cats sleep on the bed. The cats are active at night so most of the time there is enough room on the bed for two people.
Quote: The other suggestion, in addition to lots of cranberry juice, is to drink a tall glass of water before sex and pee shortly after.
BB has been doing that. I am trying to encourage her to wash/rinse off before sex but that is not happening very often.
From what I hear, the Dr test for bacteria and blood. I wanted to know the name of the bacteria but was told the UTI test did not culture for types of bacteria, the test just was a yes/no bacteria/blood are present.
Quote: but stopped when the news about its many bad side-effects came out.
Unfortunately, when BB went on hormone replacement therapy (HRT), all of the medical advice was slanted toward reducing heart problems, and a host of other conditions, all good news for taking HRT. Shortly after BB breast lump, HRT became a topic that now listed its many risks. She felt she was being lied to all of the years she was on HRT.
Quote: Painful IC was the result and I wept - is this the end of a SL?
Change that a little for BB to-IC equals UTI's, UTI's equal pain, and for me "I don't want to be the one to cause BB to have UTI's - is this the end of a SL? Is this my reward after a year of Dbing?
Quote: I think it's great you can perform miracles on demand
The comment about the short time interval reparing the A/C needs some more information added to be a whole picture. I am not a miracle worker or di-it now person. Far from it IRL.
I had a defective part (O ring seal) that used to cost .10 to .25 cents and went to buy a new one. The parts store said the "O ring" now cost $8.00 so it took me almost 2 weeks to find a small garage that would sell me an O ring from his assortment. I have my assortment of 250 "O rings" that I paid $10.00 but they were the old composition, black neopreme to use with R12 refrigerant. The cars with R134 required the newer green ot blue compesition of rubber/or neopreme? You can buy an assortment of 100 for $25.00
It took longer to repair the A/C than I wanted to because I refuse to be ripped off and pay $8.00 for a .25 cent part. My line of thinking is, the more someone gets away with being a rip-off-artist ( high priced anything including medical care) the more they feel justified in their entitlement to their quick and unjustified financial gains. Am I crazy for bucking the trend?
So to be fair the A/C was not working for 2 weeks and BB was at her limit.
Why do I post this about the A/C. I did not want anyone to be miss led that I preforme on demand. I "usually" take too long to get things done.
RE: theadmill price $950 The health and fitness store's origional price for the treadmill was $1,399. The $1250 price was store's price with their own rebate game they play.
The tread mill? I can smell inflated prices, especially with back-up information gathered from the internet. Sometimes negoating works, sometimes it doesn't.
Set your limits after you have enough facts and stick to your limits. I keep telling myself, "you were not born with a _____________ or treadmill in this case, there are lots around, and anyone can can spend money. The trick is to get value when you do spend.
Looks like I am the (80% me/20% her) official problem solver for the UTI's. I bought Patient's Encyclopaedia of Urinary Tract Infection, Sexual Cystitis and Interstitial Cystitis. I hope it helps. I see if I keep at it BB will pick up some slack. She started drinking the cranberry juice.
For those people with spouses that think sex/ML should just be spontaneous, I have news. It may have been, but in my case, I know it won't be that way anymore. I am going to have to do it by the numbers ( wash this, lube that, don't touch that, do this in this position) or the UTI's a sure thing. Menopause is a time of changes and developing new approaches to sex if you want it in your life. The "no estrogen creams/devices allowed" thing is making matters worse too.
I see the problem as BB not very motivated and thinks nothing can be done to reduce the UTI's except fo no sex. It seems to follow her other patterns of all or nothing thinking. Some of the all or nothing thinking is real to her, some I know is a bluff to get me to do things for her, some is resentment for things she feels cheated out of. I dont know if it is her feeling cheated or slipping into a passive/sagressive mode with out thinking about it.
I see things work If I stand relative firm on some issues like saying I am not ready to give all sex. I think I said she could but I would be spending less time at home. No threatning to have an A, just stating I might have to develope interest outside of the home.
LostGal, you say your H is affectionate to the cats but not you. BB is very affectionate and considerate to her dogs. When everyone is in bed (dogs included) and she has to go to the bathroom, she will say sorry to them for moving them so she can pull the covers back to get out of bed. Then she kisses them.
I asked why her why she does this to the dogs and not me. BB said the dogs don't want anything back, are never gone, follow her around the house while I am off working or doing my thing. Knowing this,I have an emotionally difficult time rubbing her back to see most of her affection go to the dogs and little to me.
I need to detach, up the R talks and keep saying what I need even if she resents what I say, or figure out a better plan and do more GAL activities.
Shopping/Donations: Getting rid of VHS tapes and buying DVD's of the same things and some net titles. More TupperWare and kitchen gadgets to the donation stores. More of my old (parts machines) printers in the trash.
Getting Stuck: Everything I do seems to take too long. I have trouble starting a small project or I start a small project, get side tracked and an hour job takes three hours.
For the things I rest starting to work on, I see too many potential problems and like other people, don't want to find myself stuck in the middle of a task with out answers so I can finish the job correctly. I don't need any more half finished projects.
In addition to a very slow process of trying to make the M better, getting stuck in other areas has increased.
Reply to NOP poster here instead of on HairDog's thread.
RE: NOP
Quote: From my perspective, there are two basic ways to chip away at entitlement. Engage in activities that build respect for the disrespected partner. Expose the entitlement for what it is.
NOP I have been trying to compliment every chance that I see BB doing something for the R and hoping that brings her some self confidence and appreciation.
Does this describe an entitlement classification or condition? A bit ago, I said something to BB about the other "Shopping Queen" in the neighborhood. The lady had new orange "air" sandals and BB asked me if they looked good and did she get them from QVC. I said she bought them at (local store) and the color was too bold and clashed with "queenies" hair. BB said she really does not have to have new sandals right now (10 pair of sandals and 20 pairs of other types of foot wear in the closet) but that is where she went shopping. The way BB talks she is down to almost rags for footwear.
The way I take the above is in the class of entitlement, (BB=I deserve what I want) or am I off base?
I do bring up or expose entitlement issues when I can use a concrete object (something she bought we already have) to discuss an issue. I can see some progress only after setting some strict limits that make me look like the over controlling H in her eyes. Her opinion, and her friends limited opinions are, "do what makes you happy" and do not let anyone rain on your parade.
Lou
PS BB just got home and has 2 pair. Good news they were only $7.49 each. Of course, there was the $950 treadmill last week, the $40 DVD's yesterday. I guess some people need a new every couple of days. Does this qualify as an entitlement attitude?
Quote: Last friday and today I too had to almost rip my heart out and lay it on the line. It hurt BB both times. I did not want to do that but did not know how else to move foward. Maybe it did some good.
MrS NOP reply
OG, I hope it did some good, too. When you force yourself to push through another one of *those* conversations, I think presentation means a lot (whether or not it is well received initially). When NOP did calm, reserved, yet overlaid with warmth convos, those went the deepest and stayed the longest.
For those spouses who aren't seeming to work on the relationship, it's probably because they've grown accustomed to being totally wrapped up in themselves, their issues, their hurts, resentments and miseries or maybe just their own interests. And from that space, it is very easy to objectify your spouse and ignore or fail to see what *they* may be going through.
Those conversations, painful though they are, are instrumental in getting your spouse to actually look at and consider *you*.MrsNOP
Fridays gut wrencher started from yet another put down that I am a slob and I take for ever to get things done. Partially true but the putdowns were coming one right after another.
I was accused of several things and I returned with "Yes you are right and I intend to do it more" which is a 180 for me. I usually try to minimize what BB is complaining about. This time I went along with what she was dishing out. I just got tired of defending myself.
ReWriting history. Monday I say a couple enter a store, turn around and leave. I pointed it out to BB. Her comment was "The guy must be like you, leaving his wallet at home like you always do, but you are getting better."
This time I defended myself and asked BB to say when I last left my wallet at home and when it happened other times. The short verison was I did it a couple of times in 37 years and a couple of times when the kids were in school I went in a store forgetting I gave the kids all of my money so I had to put back some things on the store shelf, go home or to the ATM, go back to the store and make my purchases.
Today it started with the eye roll and another put down because I answered the phone instead of closing a door that was open since we got up. (BB turned on the air conditioner)
For me it was about me working on the R, sex, touching, being together, suggesting things we try, things I am doing to improve the R and asking for BB's opinion, which has mostly been "I don't know" or a slightly sarcastic "well, how do you want me to be". That led to BB saying "I am the way I am and you can't change people.
I said I was tired of living like this, making improvements, her deciding which improvements measured up, new problems coming up after some old ones were solved. Not a nice talk. I basically said there were too many problems concerning connecting sexually to continue living as a married couple and her idea of living as room mates was too difficult for me.
She said she loved me but really had no interest in sex since 1981 and really wished I would act my age. She indicated I was way over sexed (1X/month) and all other guys my age had ED. More was said but I won't post it.
We were both emotionally hurting, so a few minuets later I took her hand and led her to the bedroom and we laid on the bed holding each other. BB offered mercy sex (with several conditions and brought up the possible UTI's again) but I said no. I don't want to browbeat/intimidate anyone into anything. I did ask for a rain check and said I would love to have sex if we did it according to the UTI prevention book which she did not see the need to go through all of the pee/clean-up/pee steps. So I guess I am loved but not her lover.
Tonight more minor slightly medical issues (comfort type) came up so the rain check got washed out. I did the slow foot/leg rub from 8:30 to 11PM. Then BB went to bed. I am on the computer.
What I see BB has NO interest in sex, Has been resentful in this area since 1981. (she rewrote our sexual history saying I ignored her for a very long time (years). I said the back injury and surgery greatly limited our sex life for 4 months then ocassional sex for another couple of months) Just does it with me so I won't go crazy or leave (didn't actually ask), Has real medical (some minor some major) issues but does not want to take the steps to reduce those (UTI's, gas, body contact triggers hot flashes etc) Tells me she can't change because I want something to change. She has to be herself, do what she feels comfortable doing. Said women were not biologically made to have sex much after menopause. We almost fix one problem and then some old one surfaces big time.
I was hopeful we could work on the R and the differences in sex drive but I am beginning to see I am/was fooling myself. I see BB getting more like one of her picky relatives most people like but can only stand to be around in short time peroids.
I see BB loving her dogs but having trouble relating to me the way I need. It seems to be, the more I do, the poorer the progress. I am mostly just "liked" I guess.
What to do? My first option is to move out more of my business inventory because BB tells me it is making her very resentful.
My second option is to back off on the physical stuff and quit wishing it would improve.
My third option is to depend on myself more for my happiness. Do more things for and by myself.
My other plan is to not let my feelings get so bad before I talk about them. (Conversations need to be calm, reserved, yet overlaid with warmth) Then maybe the big guns will not have to show up.
I need to accept BB will only work on some issues a little bit with me because they are of so little interest tom her. Sometimes, when I bring them up it creates hostility.
Maybe some day I will have something I look foward to doing.
My job= differentiating, set apart, separate, discriminate.
Quote: My other plan is to not let my feelings get so bad before I talk about them. (Conversations need to be calm, reserved, yet overlaid with warmth) Then maybe the big guns will not have to show up.
I agree with this, but the thing that makes it hard in my sich, and maybe your sich too, is that I find myself surprised when things suddenly go south again and I'm not prepared to express myself in a calm manner. When your W started putting you down by calling you a slob, you probably weren't expecting to have to address that issue right then or maybe even ever again . I think your response was good because it might force her to address what she is really willing to do to if you don't improve in your slobbiness. Is she going to take action or draw boundaries around the issue or is she just going to keep on complaining and insulting you for the rest of your lives?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I got in bed and BB asked why I stay up so late (civil question, civil and honest answer returned). I said I was very frustrated sexually and frustrated with the lack of progress with the R we had. I told her I felt like reading till I was so tired my tiredness over took my frustrations.
BB for once did not jump in and defend her position on sex and why she was right. I said my feelings of frustration were mine and was not going to do a "if you were not so xyz I would feel better. I owned my feelings. I recapped the medical issues she has and said that I empathise with her but still felt short changed and disappointed she was not doing more to at least try to improve or compensate in some areas. She did not say anything like she usually does.
I tried to go to sleep and eventually wanted to hold her hand for a little while. I got offered an arm so I held it and she said in a half comical way, "why dont you divorce me and get someone 20 years younger" because Women break down and sometimes you have to get a new one.
I said " why divorce? Why can't we do like Ridge on the soap" ("Bold and Beautiful") (Ridge divorced from W #1, Ridge marries W#2 she dies, Ridge remarries W#1 again, W#2 did not die but was in a coma, gets kidnapped and she returns many years later. Now Ridge has 2 W's. I asked (jokingly), "wouldn't it be fun to have extra help around the house and someone to talk about shoes. I said it that way because I wanted BB to feel like she still was valued but the no sex or almost no sex thing is so difficult for me to to live with.
This AM I got a couple of huggs more than normal and with a little more energy in them. Typically I do the hugging and BB seems to take them all in, even though I know she likes them, often her response or hug back factor/energy is almost non existant.
I am getting better at keeping the heat applied to the issues. The big guns (strong words)are getting smaller.
Anyone see where I did something wrong at 3AM or this AM? Also looking for advice to keep doing something I might not be doing enough or missing signs of progress I have not written about?
One thing that I am seeing is I don't make much progress unless I am willing to put my feelings on the line in a troubled but friendly way and a willingness to risk losing something.
Being logical is almost worthless unless you convey the idea this or that situation needs to be changed or the M will be troubled or the R is going to end some day.
I say this because Women on other forums say they "I Never knew he was unhappy." This applies to guys too. The clues are there.
What are the problems? Are the clues not bold enough, are people poor clue readers, are people so caught up in their own world they don't see the clues, or are they under the impression "It can't be that bad"?
. I think your response was good because it might force her to address what she is really willing to do to if you don't improve in your slobbiness. Is she going to take action or draw boundaries around the issue or is she just going to keep on complaining and insulting you for the rest of your lives?