Quote: I'm getting much better at saying EXACTLY what I mean to say...even if it is through tears.
This is a very positive sign, GEL. I told my W last night that I have gone through much of our marriage playing my cards close to the vest, keeping my feelings to myself, not sharing my intimate feelings with her. It's just not fair to her to do this.
So share your thoughts and feelings with your H. If you don't, they don't go away. They just get stored in a big closet labeled, "Resentment," which eventually fills up to the bursting point.
GEL, This is one of those turning point events in a marriage. I pray that your H has the foresight to see that if he doesn't step up to the plate fully that his GEL will be putting on her little waitress uniform and and high heel shoes and rattling pots and pans in someone elses kitchen (or her own ). That said, do you have specifics that you want him to work on?
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
Hi all...and thanks for the support and kind words.
Yes, he knows the specific things I need him to work on. That's where quite a bit of my frustration comes in...I'm not asking for the world, but he steps completely around those specific things I've stated I need. He still persists doing things for me that are his love languages....not mine....and while I can see he's attempting to show me he loves me, and can appreciate the fact that he's trying in that manner....the fact remains he's doing it in the manner that he needs (acts of service)....not in the manner I need, and this has been explained to him countless times by me and our C.
Oh and Hairdoggie...thanks for the wise words. Getting my feelings/thoughts out has been something I have been working on for myself over the past 1.5 -2 years....and I am much better at it now. I guess right now I feel I have nothing to lose either by just saying what I feel at the time I feel it....what's he going to do? Walk out the door? Well, if she should do that....then I've done all I could. I don't say things to be mean....and in fact do edit things in my mind before they come out in order not to be unintentionally cruel or mean when I don't intend to be....even though I may be thinking something that could just cut him to the core....cuz let me tell you, some of the things I've been thinking would be far from productive!!! But that's not me.
On the upside my H did finally take some action last night...he did finally initiate (although he did wait til the last minute). I'm happy he did do this, but to be honest...I'm not getting my hopes up. He's done this before...I break down, lay things on the line for him....then he finally does something....then goes right back to where he was before.
We'll see what happens.....I'm not threatening him with a D, or at least I don't feel I'm threatening, because I do keep telling him I don't want that (and I don't)....but I do keep reiterating to him that I cannot live this way....it just takes too much out of me. I guess what I feel I'm doing at this point is giving him a slap in the face of reality....."if" he doesn't step up, "if" he continues to ignore my needs, then he will be facing the consequences of his inaction. I'm still hoping that doesn't happen....and damn! I'm trying to give this man every opportunity to do SOMETHING!
I also explained to him yesterday (don't know if I posted this or not), when he told me he would "fix things" again....that "that's fine, you've told me that before....I've told you what I need, you haven't done those things yet and I can't make you do those things, I don't want to make you, you have to make up your mind whether you want to do them or not, it's up to you."
I'm doing a bit better today....things just piled up on me yesterday....I felt like was being stalked by Murphy!!!
Hi GEL- I stumbled on a very interesting thread elsewhere on this board. Here it is: Walkaway wives I'm not saying you're ready to walk away-- by no means-- The thing that is fascinating about this thread is that the poster names "Boots" is an extremely articulate (though bitter-- and who can blame her?) woman and the men reading the thread are just not getting what she is saying. It is incredible to read!
One guy started the thread to get the WAW POV, but when she gives her POV the replies are mostly telling her to calm down, that she's getting too emotional, that "if my W talked to me in that tone, I wouldn't listen to her either," and finally one tells her to stop posting! They simply are not getting it and they do not know they are not getting it. When she says something that makes them uncomfortable, they blame her for their discomfort. (I'm saying "they" because there are two or three main guys that she's interacting with on the first page of the thread.) All of this took place in March, 2004.
I guess all the men who are open-minded listeners post in this forum! Anyway, as an articulate woman who is trying to make herself heard, I thought you might find this thread interesting.
Boots best post
Well, let's see. I tried telling him I was unhappy; I tried the silent treatment. I tried yelling. I tried bribery. I tried being as kind and generous and loving to him as I possibly could, in hopes that he'd do the same. I tried detaching and not expecting anything from him. I tried telling him exactly what I wanted and gave him an incentive for doing it. I tried making it more attractive for him to stay home and communicate with me than for him to go out. I tried getting him involved in things I like to do; I tried getting more involved with what he liked to do. I went for counseling; I paid for both of us to go to marriage counseling, where he clammed up and refused to participate. I tried to get him to go for counseling alone. I talked to his family about my concerns. I wrote him email. I made to-do lists. I talked to him. I listened to him. I used "I" statements: when you do this, it makes me feel X. I told him that our realtionship was in serious trouble and that if things didn't change, I would leave him.........I also liked Men and women are not from Mars/Venus, we are from Earth.........that is one way to sell books. (The condensed version)
I guess I have more work to do. I was wanting BB to read some of the books we on the forum talk about. I guess I was wrong again.
Lil. It looks like one has to read the posts 3 times. Once from the guys perspective. Once from her perspective. and once trying to sooth each persons pain and try to help them. I know the guy asked for help so he could understand his WAW, then it seemed some of the guys tried to offer some words to make Boots less angry.
It sounded like Boots was never turning back and some of the guys were still in the salvageing mode.
If I thought Boots was around I would say 50 is not over the hill. I know of one couple in their late 60 that are so perfect together and I think this is her only relationship she has had in 30+ years. Rare maybe but it does happen.
I mainly posted to say I try to get it from others point of view. I know I don't see some of the female POV in some posts. Thanks for including the link.
Lil i read one of your post about sheets. Just wanted to add
I also like 300+ thread count sheets. Another good bed product is Nova foam 2.5" thickness "Memory" foam mattress topper Just sharing what seems like "have to have items". The toppers really make the bed so much nicer to lay in. Back to the main topic.
RE:HairDog They just get stored in a big closet labeled, "Resentment," which eventually fills up to the bursting point So true.
GEL I really hope you can make an impression on your H that lasts. I copied what Boots said she did to remind us that there are so many options eventhough we think we have used many already. The "not feeling like we are getting through" is a tough position to be in.
Lou, I didn't read the whole thread. I bailed out after Boots left. I was astounded how these guys simply did not want to hear what she had to say! And the one who told her to stop posting!! Yikes!!
Lou, it's sweet the way you remember little details, like me and sheets. I almost posted today to ask you a hardware detail. I uninstalled a window air conditioner, and I couldn't get some of the screws loose (insert punch line here-- ). But I finally did it-- used WD-40 and much elbow grease. I was pretty proud of myself. Then I got the ladder and washed the windows inside and out where that a/c had been since I moved into that house 13 years ago. Then I just sat at my desk enjoying the view of my nine-acre watermelon field.
RE: Lil Then I just sat at my desk enjoying the view of my nine-acre watermelon field
Sounds nice. Out in the country too. Any cold ones, that is watermellons. The other "cold ones", twenty-four cans of beer lasts me almost a year.
I lived in Florida and one summer (early 1950's) there was a watermellon price war. Would you believe 12 mellons for a dollar. Then a sign went up. Take what you can eat. No busting mellons.
Good you got elbow-grease to work. It does wonders. 13 years on screws that most likely have not been turned? I know the feeling. I replaced BB toilet and the old base bolts took longer to remove than to install the toiler and clean the floor. Old fasteners take time to turn and if they break off, well then it becomes a job making everything right again so the new stuff fits correctly.
BTW that new toilet is dandy. No more slow flushes and it uses less water too. Motivated me to put a kit in the watersoftener control valve.
I didn't read the whole thread. I posted on the thread much later but did not see Boots posts. It was good you pointed out her postings.
I know I offer "How to fix it" advice when sometimes I should let people know someone cares and understands. I gusee I am somewhat a typical guy with the problem solving mindset. You do much better in the support and understanding area so when I read what you write, I notice how the two sides play out.
I have literally fixed so many things, sometimes I don't see the emotional side of some issues. But I cant get emotional in my professional life. Machines are supposed to work in a logical fashion. Talking to a non-functional mechanical device never worked for me. People have been calling for 40 years so I guess I am doing most things right.
If you get to a store that sells the nova-foam mattress toppers, check them out. I would put them above 300+ thread count sheets. Just one of life's little pleasures and it is non-fattening too.
Had another C session today and I think there might actually be a light at the end of the tunnel...somewhere.
Hopefully I'm right in thinking that finally we may be getting to the crux of our problems....my H actually agreed to scheduling one night for us a week (his own suggestion) and said that now he understood why I had initially suggested a "schedule".
During our session today I brought up the fact that our C's homework for us is NEVER followed-through on. We talk about doing what she asks of us during the session...but once we are out of there, absolutely nothing happens. I know I am partly responsible for that...but dang! I'm so tired of having to take the lead in EVERYTHING, I really need him to step up and start SOMETHING. I told my H that "that's" one of the reasons I don't feel like a priority and I don't feel he takes me seriously. I told him "we talk about us when we are in here with (therapist who will remain nameless)...but when you make no effort to do what she's suggested I feel like you don't take me and our problem seriously. We can't get rid of the huge white elephant sitting in the middle of our bed if we just look at it and go "shoo" but don't actually go so far as to get the elephant gun out (my H is a hunter) and say "get the HE** outta our bed!!!"
Our C has come to the conclusion that H is resisting because he's still expecting me to behave like the women from his past. He's still bringing up things that I thought we'd dealt with a long time ago...."You want all or nothing"...."it's your way or not at all"...."it has to be when you want it"....NONE of these things have I ever said to him, all of these things I have told him several times before I do not expect, these are all his XR's talking. I had to continually repeat to him throughout our session "I've never said those words to you have I?" To which he'd say "well no."
This was definitely a more heated session as we kind of went round and round about him not even telling me that he thinks about ML with me (whether we follow-through or not is another issue). At one point I told him "it would help me so much if you would just tell me that you think about it at the very least, but you don't." His response to that was "so you assume I don't."....to the negative, very defensively hence the following conversation....
H: Because I don't tell you I think about you, you assume I don't.
GEL: No, I didn't say that. I said, I don't know what you are thinking.
H: So you assume I don't think about it.
GEL: No, why would I assume you don't? I don't know what you are thinking because you don't tell me.
H: So, if you don't know that I am thinking about you, you assume I must not be?
GEL: No H....I don't know! I flat out don't know what you are thinking....there's a big freaking question mark above my head because for whatever reason you simply won't tell me....you withhold that information from me even though I've asked you to share it with me. It is not in my nature to assume the negative but you are trying to get me to say that I have, and THAT'S NOT ME!!! Sure, after awhile I wonder if you think about it, but since you've told me in the past that you DO occasionally think about it....why would I assume you don't? However, how can I know when you do if you don't share that with me?"
Our C noticed the very negative spin he was putting on this....and agreed he's withholding for some reason....even his posture became defensive during that brief conversation which she noticed. I felt like he was baiting me to say something one of the other women would have said....and I really resented that, and told him so.
I did at least get the opportunity once again to reiterate that it's not "my way or nothing" because he even flat-out said ...
H: "well what if I don't want to do it when yo want to?!"
GEL: "that's fine, we can compromise"
H:"Oh! And how do we compromise? Do it when you say so next time?!"
GEL: No, I don't expect you to perform on demand....heck I can't do that either. But at least if you tell me something like... "honey, I've had a really tiring day at work...earlier I was thinking about you and really wanted to come home tonight and ML to you...but now I'm just exhausted." That'd do wonders for me, I'd know you were thinking about me in that manner at the very least. And that would make it much easier for me to sit back and wait for a better opportunity for us, or to wait for you to come to me when you are in the mood. But you don't do that, you give me nothing in that manner....so I'm left not knowing anything.
H: Well I've been in the mood before and planned on doing something on those nights, but you always say something and ruin it.
GEL: How am I supposed to know you've been planning it if you NEVER give me any clues? You wait and wait and wait never saying anything to me, never giving me any inkling that you are thinking about ML later that night....eventually I'm bound to reach an emotional breaking point H and say something to you. I find it very convenient that everytime I've done that "that's" the night you were planning on doing something...but I ruin the big suprise for you. That just appears to make me a very convenient scapegoat.
During our exchanges I was so frustrated I was tearing up...our C noticed that too and commented on the fact that he did nothing to even try to comfort me. She explained to him that she believes that for some reason he is withholding himself emotionally....so we tried to delve into some of the possibilities in that area....is he afraid of me? Is he intimidated by me? Does he think I'm going to hurt him?
He did let us know though that he thinks my "I can't do this indefinitely" comment meant I was definitely going to leave him, which led the C to ask me to clarify....but she opened up the convo by saying "she hasn't said that here, in fact she keeps saying she's trying to avoid that." Which of course I agreed to...but added ""indefinitely" doesn't mean I'd leave tomorrow, next week, next month, next year....or even five years from now, I don't honestly know when that would happen...it would be when I reached my breaking point. It simply means that I cannot go on like this indefinitely, it's not a time line for you to meet. But I do know that someday if things don't change I would leave. I'd have to, to protect myself from further pain. Right now I'm having to stifle a large part of my personality, and it's a part of me I truly like....but I can't let her out, you won't let me. She's the person you fell in love with who is fun loving, spontaneous, easy going, funny, jovial, witty....but she's slowly smothering and that hurts too much! At some point, if things don't change I would leave because I won't give that person up....I worked too long to become her and I like her too much....without her I'm dry, moody, too serious, and humorless....does that person sound like much fun to live with?"
That was pretty much at toward the end of our session...and lately those sessions are getting harder and harder....but it's eventually going to be worth it in the long-run. I know I saw a few lightbulbs go off over my H's head....and our C is really getting a true grasp I believe of where our problems lay. It was after we left the session and were driving back to his car that he brought up "the schedule" again.
Interestingly enough when our H told him (and she did say this, not that I hold much credence to it as I don't buy "normal")....most couples (of our ages) ML on average 2x a month (ok guys don't slam me on this, this is just what she said)....this caused my H's eyebrow to arch and he actually said, that'd be like every other week! In a way that sounded like he didn't think that was very much at all...so when he brought up the "schedule" he suggested every Sunday.
So who knows? Hopefully some of this sunk in for him.
). 
). But I finally did it-- used WD-40 and much elbow grease. I was pretty proud of myself. Then I got the ladder and washed the windows inside and out where that a/c had been since I moved into that house 13 years ago. Then I just sat at my desk enjoying the view of my nine-acre watermelon field. 