I suspect that MrsBube is in the same boat. I've mentioned before that she often tells me that she's not a good wife. If I ask her why she thinks that, I always get some non-specific answer like, "I'm just not." I suspect that it's her awareness of our (lack of) SL that's making her feel that way, but she would never say that. It might mean facing it, talking about it, and doing something about it.
My H KNOWS....what's lacking in our R because I've told him point-blank. He's aware of it, and he's equally as aware of the fact that he's not stepping up to the plate as I am.
What's stopping him from stepping up....I don't know. Can I make him step up...nope! All I can really do is keep communicating and let him know what the eventual consequences will be if he doesn't step up. So right now that's what I'm doing....trying to remain patient & persistent....and persevere.
Lass, Do you think he may need to see some of the consequences? I think he is getting complacent and it may be time for him to see what he may be missing out on. IOW he might need something scarier than a Counseling Outburst to be able to break through his fear of initiating.
I don't know what they should be, but he's been coasting for a year now making small steps but not really pushing himself all that hard. Just some food for thought.
Have you ever told him what your ultimate goal is? Such as, I want to work towards ML once per week.
From an outside view, I think your H is a lot more horny than he lets on. He just prefers that you force him into it, for some weird reason. If you don't do that, he takes care of it himself. That is my gut feeling. Of course, I could be waaaaaay wrong. Do you know how wrong I am about my own husband? A lot!!
I happen to agree with you that he may need something scarier than what happened in the C's office. The fact is...I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet to be quite honest. Why? Probably unknown fears that we all have, the biggest of which would be he'd choose the easy way out....just like my alcoholic x-H did. I'm not yet steeled for the possibility of having someone choose something else over me again. But for me, it's a matter of time until I am ready for that possibility.
I am considering some of my options, things I could do to really make him see how serious I am. One thing I am doing is beginning to behave more like what he described "backing off" to be. I'm not pursuing him, not reaching out to touch him, I'm spending time away from him (when our S is asleep...I go for long walks alone, when normally I'd stay in and keep him company)...I'm not calling, I'm not talking a lot. Why am I doing these things? Partly because I'm hurt, partly because this is the behavior I told him he wouldn't want to see out of me because that would mean I'm done. No, I haven't gone whole-hog on this behavior yet....but I'm distancing myself to see what he does. In some ways I'm consciously behaving how I did before I put my foot down about counseling....at that point I was ready to call it quits....and he knew it.
Right now I have other courses of action floating around in my head...but haven't formed a plan I'm satisfied with yet. Some of which included taking a trip (with my S) and telling my H that I need time to think about "us" and whether or not I'm willing to continue on the way we are.
Stuff like that...floating around in there as contingency plans...but nothing concrete yet....because as of right now I'm not willing to do that.
As for the MB'ing thing....I suspect he may do it, but have never even come close to walking in on him or anything like that...and when asked, he denies doing it.
Oh...and yes, I've told him repeatedly what my ultimate goal would be...I've even told him what my "minimum" would be that he could meet and I'd be willing to be content with. Both of which the majority of men I've ever known would find less frequent than what they would desire.
Thought I would come to your thread to let you know I just read your post. I do not know if congrats for the progress is proper wording considering where you state you are emotionally with your R. So I will state it this way. I am happy for your being able to so well state where you are and what you need to become satisfied within your life. But I am sorry that you are in a place that you feel this way. I wish you continued strength for your journey.
Where to start on this update? Well, I guess I could just say that over the last few weeks I have really felt myself distancing from my H....something I know we've all gone through, or are going through, but try our darndest to fight against.
I'm by no means giving up....I've just reached a point where I simply don't have the energy to keep being the one to "initiate" whether it be sex or conversations about "us". Our C noticed that I appeared very down and of course asked about it....so I was completely honest and told both of them that yes, I have felt the distance growing lately between the two of us and that in many ways right now I'm having to protect myself because I'm still receiving constant rejection from him (whether he intends it or not) but now I have to protect myself from that rejection because it just hurts too much.
I explained to my H that I'm the one always doing the pursuing so that means I'm never pursued myself.....I get to run around in circles after him, but I never get to change direction and be chased myself.....and I've HAD IT with being the sexual aggressor 100% of the time. It's unfair and unrealistic of him to expect me to maintain those warm fuzzy feelings for him if he won't meet me at least half-way.....and because he's not meeting me at all and I have to always go 100% to him....that emotional connection is fading.
Our C remembered me talking about what happens when I distance myself from a past session....and asked me to refresh that topic. So I told them point-blank, when I begin pulling back as I am now, in the past R's I've been in, that has been the beginning of the end of the R. My H just looked at me very defensively (almost angry)....and I said "you can't say you didn't know that, I've told you this before just as I am now, and that's why I've also told you if you want to keep me around you want to avoid that. I've also told you I cannot do this indefinitely without receiving something back."
I could tell by the look on his face that he thought I was going to drop the "D" bomb on him....which I wasn't. But I did tell him that "unless you will step up and do what it is I really need of you I feel this is the beginning of the end, but you need to know that I do love you and I want to avoid that possible eventuality." Those were tough words to say....but he needs to know that's truly where I stand and that he can avoid that if he really wants to.
He told me that he had been doing things and that he felt like I expected "all or nothing", so I asked him to clarify "all or nothing".....his response was that he felt I expected him to do everything I've asked of him right now and that if he didn't it was over. I was glad he told me that because that gave me the opportunity to say "no, that's not it at all. I've appreciated the things you have done, the little shows of affection, trying to spend more time with me etc.....the problem is you do just enough that I feel you think "ok she can see some progress here" and then you stay there....you go no further, then you slip back into your old behavior for a bit....then when I bring up my needs again, you go back to the little things you had been doing again. But what you don't do is what I've told you I really need. Those things that you have done go hand-in-hand with the things I "need" of you, so they are certainly appreciated efforts. But you still go no further." It's like I've drawn a line in the sand and said "honey I really need you to be over here with me but you refuse to even stick one little toe over that line."
Later on our C brought up the "communication" issue....and the fact that he doesn't talk about sex etc....to which we received his "well I've just never talked about that stuff." I reitereated, "I know you've never done that, but we need to....or how am I going to learn what you need if you won't tell me? How are we going to work past this if you won't talk about the biggest issue we have? I can't tell you how tired I am of hearing "I just don't talk about it!" When you say that to me it comes across so emphatically that it sounds like "I just don't talk about that stuff, never have....never will!" Which lead to...a conversation about the fact that I feel he's resisting what I'm asking him to do....our C picked up on that quickly. I even actually told him that I felt like he knew what I wanted, he's told me so plenty of times....so now I feel, especially with his comments about not talking about stuff....that his stance is one of....I know what you want, but I'm going to be damned if I'm going to do it! This took him off guard.....and did make him think, especially since our C called him on that and let him know that there does appear to be something unidentified at this point that is making him resist.
So...off of my venting session....and onto some more positive spins on the session.....although, in all honesty I do feel the whole session was quite productive.
My H did have a tough time with it, but we did get into a conversation towards the end that was much more graphic in nature. Trying to find out what really does turn him on sexually speaking...whether it's porn, erotic literature, a specific type of clothing etc.....which led to me bringing up something that has always stayed with me and bothered me since I found it. A little over 2-years ago (I've mentioned this before) I found pictures of my H on our computer (from before we met) that showed him in a complete state of arousal. I wasn't upset that these pictures existed, or that he might have even sent them to another woman before me.....what upset me was he's never showm ME this side of him.......so we touched on that topic. I explained again to him....it hurts me to know that yes, you do have this side to you, but you won't share it with me....because having seen those pictures now, I can't forget them, so I'm constantly reminded that you won't share that with me. Which led to a conversation about what does/what doesn't turn him on.....so now at least I have gotten a little bit of info out of him on that front.
One thing I did find very interesting that my H said towards the end of our session too was (if I can remember how he put it) was basically that he's now beginning to realize what's affecting our M is in a large part his "fault" (not that I would have used that word) and that this could have affected his previous R's too. Could have knocked me over with a feather on that one....I have suspected for quite some time that his behavior might have been a large contributor to the demise of his past R's, but I guess I never really expected he's cop to it.
You might think that after all I said in the office my H would have been really peeved at me last night, but he wasn't....fortunately we were able to walk out of her office with no hostility. I'm just really hoping that my H is hearing what I'm saying and really paying attention to me...I think he is, but only time will really tell.
Well, I'm sure there's MUCH I've leaving out here...just because it was a jammed packed session with me really basically just being bare-boned honest. Now I don't think there's one thing I've wanted to say, that I've been afraid to say to my H, that needed to be said to my H...that hasn't been.
WHEW! GEL - just a tad bit war weary, but ever hopeful!
She touched briefly on why he won't DO anything, and that has to do with the fact that she feels at least at the subconcious level there is something in him that's resisting me.
So I asked this question of him (which BTW our C thought was an excellent question)...."because of your past experiences in your R's with other women are you afraid or do you think/worry that if you do what it is that I'm asking of you and find yourself liking that and enjoying it...that I'll suddenly turn around and say Nope! That's enough of that! and cut you off sexually like other women have? You know tell you this is what I want of you then suddenly change my mind?"
He said he's not worried about this...but because of his pause before answering, I'm not so sure.
Wow - that was a whopper! Good for you for hanging in there.
I never heard about the photo thing before. What did your H say about those photos? It sort of touches on something I struggle with about my H. One time I ran across a poem written to him by an ex gf - it was called "the gentlest tongue" and was all about the ecstasy of kissing him. The funny thing is that I'm not sure if that poem was a reflection of the R or was her trying to elicit desire from him. I have done similar stuff to try to get him going. H often avoids deep kissing. However, I am left wondering if there is something about me specifically that H is afraid to share that raw sexuality with? Back to your H's photo - do you think it is a reflection of a more sexual prior R or is it more something H did because he knew he was "supposed" to do sexy/masculine stuff. Or was he experimenting with that side of himself at that time? Musings...
