I don't think it's a carrot so much as his own performance anxiety. MrH is like this. When he knows that he's supposed to be ravishing me, he clams up and feels incredibly stupid and inept. He thinks he doesn't know what he's doing and that he looks foolish when initiating. It is truly initiation-phobia--it's that strong in him. I suspect that MrLass has a little (or a lot) of this going on. He is fine once it gets going, but it's almost always exclusively YOU getting it going. My H would almost rather scrap the whole deal than put his neck on the line, sexually, and GO FOR ME. When he does initiate, he is usually shy and awkward and smiling, etc.
We had an interesting convo the other night in which he related that he was "conceited" in high school. He is not attending his 20 yr reunion this year and I was asking him why not. I told him that all teenagers were and are conceited--it's part of the adolescent mindframe...the world revolves around me, etc. It's very easy to go from there to "the world revolves around me and, oh yeah, I'm a babe too.." It's nothing to be ashamed of--you just grew up, is all. From his stories he's told me he was a completely normal teenager.
So I find it interesting that this conceited guy has turned into a quivering mass of jelly. Either it is as JJ says, and men are completely unnerved by female sexual desire, or there is something unnerving about ME and I turn guys LD.
At any rate, it might be something worth talking about...Did you feel awkward when you saw me in the robe? Did you feel afraid of what was expected of you? How can I ease this anxiety? Etc.
Quote: Either it is as JJ says, and men are completely unnerved by female sexual desire, or there is something unnerving about ME and I turn guys LD.
If I was a guy you wouldn't unnerve me and I only have a girl size portion of testosterone so there have to be some men out there who could deal. Also, I guarantee if I woke up tomorrow and found myself in a male body and found myself in a room with my cute red-headed voluptuous wife wearing a robe and perfume, I would not find myself becoming frightened or suspicious of ploys to trick me into sex.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
GEL... I know you were not being manipulative...I was just pointing out that your H will look at your actions through his own lens, which will be clean sometimes, and sometimes will be distorted ( from the previous women in his life).
JJ... I have to say that whenever I get unsure of myself sexually, I think about how Hank would react under the same set of conditions, which is not necessarily the best thing to do, given my type 4 tendency to retreat to fantasy.
Hoping you had a sex filled vacation or was that fun filled hmm guess both. I am eagerly waiting for your update of the sitch and to hear about all of the good times had!
Well we're back from our vacation....a nice time was had...unfortunately no sex. Well none that is until I finally said something on our last night away.
We had a counseling session last week, just shortly after we returned and lots of stuff came out of me....I don't know that any of it will make much difference right now...but at least it's off my chest, stated and out in the open. I told him how disappointed I was (which I would have done one-on-one anyway) that we had spent five days away from family, away from our son, away from work....with time just to play and have fun and he did absolutely nothing sexual. I told him that it really hurt/disappointed me that I felt like I could have had as much fun with a friend as I did with him on that vacation. Don't get me wrong, we did have a nice time....it was just non-sexual at all, not what I was hoping for.
I also stuck my neck on the line and told him a few other things such as....I feel like many of the attempts he makes just to make me happy or to appease me are "safe"....they're just enough for me to see he's doing something to be closer to me (sitting by me on the couch, rubbing my leg, coming to bed nude sometimes, talking a tad bit more to me) but with the exception of the one time that he initiated....nothing else that I had truly asked of him physically had he done. Mind you none of this was done in an angry manner, it just hit me how much I was still hurting while we were in her office....and well, it came out...it's bound to at some time.
I explained that he does these "little things" that I perceive as him appeasing me.....but in reality I'm still being rejected constantly....and THAT SUCKS! I told him I'm having to stifle who I really am sexually and I HATE that!!!!! It's painful not to be able to be the person you truly are to the person you are supposed to be the closest to and be able to share anything with. So of course the counselor delved into why I feel rejected to explain to my H the physiology and psychology of the connection a woman/man can feel with a good sexual encounter with their partner...and how it can physically/mentally affect someone if that connection is absent.
It truly was interesting to me when our C asked my H if he would initiate/pursue me more if I backed off (which I have backed off in my own way)...he of course said "I don't know, I might"...which led me to ask...."what would you consider backing off?" His version of backing off is a woman not wanting to hold hands, not wanting to kiss, not even wanting to be in the same room with him (this is what he's experienced in the past). I explained, "if you want to keep me around honey....you don't want me to do that....because if I get to that point, I'm gone....I'm done. If I reach that point you just described I have already left you I'm just a body in the house." He just looked at me in disbelief.
I guess I felt I had to reinforce that boundary/consequences thing I keep talking about. He needed to be reminded that he can't do the bare minimum and expect me to stick around either (not that I'm planning on going anywhere...I hope no one takes it that way, but I know I won't live without my needs being met indefinitely either.)
Since I had already thrown that out there...I delved on and told him more of what was going through my head on a daily basis. I looked him dead in the eye and told him...."there are days I think....if you won't step up and meet my needs sexually speaking then you'd better get ready to be ok with someone else doing it because it's not fair of you to expect me to live this way." I explained that no, I haven't had an affair, and no I don't plan to....but that these are the type thoughts that occasionally run through my head out of resentment, hurt, anger, etc. The fact that I constantly get compliments an offers from men almost on a daily basis....doesn't help.
Ironically enough....just yesterday I stayed home with our son (it was his 2nd B-Day)...my H came home during Dr. Phil, and low and behold...their topic was one of a sexual nature. There was a lady on there who felt sex was bad...would cry during it etc. My H actually judged her...and said she needed to make a "CHOICE" to be ok with it and that she didn't have the right to deny her H etc. I couldn't help myself...I looked at him and said, "do you really think it's as simple as making a choice to meet your partners needs sexually?"....he said "yeah!" pretty adamantly....so I looked at him very seriously and said...."you really think it's a matter of choice huh?"...he looked at me with some realization in his eyes and said "yeah...hmmmmm".
There were several other opportunities during the show that opened up a bit of conversation between us....the H on the show said he'd marry this woman even if he thought they would never again have sex.....Dr. Phil of course brought up the feelings of rejection he would experience etc....I could't help but say out loud that the guy had no idea of the depth of rejection he would be setting himself up for. My H just looked at me...so I told him, "honey, there is nothing like feeling completely sexually unappealing to your spouse, it HURTS!"
Anyway...I could make this longer, but it's probably long enough. I hope this doesn't come across with a hateful or angry tone to it....because I'm really not angry...hurt yes, angry...no not right now. Our conversation was just that....a conversation. No raised voices...just matter of fact statements. At least the communication is improving LOL.
Quite a bit of really important stuff has been said (I think) this week....my H even asked if we had a C appointment today, which we don't..not until next week. It should be interesting to see if he steps up at all in the next few days....to see if anything I said actually stuck!
Ever hopeful....and not yet ready to give up. I think he's just slipped into that oh-so-familiar LD comfort zone again. Even he admitted in our C session that things discussed in therapy, or things I say to him seem to stick for awhile....then slide off.
I am so sorry your vacation was not exactly what you had wanted it to be.
I do think it is great that you did just put it out on the line there in your C session. Sometimes when we just react instead of sitting and pondering and editing what we are going to say in advance we say closer to what we truely feel. I think we have a habit of down playing what we are trying to say through our own over analizing how we should say it and what it will sound like.
I was starting to worry about you and your absense I am glad you are okay.
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Sounds like a bummer, GEL. When will they "step up to the plate?" You can only stay on the injured/reserve list so long, and why is it so damn hard for them to just get up off the bench and walk to the plate? To extend the baseball metaphor a little more . . . it's not like we're asking them to hit a home run every time. Just get up there and try to connect.
Actually it's interesting that you said that....because I told my H just yesterday (during that Dr. Phil episode) that I often wonder the same thing. I told him..."I often wonder why you don't just simply do the things I ask of you to fulfill my needs...simply because I've asked you to and you know it's important to me." I didn't get a response more like a thoughtful expression from him like he was wondering the same thing.
An interesting thing to come out of our C session too is this....our C believes my H's needs are being met, so he's happy....therefore I have little bargaining power (so-to-speak) to motivate him (other than me leaving) to meet my needs.
This is when she began explaining to him the actual physiological/psychological affect that his lack of attention to my needs actually has on me....as a woman, using the whole oxytocin/chemical affect explanation and everything.
Also, I guarantee if I woke up tomorrow and found myself in a male body and found myself in a room with my cute red-headed voluptuous wife wearing a robe and perfume, I would not find myself becoming frightened or suspicious of ploys to trick me into sex. 
