Last night W made an interesting comment. As we were sitting down to watch Desperate Housewives, she asked if it was okay for us to watch together, given our sitch. I really don't know what she was thinking. Perhaps all the talk of infidelity made her feel guilty.
We had a good day yesterday. I gave her space all day, and then we did a bit of work together, and had a bonfire. We ate dinner by hte fire, and listened to the bird racket. W will possibly not come home tonight, and for certain she will be gone from Tue night through Thursday. Fortunately, the job will be finished after that.
I hope she really is backing away from the A, and not just feeding me another line of crap. I have a hard time telling the difference, so I have been assuming that it is all bogus info at this point.
Hi C, As an HDW, I had a hard time convincing my H that I was really this hot mama inside. It's like, in his mind's eye, he wanted to see me as this wonderful woman, great mother, etc, and (a whispered afterthought) oh yeah she likes to make love a lot. I wanted that last part to be right up there with the first. It is an integral part of who I am, and always has been. Inside I FEEL sensual. Married to H, I let that part of me slide as he had no interest in seeing it. It was VERY hard to convince him that I hadn't "grown out" of my sexuality in the way that he (supposedly) had. He seemed to view it as this "thing" I was going through, or something.
So if my H were to describe me and what I wanted and make no mention of my sexuality or sensuality, I would internally make a note of the fact that he STILL doesn't get me.
I think she needs to know that you now realize what a big part this plays in her personality. I know it is painful to bring up her sexuality because it inevitably throws Flabby Arms into the mental picture, but until I knew that he would forever 'see' me with new eyes, and never disregard my sexuality again, I could scarcely even think about a future with him.
These days he would not even think about leaving that part out of the description. When he says, I love your (fill in the blank) he is always sure to include something sensual because he knows that this is TRULY my love language..it is what makes me feel loved. Without it his flowery words will fall flat and I will feel that he is intentionally leaving this part out. (which, at this point in the game, he would be doing just that)
I just wanted to add this; I'm not sure if it has any pertinence to your prior conversation but it might come in handy for future ones. You are doing a stellar job, C. You really are a man o steel who is drawing her back in. Amazing!
Do you both agree on marital goals? That is, have you ever sat down and said, I want approx this many kids, and W will stay home and raise them while I bring home the bacon. etc?
One more question: How did you come up with your new thread name? Horn o plenty, as in a cornucopia of all your yummy vegetables that are planted..or horns as in the devil horns your W sometimes wears...or Plenty Horny as in your current state of mind...spill it, I want to know.
Also, please keep me updated on what is going on with the endocrinologist. I wish the best for you, health and wealth and otherwise!
You are truly doing an amazing job. I am in awe of your patience and maturity. You seem like a really interesting and capable person too. No wonder W is being drawn back in...you are fighting for all the things that are good and right and somewhere in her foggy mind, she is starting to recognize that.
I agree with HP that she needs to see that you really 'get' her and the contributions you made to the state of your marriage, and there will be a right time for that conversation. Right now, keep drawing her back in.
HP, As far as our marital goals were concerned, early on we compromised to have one or two kids, if possible. I leaned more toward one, and W wanted two. We never discussed stay at home raising, beyond the goal of both of us staying home and running the business. Since that idea failed, I have made it clear that I will do everything I can to make enough money for her to be a stay at home mom.
I think I am doing a good job at expressing my new understanding of W's sensuality, but it is a tough sell at this point, with the lack of any intimacy.
I haven't scheduled the MRI yet, because the Doc failed to get the insurance approval. I think I will be able to schedule tomorrow for later in the week. If the MRI is good, then I will enter a 6 month wait and see period.
"One more question: How did you come up with your new thread name? Horn o plenty, as in a cornucopia of all your yummy vegetables that are planted..or horns as in the devil horns your W sometimes wears...or Plenty Horny as in your current state of mind...spill it, I want to know." All of the above
BTW, the beer is tasty, and I am still working on the first keg. I suppose I should have another party. After W freaked out about the first one, I warned her to expect me to have another.
Julie, I appreciate your kind words. I hope I really am drawing her back. Sometimes I am not so sure. She is still not to be trusted. She is snooping through my stuff regularly, and it is starting to bother me. She seems so two faced at times, and she will lie outright if I confront her about going through my stuff.
I think she knows that I understand her pain, because I have equated it to the pain I feel by her betrayal, only drwan out over years. When she asked how I could forgive her, I told her that I knew how much she was suffering because of me, and I know how suffering can affect judgement. It will take a lot more that a talk to get through this business, but it is a start.
I am mustering up the nerve to ask for a raise tomorrow. The manager is acting a bit jealous of me, and was going to move me to "ebay 2" room, but big boss must have talked him out of it, since he told me not to move this morning. I have not worked there long, but I need the raise, and I know they need me. Wish me luck
csw, there is something that I have refrained from commenting on, but now I think I will. I think you will find it helpful.
When I was younger, I was an OW... actually several times. I also cheated on the men in my life-- on my first husband and on another guy, who was a live-in. All of that was more than 25 years ago.
When commenting on your W and the OG (other guy), sometimes the people posting here have imagined them sitting around and plotting how they were going to get you out of the house, how they would live here, saying tacky things about you. I think some have also imagined the OG putting evil thoughts in your W's head about you, even evil words in her mouth about you.
If others on this board have had experience with affairs, I will bow to their superior knowledge, but when I was in an affair, we NEVER talked about my partner or his. If there was any talk of the Future, it was only in the vaguest of terms. At no time did I and my OG imagine living in The House after we had driven the other spouse away.
An affair is a bad thing. It hurts people. It's not something I would recommend, and it doesn't solve anything. BUT there's not nearly so much Naked Malice and Evil in them as you might think. At least there wasn't in the ones I was in. We did not sit around talking about how awful our partners were. Never. The partner's name rarely came up. Partly from shame and guilt, and partly because we were in it to get away from the partner, not to dwell on the partner. So if you're imagining them sitting around talking about you and plotting and scheming, I don't think that is accurate. At least that was not the case in my experience.
The reason I'm bringing this up is that if your W does decide to come home to you, it may be easier for you to reconnect with her if you take off the Evil label that, ironically, you would need to paste on her face if she decides NOT to come back. Follow that?
She did something that was misguided and destructive. It was something human. Something stupid. She didn't torture little kittens or children or hijack a plane or blow up a bus. She hurt YOU a lot, true. It was wrong, true. But people can do better. I've done better. I recognize that I was "looking for love in all the wrong places."
TX_Cheater's (see other thread) W has a much harder task ahead of her. TX has been living the life of a cheater for almost 20 years, over and over. Your W didn't do that.
Soften your heart toward her. Realize that many people have made that mistake, but you can still connect and rebuild, if both of you are willing. Lift her out of the mud puddle and you climb down off that tall chair and join hands.
No one wants to break up a marriage if they can see ANY reason to stick it out. I think the divorced people on the board will back me up on this. Divorce is so painful. It's not something done lightly. If she can see her way clear to stay with you, I think she will do it. If she had wanted to leave, she would have done so by now. If whatever she was feeling for the OG was overwhelming and powerful, she would be gone by now.
She went elsewhere for solace, comfort, and to find out if she was still desirable. It doesn't sound like a grand passion to me.
So make it easy for her to come home and stay home. Be welcoming. Sounds like you're doing that.
I think that you will find your experience is somewhat outside of the norm.
Plotting and conniving are quite common, and in csw's case, of a known quantity.
csw, can of course, answer for himself.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
LP, I agree that what W did isn't akin to terrorism, and is nothing like tx-cheaters antics. She would be on her a88 in a heartbeat if she had a record even close to his. (I just left him a bit of a stinger) I am trying very hard to make it clear to her that I am willing and able to forgive her, and I am ready to call it all a wash, my LD to her PA (I didn't tell her that)
I do know that they talked about me and plotted a great deal (suffice it to say that I KNOW) I truly believe that is part of the reason that W backed off from the A, because she was sick of talking about how she should push me to give her the D. I don't think that W is evil, and I don't even think what she did was evil. It was selfish, hurtful, and even cruel (since she knew about my history) but evil is a mighty big word, and I don't think I have used it once before today on this board or elsewhere.
I appreciate your candor, and the insight from "the other side" I don't think I am on a tall chair, although I may sound like it on this BB. I am really down in the mud, next to W, rooting around to find her hand and lead her out of the mess.
I would love to begin to forgive W for what she has done, but she is not ready to a.)forgive herself, and b.) forgive me for being LD in the past. Both of these things are also necessary to move ahead to a new M together.
I honestly don't know if that opportunity will ever exist. I don't think W is willing to face her humiliation and guilt. She would be more likely to turn her back on the whole lot and start form scratch. She seems a bit nihilistic right now. I don't think she sees any hope for her to have a family, and certainly not with me. If I was making more cash, maybe she would be more willing to try to see our future.
I don't know if I am making any progress towards saving our M, but I am certain that I will not make these mistakes again. I can't say I won't choose another cheater. Heck, I can't even say for sure if I will be able to fall in love again. The thing is, I know that I can face up to my mistakes and try to make them better, so I will be able to move on with my head high, if it comes to that.
W sez she is now being totally honest with me. I don't think she is, and I want to ask her about her snooping through my stuff to test her. THe thing is, she will be sleeping here tonight, and will then be gone for 3 or 4 nights, so I don't want to have a blow up prior to that. I will sit on my negative feelings right now, and know that nothing is sacred until OM is long gone.
On Tuesday night, I decided not to play the game of sitting on things that are bothering me. When W got home, I questioned her about going through my stuff. At first she denied it, but she couldn't for long. Her denial attempt was pretty pathetic, and made me angry. She swore she didn't read my journals, but I am not so sure at this point. I walked away, and she followed me, apologizing for lying, and for hurting me, and tried to reassure me that she didn't read the journal.
W & I both had a bad day TUE. Hers was bad because it was the anniversary of her nephew's passing. He died from cancer at a young age, and W was very close. Mine was bad because I had started to trust W again prematurely, and realized that it was a mistake.
We lapsed into an R talk, and I told her I thought her C was doing her more harm than good. I told her that I would not be able to trust her or forgive her until she made some steps in the direction of trustworthiness, and NC.
She broke down, sobbing, during our talk. She asked how I could still want her, and said she didn't think I could ever forgive her. I told her that I was sure I could if shewas willing to give reason, and that I definitely wanted her. She went to get a tissue, and ended up squatting fetal like and sobbing. I sat on the floor and pulled her onto my lap, and held her for a while. She held me tightly.
In the beginning of the expressive stage of our probs, back in OCT, W said she didn't know what she wanted. In Feb, she knew what she wanted, a D, and that is when I knew the A was real. Tuesday she was back to saying that she didn't know what she wanted.
I am glad I didn't leave my concerns in my head. I would still be stewing over them. I didn't sleep more than two hours Monday night, and I wasn't up for another night like that, so I let it loose. I feel much better, and I think we are in a better place after the discussions.
She said she was glad to get some alone time this week, to sort out her head. I agreed. I do believe that the A is struggling, and she is beginning to see OM 's faults. He is currently living out of a motel, and is driving around like his own version of "The Jerk" with all of his prized posessions in his car. OMW said she fears that he may be clinically depressed, and may lose control.
On a different note, work is going well. I am very close to getting the big bonus this week. I will know by the end of tomorrow. I will definitely get the small bonus, but the big bonus essentially doubles my pay for the week.
GM didn't move me to the ebay 2 dungeon. I said that if I had a choice, I would rather stay in front, but he said he didn't think I would be able to do so. Monday morn, when I went to move my gear, he said to hold off. BB was there, and I think he said to keep me in the front office
I have a number of ideas for signifigant changes in the flow of materials through the sorting and selling process, and will sit on them for a day or two, until I formulate a plan of action. Then I will give the plan to BB and ask for a raise. My plan will centralize operations, save time, and will keep a tighter reign on the listers. A few are less than trustworthy, and one of the digital cameras recently dissapeared.
I went for a massage yesterday after work. It was nice. The masuesse said a few things that troubled me. She said that I would never reach my full potential by staying with W, that she thought W wanted someone more like her father, and less of a sensitive kindhearted artist. I really just wanted my back fixed, not an R talk.
After the massage, I visited an old friend,at her coffee shop. She was working despite being 8+ mos pregnant. She is a certified workaholic. I asked her to make an extra effort to return W's calls. She has been a bit angry at W, and they haven't spoken in a month or two. I told her how lost W seemed. We had a nice long talk, and she sent me home with scones, danishes, bagels, and a pound of fresh roasted esspresso The maseusse showed up at the coffee shop. I am beginning to wonder a bit about her intentions. Perhaps she is just a nice person, but I am certifiably naive. NOP, I am not open to any sort of funny biz, so don't worry.
Good gravy, you're just now wondering about her intentions?! Yeah she wants you. Take it for the compliment that it is but perhaps you could work some "I'm just here for the massage" language into the next session, that way she knows to lay off the R talk. And then get a new masseuse as soon as your arrangement with her is up. She sounds a bit unstable..showing up at places where you happen to be, etc.
I think in general R talk is said to be a bad idea around here, but you may have had a mini-breakthrough with your wife. She sounds almost human in these last interactions. I hope she continues to come around.
What was she hoping or expecting to find by rifling through your things? What was she snooping for? That I don't understand. Is her guilt eating her alive and making her think that everyone is cheating?
Good luck on the raise! In my current occupation, my GM is also my BB and he is too dang stingy with the money, if you ask me. Who ever heard of working for free for years on end, hmph. And when I ask for a "raise" I may or may not get that rise, ifyouknowwhatI'msayin.
I'm glad you are wondering about the masseuse's attentions, cuz I am too.
As for your talk w/your W, personally....I think it was a productive one. It does appear that your W is really backing off of the OM; you have become the man she fell in love with again. It's probably really scaring the heck out of her that the feelings she had/has for you are either coming back or are growing stronger again...I mean, I'm sure she really thought she was finished with this R a few months ago....now, she's not so sure and that my friend is a good thing!!!
Keep up what you are doing!! Sure most of the time you want to avoid the R talks, but sometimes a well-timed R talk is just what the Dr. ordered.
You my friend couldn't possibly be handling this situation better, so just know that when you start getting down about it. You're bound to continue on a roller-coaster for awhile, but you are really doing great!
And I'm not trying to instill false hopes for you here, but I do believe your W is beginning to see that what she had been seeking in someone else is now right in front of her, in you!
