Quote: If you have been able to turn things around with your W before what helped then? Is it something you can try now.
Well that is just it. Yes - "I" have been able to turn things around - by getting us talking about it - and fixing things temporarily. When things are good...they are good for a while. I'm definitely in far better shape than some of the people on these boards who have had nothing but suffering for years on end. But deep down I get the feeling that as far as sex she can "take it or leave it" and it just doesn't mean to her what it does to me...and that...well I guess some guys would be happy and not worry about it as long as they were still "getting some"...but the lack of importance she places on it just HURTS. I'm the type that would take the time and trouble to read and try to apply a "book." She wouldn't. She might miss the "peripherals" that come with a good love live - like hugging and affection which I am in less of a mood to provide during those periods when things aren't going so well in that department...but deep down if my penis fell off and sex became impossible I don't think she'd mind a bit as long as I kept all the other elements of romance coming.
Some of my posts come through as angry and resentful - I got compared to Cemar in one post earlier. But there are honestly so many things I love about my wife aside from the sexual issues...I find it hard to direct my anger at her. What I DO find myself resenting and being very angry at is a world of marriage books that always place the blame on the husband. And I've seen many of them. I know all the things a "good husband" is supposed to do and I honestly work very hard at doing them. BUT WHERE ARE THE BOOKS THAT GIVE EQUAL TIME TO WHAT A GOOD WIFE IS SUPPOSED TO DO? WHERE'S THE BOOK THAT SAYS, "LADIES, IF YOU WANT YOUR HUSBAND TO FEEL GOOD ABOUT BEING ROMANTIC AND SPENDING HIS MONEY ON YOU, YOU'VE GOT TO EXPECT TO HAVE TO PUT OUT - FREQUENTLY!?" Not that she'd ever read such a book. Even if she did, I honestly think she could never really grasp how important not just having sex, but being sexually WANTED is to me. OK...now it's coming out. Maybe this is like lying on a therapist's couch (something I've never done in real life) - but - eureka - this thought just popped into my head as I started typing that last sentence: IT WOULD BE GREAT IF I could just withhold sex for a short period and see her get uncontrollably horny and have to have me. Not that I'd want to hurt her by doing this - just that it would thrill me to have her "miss me" SEXUALLY the way I "miss her" in the same way after only an equally short period. I have a fantasy of us somehow being able to put ourselves in each others' bodies for a week just so she could see what it's like to live behind a penis. "That would teach her!!!"
Well this is just one of those things that a woman like her and a man like me presumably will never perfectly understand about each other. She'll never understand what an HD male sex drive is like to live with, any more than I'll understand why after a hard day at the office she feels compelled to sit down as soon as she gets home - and GO ON talking about the office for hours on end. Geez...a guy gets home from work and wants to FORGET about work...not go on talking about it all night. Especially when he'd rather be spending that time pursuing more pleasurable...er...pursuits....
Well now I have given you a brief glimpse into another aspect of the issue. Our love life's in the balance and it's more important for her to waste precious time yacking about every intricacy of the interpersonal relationships of the women at the office. And this is somehow therapeutic for her and has to be done. (And the marriage books will back that up). Unfortuantely the marriage book authors don't have any sympathy for the feelings of the husband impaled in one of those endless one way conversations about nothing. Remember the old All In The Family Show where Edith would be going on and on and Archie would pantomime pulling out a rope, fashining it into a noose, and hanging himself? Unfortunately in the real world the husband has to do a convincing acting job in order to appear interested in these tales from the office...even while fantasizing being able to sneak away out of those conversations long enough to get into bed even if it's just to MASTURBATE before he's so worn out from the details of that convo that he wouldn't be able to get an erection for 10 years if he tried.
Oh, I see I've gotten carried away again. But the bottom line is this: I've put up with this sort of thing and made the effort to recognize her needs for these sorts of things and suffer through them. I'd be the one to read the books and follow the instructions. But she never would. It's just not as important a priority as it should be for her. And after a decade of this, I'm at a point where...right now...I'm burned out. If anyone is going to make the effort, it's going to have to be me, because she sure isn't. And ultimately I'm going to make the effort because it IS important enough for me. But right now, I'm just burned out. Give me a few days or weeks and I'll unburn eventually. Then things will be better for awhile.
I just wish I wasn't the one who had to do most of the work most of the time. I've been very patient with her with many other issues of her own for a long time...and I'm at a point where my patience has run out. I'm counting on that just being temporary. If she had HALF the interest in trying to better understand things from my point of view as I do of trying to understand hers, it would be a BIG help...
While you do sound angry I hear the hurt loud and clear too. Everyone here who is more HD suffers from that same hurt.
I feel your pain about the books. For the HD women here all the books say if we just parade around naked or in great lingerie, strive to make only positive conversation with our H's, compliment them enough that OF COURSE they will want to have sex. Because they are MEN and they naturally want to have sex every second. I hate to tell them - this just aint always the case.
Books like Passionate Marriage and Undefended Love take a far more balanced, relational view of the problem. BTW - there is a book that speaks to women as you mention - some book by Dr. Laura - I'm not sure of the name. As you say, getting your spouse to read the book or do anything about the information would be the problem.
Yeah, it is "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands", Dr Laura Schlesinger (sp). Good luck getting your LDW to read it and abide by its suggestions though.
Yes, I'd heard of - even briefly browsed in the store - that "Care and Feeding of Husbands" Schlessinger book. Earlier today based on the above recommendations I went down the library and skimmed it cover to cover - enough to see that it definitely contains just about EVERYTHING I'm feeling. Best of all, I don't think my wife would at all be bothered if I asked her to read it. She is actually an admirer of Schlessinger and while the title of the book in and of itself might be sort of off-putting, I know my wife well enough to know that if she read this stuff in the way it's expressed in the book, it would actually help her.
There have been some things my wife has suggested and asked of me, which I haven't been too thrilled about given my current state of frustration...but these issues are going to be discussed again soon...I think I'll ask her to read this book as part of a "deal" in exchange for some of the stuff she's asking for! Knowing my wife's feelings and the way this book puts things, I am actually optimistic that it will go over well.
I left the library and went directly to the bookstore trying to get a paperback copy of this book...alas there wasn't one available. Then I got home and researched it further online and it looks like it's not available in paperback - yet - unless one cares to order it in Spanish, which neither of us "comprende." I'd really rather get this in paperback...but my goodness, if my marriage isn't worth $25 to me then I'm even worse than some of the LD spouses discussed on these forums! So back to the bookstores I'll be going - soon.
That book is perfect. I always liked the quote from Dr. Laura that goes like this: "Feed him, Sex him, Admire him, and he will work to his heart explodes for you!". I would do exactly this. She has high desire men figured out perfectly. She also has figured out that only WOMEN can fix their SSM's. She has no plans for a proper care and feeding of women book, since as she puts it, this will not work for the man.
That book is hardly perfect. That book at best describes one viewpoint, one aspect of relationship. There is a great deal more to it. We each bring our own pasts, fears, strengths and weaknesses to the table. Every relationship has stages. If you continue to insist on this one sided viewpoint the next stage your relationship will reach is called over. Is this what you are hoping for? If it isn't you need to read and consider some of the other materials mentioned by people on this site. Your anger is ok what isn't is your refusal to get past it and do something positive for your marriage.
I've come to the conclusion that you are a Narcissist....here is some information I pulled off of a website on Narcissism. From the way you come across on this BB, you fit the bill on many of the traits (I didn't pull all of them off, but most of the traits I have here.) You need to take a REALLY good look at yourself.
How many narcissists does it take to change a light bulb? Just one -- but he has to wait for the whole world to revolve around him. ______________________________________________________
Narcissists are generally contemptuous of others. This seems to spring, at base, from their general lack of empathy, and it comes out as (at best) a dismissive attitude towards other people's feelings, wishes, needs, concerns etc. It is also connected to their overall negative outlook on life.
Narcissists are (a) extremely sensitive to personal criticism and (b) extremely critical of other people.
Narcissists are not only selfish and ungiving -- they seem to have to make a point of not giving what they know someone else wants. Thus, for instance, in a "romantic" relationship, they will want you to do what they want because they want it and not because you want it -- and, in fact, if you actually want to do what they want, then that's too much like sharing and you wreck their fun and they don't want it anymore. They want to get what they want from you without giving you what you want from them. Period. If you should happen to want to give what they want to get, then they'll lose interest in you. ^
Narcissits criticize, gripe, and complain about almost everything and almost everyone almost all the time.
Narcissists are hostile in reaction, but they are generally passive and lacking in initiative. They don't start stuff -- they don't reach out. They will complain about the same things for years on end, but only rarely do anything to change what dissatisfies them so badly.
Narcissists are grandiose they're in love with themselves.
Narcissists have little sense of humor. This is because, lacking empathy, they don't get the context and affect of words or actions, and jokes, humor, comedy depend entirely on context and affect. They specialize in sarcasm about others and mistake it for wit.
Narcissists lack empathy, so they don't know what you want or like and, evidently, they don't care either; second, they think their opinions are better and more important than anyone else's, so they'll give you what they think you ought to want, regardless of what you may have said when asked what you wanted.
It's very hard to have a simple, uncomplicated good time with a narcissist. They are incapable of loving conduct towards anyone or anything, so they do not have the capacity for simple pleasure, beyond the satisfaction of bodily needs. There is only one way to please a narcissist (and it won't please you): that is to indulge their every whim, cater to their tiniest impulses, bend to their views on every little thing
The Narcissist believes that if someone really loves him, they would have see him as he wishes to be seen.
Narcissists are noted for their negative, pessimistic, cynical, or gloomy outlook on life. Sarcasm seems to be a narcissistic specialty, not to mention spite. Nothing real is ever perfect enough to satisfy them, so are they are constantly complaining and criticizing -- to the point of verbal abuse and insult.
Sorry for the HiJack on this thread...I now return it to it's original owner!
CeMar...this phrase is exactly the excuse you were looking for not to put any effort into actually trying to fix your M isn't it?
Quote: She also has figured out that only WOMEN can fix their SSM's.
This is the conclusion YOU already formed for yourself and you were looking for someone to validate that YOU were right. So, you'll continue to come here and bitch and complain...but you won't DO anything will you? Now you have your magic phrase that you can hang onto to justify your lack of action.
Yeah, I really feel for his W. Too bad she doesn't come here to see that there really are people who want their marriages to work and are making an honest effort. I bet she'd fit right in with us . Cemar seems to go out of his way to find quotes, even taken out of context, to support the world he's constructed for himself in his mind.
I really do find it quite sad...I've noticed that he's quoted that phrase several times, so IMO it's become his mantra and he really believes it to be true....and if that's the case and he really does believe it....there will be no progress in his M.
Sad really
I've noticed that for a man who claims not to have time to read/reply to all of the posts (so he only replies in part to things that fit his agenda) that he's on here quite a bit....at the very least lurking.
Knowing my wife's feelings and the way this book puts things, I am actually optimistic that it will go over well. 
. Cemar seems to go out of his way to find quotes, even taken out of context, to support the world he's constructed for himself in his mind.