So she can't have children. I can't have any more children and when I was told that, I was somewhat at a loss. Not that I wanted to have anymore, but the choice, as a woman, had been taken away from me.
Have you discussed her feelings about this? Is it possible that she feels neutered? Feels less like a woman? Grief can play hard tricks with our minds. While mentally, we know that sex is more than procreation, is it possible that she feels that there is really no need to make love because nothing will come from it?
Just some thoughts that you might want to explore with her if you can.
And just a heads up. I slept on the couch in my first marriage to avoid the confrontation of sex. I also said that it was because he snored. In my current marriage, there are times that I have slept on the couch because of snoring. The difference is that in this marriage I start the night in our bed. If he wakes me up with his snoring and rolling over does not work (like when he has a cold), I'll get up and go to the couch.
Quote: And just a heads up. I slept on the couch in my first marriage to avoid the confrontation of sex. I also said that it was because he snored. In my current marriage, there are times that I have slept on the couch because of snoring. The difference is that in this marriage I start the night in our bed. If he wakes me up with his snoring and rolling over does not work (like when he has a cold), I'll get up and go to the couch.
He now knows how bad his snoring gets and offers to go sleep on the couch...so we kind of trade-off when necessary. However it has become rare that either of us has to sleep on the couch....he's such a nice guy about it too....he realizes that way we BOTH get some undisturbed sleep....and never complains.
Honeypot, it's kind of both. I'd be worried that I would sound crude or ridiculous or both by trying to be too straightforward, and also that, if I did manage to force the words out of my mouth, upon hearing that, my wife would find it so as well.
Greeneyedlass...you probably have figured this out by now, but I'm afraid. There, I said it. If that makes me look weak and cowardly, so be it. I don't want her to get offended, and I also don't want to hurt her. She could easily start getting into the mode of "I've been a bad wife" and withdraw into a shell, and I'd never be able to break her out of it. At one point in the past, after we'd actually done it, I told her I loved her, and she responded, "Why? Because I put out?" Of course, I said, "No, no, no! It's not just that!", but I know she may still have that in mind at some level. Trying to talk to her about this could dredge all that up over again...and I think that would make me feel worse than if I inadvertently offended her.
Your idea of a letter that you mentioned earlier in the thread may be the least-threatening option. But I can tell that pretty much every other paragraph in that letter is going to have to say something like, "I love you, I don't want you to go away and I don't want to get rid of you, I want to make our relationship stronger. And it's not just the sex I love you for, it never has been just the sex. But that's a portion of our relationship that has fallen by the wayside, and I miss having a complete relationship with you, and I want to find that again." And I'm going to have to repeat that over and over, and pray she believes it.
Sometimes feelings are a tough thing for me to make sense of. I don't even know if I'm making any sense right now.
- "A"
"Everything that happens, happens. Everything that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Everything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again."
No I don't view being afraid as cowardly....doing what you need to do is difficult as all get-out!!! BUT..you've got to get past this. Truly, when I first started having these difficult talks with my H my heart was pounding, my hands were sweating and I could barely find the words. I was sooo scared what I was going to say would piss him off or that he'd simply walk out the door never to return. The ironic thing is he thought having those talks was easy for me...because I was always the one to bring things up, because he wouldn't.
Finally, one day we had a little talk that kind of just happened. I told him that a talk we had the previous night, that started with an e-mail was really hard for me. He looked at me like "why?"....so I sucked up the courage to tell him my fears. When I told him my fear about him leaving he quickly said "Oh NO! That's never going to happen!!, I know a good thing when I have it!" So we literally came to an agreement that neither of us were going to go anywhere...we are in our M to stay. Part of that conversation was me telling him that if I have a problem, or I have something on my mind he's going to hear it....he agreed, and we actually came to an understanding that no matter what either of us might say, it might tick us off, it might hurt our feelings, whatever....we'll both get over it and still be there for each other.
Perhaps you need to open up a conversation with your W about how afraid you are to bring up these things with her...because of...xyz. It's worked for me....my H and I can now talk about ANYTHING. True, I may be the one to still bring things up....but he's getting better, he's starting to stick his toe into that "iffy" subject matter pool too.
As hard as it is...and I repeat your aren't cowardly, just scared...you do have to work past this communication issue. Communication, I truly do believe, is at the heart of some of your issues.
You CAN do this, and you aren't alone in your struggle to get past it...and feelings are a hard thing to communicate; they make us most vulnerable to others. A letter in your instance might be the best place to start. And if you feel you have to repeat what you wrote earlier, then do so
Hearing it from a third party might not seem as threatening to her or as scary to you.
Also I knew a couple once who kept a journal. He would write his feelings in it and she would then read it and write her response to those feelings. It was easier, for them, than direct confrontation.
Maybe this is an option for you. Oh and don't feel bad about being afraid. I was so afraid to say something to my H that I put it off for 4 years. By the time the convo rolled around, I was bawling and unable to even utter the words making love or sex. We were both incredibly uncomfortable about it and now we can talk about it with ease. Amazing.
I solved how to bring up the topic by letting her drag it out of me. Once she'd uttered the fateful word "Sex?", that was the opening, and I mentally squared my shoulders and poured it out...the four years, the feelings, how much I missed her, the whole thing.
And you know what a big part of it is? She's been struggling with her feelings towards women.
I forgot to mention that she's bisexual. And yes, I knew about this going into the relationship, but I never envisioned it being this kind of a problem. After all, her last fling with a woman was years before we met. (And, before you ask, yes, she's been tested, and she's negative. She made sure of that very early on, and her announcement of her negative status coincided with our first really successful sexual encounter.)
She's been struggling with these feelings for, oh, roughly the time of our dry spell. She has not actually acted on them, however, as we live in a somewhat-conservative area of the country and it would likely be difficult for her to do so. I also believe she doesn't want to hurt me.
For her part, she gave me an area I could work on..."You need to take better care of yourself," she said. Specifically, she focused on my skin, and we went through several things that I could do: a hand cream that had been recommended to me by a female coworker (and that I'd gotten out of the habit of using), a refill of my prescription for medicated ointment to be mixed with my moisturizer (surprisingly, I had 4 refills left!), a technique and moisturizing soap for washing my face. I may not understand all of this, but I'll do it if she thinks it's important.
And I went into the closet, unlocked the briefcase, retrieved my copy of SSM, and handed it to her. She said she didn't much feel like reading it, but would look at it. I suppose, even if she just reads through through the first chapter, it may do some good. I acknowledged that this problem would not be solved overnight, but I do think we've taken a step in the right direction.
So, she's going to work on working out her feelings towards women, and I'm going to work on improving my skin. This is just a first step. In time, we'll take another.
Greeneyedlass, honeypot, sorry for not addressing your messages directly, but I figured this info was more pertinent.
- "A"
"Everything that happens, happens. Everything that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Everything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again."
The fact that she's bi-sexual is a BIG point that you left out. But I'm proud of you for getting things out in the open.
Has she considered seeing an IC to help her sort her feelings out towards women? Even in a conservative town (believe me I know how that is I live in the middle of the Bible Belt) that would be a safe place for her to do this.
It's VERY important though that she (and You) learn to communicate regularly what's going on with the two of you.
To be honest, I believe the skin thing is a smokescreen to buy her time to sort things out. Sexual attractiveness is rarely killed by something like that. People can gain several pounds and still find each other sexually appealling, same goes with other physical attributes. But do take care of it, since she mentioned it; it certainly won't hurt.
Now, with that said...are you sure there's not OW in the picture? People will flat-out deny there is someone else, even when there is, when they are having an A....just do some checking, make sure.
I'm proud of you for taking that very important first step! GEL
What do you mean struggling with her feelings towards women? Exactly how does she plan to "resolve" this?
I mean, if she identifies herself as bisexual then presumably she feels sexual attraction towards women. Where is the struggle in this? Is she saying that she's feeling tempted to stray? I'm assuming that when she got married to you that what she was, in effect, saying was "I am attracted to women but I want to be monogamous to you." Would she agree with that statement?
And the resolution...what sort of resolution could she possibly be talking about? How committed is she to the M?
I'm afraid your post raised more questions than it answered, arj! Also, I agree with Lass that the skin care issues are a smokescreen. But it sure doesn't hurt to do all we can to make ourselves sexually attractive to our mates. What I might suggest is that you start working on the sexual aspect of the R immediately and do it concurrently with the clearing up of whatever skin hangups she has. There's no reason to wait.
Finally, I think counseling pronto would be in order in your case. Set it up and go.
Greeneyedlass, honeypot, I only have a short window to answer you at this point, so I must be brief.
Counseling of any sort is not an option. As I stated upthread, we don't have the money to pay for it.
The skin thing may only partially be a smokescreen; she pointed out that, with the amount of damage to the skin on my hands, if I touched her while she had a yeast infection, for instance, I could catch it too. However, smokescreen or not, it would be well of me to carry on with her prescribed regimen for approximately a week, to establish my bona fides as far as making her comfortable is concerned, before pressing further. Perhaps that's when I bring up the "what did you mean by 'resolve your feelings'?" question.
I seriously doubt she's straying with another woman right now. Greeneyedlass, you say I should "do some checking." How would that work, exactly? Pore through her cellphone records? Install spyware on her computer? Or what? (Keep in mind our limited-to-nonexistent financial resources; see above.)
Again, apologies for the brevity of the reponse to your important messages.
- "A"
"Everything that happens, happens. Everything that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Everything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again."
