I see the point you are making, and it is a good one. Why bring up stuff that is not even up for debate? I should just stick to the issue at hand and nothing else.
Nothing to get sidetracked by...
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Liv, I agree with the others. I read that mortgage thing as you had already altered the agreement unilaterally, and I thought that set him up to be able to say, "You did it, I can, too." Now I understand better.
I think maybe even language which says "We are still married and you are obligated to support your wife and child" would be very powerful and appeal to his need to feel significant.
I could be wrong.
Can I say it? You and I did marry jerks after all.
I was asleep and was awoken suddenly by what sounded like D crying out, and I leapt up and rushed to her room to see what was the matter. She was sleeping peacefully. It turned out to be someone in the street making a noise, around 3pm.
So then I couldn't get to sleep. My mind was churning.
How have I come to this? Living in a foreign country that I had hardly much intention of visiting years ago, let alone living in, with no family around, and a B*****d of an "ex" husband.
I guess I should be thankful that it has come to this while I am still young and fit, not later when I might have been less able to think of options. I've known for a long time, in my bones, that I couldn't rely on my H, now I am seeing just how much I can't. What an excuse for a man.
I think I need to look at the bigger picture while thinking of my future, and that of D. Overook my immediate circumstances and plan long term.
Remember this time last year, I was in a similar position - about to go away, H pulling out all the stops to make sure that I didn't forget him and his tricks... Not able to just get on with the stuff at hand - work, D, travel, whatever.
This evening D wanted to try her hand at sewing. I was busy at the computer, it was soo difficult giving her enough attention. She seemingly has her Dad's lack of patience, and the moment something doesn't go exactly right, there is the explosion of temper. I had to explain to her that when starting to learn something new, one has to start small, and build up skills and experience. No use aiming for the most complicated result first time around and then crying when it doesn't work out. I actually managed to keep my cool and go through the steps of sewing a little "sample" bag, and she got there in the end and was quite pleased with her result.
What I resent most is the lack of any peace of mind, H seems to sense when things are going OK for me and then try to pull the rug out from under me.
I have a mind to carry on as if H doesn't exist, move country and just do without his so called "suport" yet my sister says this is just the tactic of a bully, to wear you down into giving in. I can't be totally independent in this country, sadly. Very difficult.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
This morning I sent H an email copy of my letter. It was as posted here. I also sent him a registered letter copy, as advised by the lawyer.
I got a reply by email quite quickly.
H says -
He did it (halved payment) to get me to discuss matters with him, which I have refused to do so far.
I am welcome to go speak to a lawyer, he is willing to come discuss, but he won't be paying any laywer's fees. I can discuss directly with him on the other hand, which would be cheaper for me. That would be a "mutual agreement".
And he won't pay for August, as he has D, not me, and the money is for her, not me to go on holidays etc.
He ends with "Cheers".
Was out this morning, and had a lesson this afternoon. During the lesson the phone rang and I let it go to voice mail. It was H, saying if I wished to know the amount to pay for our house tax, I had better ring him.
(The house tax is one we have to pay half each of, but the amount is not specified on the form, he has to find out from his accountant. I have been asking him about this the last couple of weeks.)
Comments -
The phone call is pure baiting - he can just email me the amount, I shouldn't HAVE to ring him. Recently I emailed him the pin code of his returned bank card, when he requested it.
As for the email, he is very happy, and rejoicing at his cleverness. He is a tin pot bully. It's about the only card he has to play, not pay me to force me to "discuss". The reason I have not discussed this with him is that the last few interactions were pure bullying and abuse on his part, and I won't subject myself to that. It seems to be impossible to discuss anything with a character like this. The only thing he accepts as discussion is my agreeing with his demands.
And also, my circumstances are no better than January this year, as I told him in an email, so there is nothing to discuss, as far as I am concerned. He wants the spotlight turned on me and what I earn and spend, but seems oblivious to what he earns (could earn) and spends. D mentioned recently that he has a collection of pipes from around the world, ordered through the internet. Knowing H as I do, they will NOT be cheap pipes, OH NO, they will be quality ones. And that he orders tobacco from the other country. He has a new iPod too, this week.
My lawyer told me that as he worked for both of us on the "mutual agreement" he cannot act on only my behalf. I would have to find myself another laywer.
One thing he (the laywer) told me was that the August payment could not be held back. H pays me a certain amount over the period of a year, and that is divided into 12 monthly payments, regardless of whether D is spending visitation with him.
I wonder how far I can go with a mutual agreement with a narcissist who sees everything the way he does. My sister reckons he will only stop harassing me when his payments have gone down to zero. And worn me out.
I was composing stinging ripostes in my head all morning, like while at the hairdresser's. Of course I will not send anything. I haven't sent or utterred a bad word /criticism now for ages, since about October 2003. I have kept absoutely polite and calm with the madman. Maybe that's what gets up his nose? I refuse to let him see me rattled. That would be such excellent narcissistic supply!
I think I have learnt a lot from DBing and being on this board, a lot of coping skills and looking at things differently, but my acting "as if" and being kind and accomodating has fed this monster and allowed him to grow and thrive.
I am now paying the price for switching off the supply.
Ayone here know, is it advisable to tell the bully he is being a bully? Will that enrage them further, or deflate them?
And, any personal recommendations for practical books about dealing with jerks and narcissists? I know there are many out there, which ones are really useful? In a non-Amercian, general context? I will read the relevant bits in "Why does he do that?" again.
Thanks for listening.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Prepare for the fight of your life. I told XH he was a bully and that I had had it. He then got a lawyer who now helps him bully me. I have not spoken to or had any contact with XH since May 29. He obviously can't stand it because he is taking me to court to try to dismiss my restraining order.
Keep pressing that you will only communicate via e-mail. My XH would call me 20 times a day, get me worked up and then record it when I lost it. Now I am having to defend myself against voicemails that I left after he completely enraged me on purpose. Don't take the bait.
My only advice is keep contact to a minimum and give him nothing. If you give him an inch he will take a mile. The longer I am away from XH the stronger I become, you will too.
I wish I had some wonderful words of advise. I am not dealing with someone narsissitic so can't even pretend to know what it's like to walk in your shoes.
I can say that you are doing a great job in keeping your dealings with your H very business like. Once you can pull the emotion out of the equation, it becomes much easier.
I would suggest getting another L. I know that money is an issue, but I think it would be well worth the expense to get it across to your H that you ARE NOT playing games, and you will not be bullied. You can't tell him that. Well you can, but he's not going to hear you. A cheeseless tunnel.
You seem to be getting stronger every day, just like what Moving was talking about (i've been reading up on her threads too). Keep working on yourself, getting stronger and more confident. Most likely the stronger you become, the more H will resist. Hopefully at some point he will come to the realization that you will not be bullied, and you will take care of not being a doormat.
You deserve a gold star!
Take care! JL
Life is not measured in the breaths we take, but in the moments that take our breath away...
Prepare for the fight of your life. I told XH he was a bully and that I had had it. He then got a lawyer who now helps him bully me. I have not spoken to or had any contact with XH since May 29. He obviously can't stand it because he is taking me to court to try to dismiss my restraining order.
Yes, I can see it will probably get much worse before it gets better. I never recognised what a bully H is. I suppose you don't until the chips are down.
What does your H need to talk to you for?
I guess I will have to write him an email being explicit about only communicating by email. I will not mention anything about his being a bully, as I think using labels gets them worked up more, and also I think showing them that you are rattled is satisfying to them.
I will think of other ways of finding out the amount of house tax to pay. Like ringing his accountant directly! My good friend uses the same accoutant, so she can give me his contact details. The fact that H won't simply email me the amount tells me volumes about his tactics, his extremely P/A behaviour.
Keep pressing that you will only communicate via e-mail. My XH would call me 20 times a day, get me worked up and then record it when I lost it. Now I am having to defend myself against voicemails that I left after he completely enraged me on purpose. Don't take the bait.
See above.
My only advice is keep contact to a minimum and give him nothing. If you give him an inch he will take a mile. The longer I am away from XH the stronger I become, you will too.
Yes, I have understood that about my H over the past two years. It's that grand sense of entitlement. I will just have to learn to be totally independent of him, then what can he do? On all the Narcissism sites, it basically advises you NOT to depend on them in any way, it never works. They will jerk you around for ever, evade their responsibilities etc, for ever. You can choose to fight them (for ever), or just cut your loses and forget them. They often "win" in the material sense, but you don't have the poison in your life on a day to day basis, and that is worth having! Some of the stories I have read about them are simply hair raising, and deeply depressing.
My sister thinks I should get as far away as possible from him, return to other country, but it is such a big decision, I am not ready to make it. This trip I am going to find out as much as I can about my options there. These days I feel as if my brain is going to burst.
Livnlearn
"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
Liv, even though you share a L, could that fellow contact H and tell him he can't unilaterally change the financial arrangements without potentially facing court action? That way, he's protecting H's interests, too. What do you think? I think it matters what the intention of the L is when he relays advice to a client! So, if the L INTENDS to save H the risk of punishment, then he's acting in the client's best interest.
