A peaceful life

[Livnlearn]

Hello friends

My last thread was Alone

I really don't know what forum I should be in any more. I am aware I am in the midst of those trying to repair their marriages and don't want to poison the atmosphere here.

I am not sure whether Hopefulness is the right forum either, it is very vague, isn't it?

This is what I feel at the moment.

I have tried for 18 months to repair my marriage, but although we have had ups and downs, H has said clearly that he will not come back, and he has flaunted his relationships with two OW the while.

I came to the realisation about two months ago or so that he is a full blown Narcissist. It is fascinating and depressing reading about it and knowing that H is right in there...

It afforded me a tremendous amount of relief. I am no longer trying to achieve the impossible.

I know for sure this is not merely a temporary MLC thing, although narcissists do experience MLC too, and it is not a pretty sight. My H is a narcissist experiencing MLC. I hate all this labelling, but it does help me to clarify what the options are.

I do not wish to be married to H any more. I would have to wait another two years before we could get divorced in this country. I am in no hurry to get divorced or remarry. But I think once we can get divorced, I probably will.

I feel right now that my best course of action is to forge a life for myself that involves H as little as possible, financially and otherwise. I wish him to have as little leverage over me as possible.

I do not want to deprive our D of a good relationship with her father, but I have got to the point that if it proves almost impossible to live a decent, stress-free life in the vicinity of H, I will consider upping sticks and going elsewhere. Constantly having stressful dealings with him on a weekly basis or more often, might just prove to be too much.

The last thing he did was send me an email which was decidedly unfriendly. He wants to lessen what he pays me for D and he wants us to sell our house.

He says I want to punish him. Far from it, I want a quiet life. I have gone past caring what he gets up to, frankly. I want us to have a stable arrangement that doesn't change every two minutes, and that recognises the work I do in bringing up our D. That's all.

The rest of my life is up to me. I am willing to take on that challenge. Just get off my back, H.

I realise that a friendship between us is not possible. It is pie in the sky. I want to work for cordial relations between us. Period.

I want to stop being rattled by every aggressive email from H. I want an agreement that is unequivocal, that doesn't need constant renegotiation.

Well, that's a list of my wants, next time I will see if I can come up with some concrete steps to take.

I may not make it much to this board for a while, as I am having my sister and her friend to stay.

To all those who have hearings and whatnot, I wish you the best - peace and justice.

Livnlearn

[psluke]

Hi LnL,

I love the title of your new thread.

[BeingMe]

Hi Lnl, hope you have a lovely visit with your sister and friend.

[MicheleTW]

Dear Liv, I posted on narcissism on my own thread, prompted in no small part by you and your thoughts! Thank you. If you have time to look at it and give me your thoughts, I'd appreciate it.

You sound strong and determined -- I'm so glad you started this new thread. Hey, you'd be welcome over in Hopefulness!

Your friend,
Michele

[Livnlearn]

OK,

A little post while cleaning the house before my sister arrives!

Yesterday, while shopping in town, I bumped into OW1 again. We passed each other twice while shopping at the fresh produce market and passed by as if we didn't know each other. I really do feel I have nothing to say to her, so as far as I am concerned, she will be treated just as any other stranger in the street. Suits me, and I am glad I have got over all the disruptive/exlplosive feelings I have had for her over the past two years.

Another thing I have noticed in the past week or two, I have had three different men touch me lightly (on the arm, for example) during a conversation or joke. Perhaps my demeanour has changed subtly and I am now less closed in and more open to light and gentle flirting? Maybe.

I would like to start a dicussion one of these days about what kind of men we have attracted in our lives and if there is a pattern, and if there are red flags we should look out for. I have been dumped by three guys in my time, and the dumping always happened after I went away on a trip on my own, for my work. Is there something in this? These guys cannot stand to be left "unattended" for even a few weeks or a month or two? Two of these guys I adored.

The other day older guy rang his aged mother while we were out, as he always does, to check up on her - a green flag in my book. But he calls her by her SURNAME! At first I couldn't believe he was calling his mother. I asked him about it, and he said he had always called her by that name, not as mother or Mum. There seemed to be no particular reason. Is this kind of thing strange and does it "mean" anything, I wonder?

Ok, I'm off now.

By the way, Michele, I will repond on your thread when I find a moment later...

Livnlearn

[slowly]

Hie LnL - Welcome to your new thread. I'd say we all belong where we feel comfortable, and I'm not sure I've ever seen any 'poisoning' - an alternative perspective is what we are all here for, right?

Another thing I have noticed in the past week or two, I have had three different men touch me lightly (on the arm, for example) during a conversation or joke. Perhaps my demeanour has changed subtly and I am now less closed in and more open to light and gentle flirting? Maybe.

Oh yes, We do this all the time, you'd have to be super self aware to realise what's going on, but yeah, reactions are one way to tell something has changed.

Enjoy sistah time. Slowly

[andrea]

came to the realisation about two months ago or so that he is a full blown Narcissist. It is fascinating and depressing reading about it and knowing that H is right in there...
I know for sure this is not merely a temporary MLC thing, although narcissists do experience MLC too, and it is not a pretty sight. My H is a narcissist experiencing MLC. I hate all this labelling, but it does help me to clarify what the options are.

My c always had said me my h is fully Narcissist.. that more than a MLC there a Narcissistic patology... How do you get that label... and what books or sites you visited abut this...?

I realise that a friendship between us is not possible. It is pie in the sky. I want to work for cordial relations between us. Period.

I undrestand you completely bc in our past separation i nevr, never wants a friendship with him at least while he just still was hurting me...!!.. we cant force ourselves for a type of relation we dont want...!!...

And yes, you are an atractive woman who can get a new life... you can build a new future, and yes... try to isolate from him.... they can really affected us bc their guilty and madness... go ahead
Andrea

[lettie]

andrea, go to Yahoo and look up "narcissism". You will find there are many informative sites that will enlighten you about this personality disorder. I have a good friend who has their Masters degree in social work, and they say that the two that are almost impossible to treat are "narcissism" and "borderline personality disorder". My ex-bf is almost a classic borderline person...if only we knew ahead of time what we are up against.

[F_KITTY]

Livenlearn

Would you mind to tell me how old are you and your H? For how long have you been married and when did he dropped the bomb?

Where did you come from? If you don't want to answer in the open forum than it will be fine. I can give you my private email address : [e-mail]

I'm sorry I cannot go thro' all your previous threads but I want to understand your sitch.

Keep in touch!
Kitty

[Livnlearn]

My sis and her friend are here. We have been busy, and generally having a nice time. I have also had to carry on with my normal everyday commitments.

H rings today and I pick up. I assume it might be about him passing through town sometime soon on his way back home, so maybe he wants to take D out for lunch from school.

He tells me he will be in town tomorrow between two and five, and do I want to go into town and meet up? Do I hell!!

I say, sorry, I am busy!

H says, did my new credit card and pin number come in the post? I say, some post did arrive, so maybe.

H says, I suppose I will have to wait until weekend after next for D to bring it up... Then he says, can D come up this weekend? (Like he can't rememebr that my sis is here, that we rescheduled the whole month for this, etc etc )

I say, she goes up to you weekend after next, she is with me this weekend, my sister is here. He says, when does your sister go? (What business is it of his?) I said, next week.

He says, oh well, and says bye and puts the phone down.

The phone rings again after a few minutes. The expected backlash because H hasn't got his way. I don't pick up. He leaves a message that he is thinking of coming down on Saturday and wants to take D our for lunch, to phone him back so he can know my plans (what the heck? ) and then says, that I should pick up the phone when he rings. Then the phone rings again, with the caller ID not apparent. I think that he has requested his friend to try ringing me on his mobile phone. I ignore it. No message.

I was about to text H the fact that we would be away for the weekend, which we are, but then I thought, why do I have to let him know everything that I do, for HIS convenience? So I didn't.

We just got home after D's school. The phone rings and I pick up. It is H, asking about Saturday. I say we are going away. (I want to practice saying no, without ANY explanation at all...)

He says in a sarcastic voice, thanks for ringing me back! I wish I had just said, you're welcome! Instead I said (as usual trying to explain everything and be reasonable) that I would have got D to ring him this evening for his usual chat and would have told him then. H replied, you just assumed I would be here.

That is strange, he told me the land line doesn't work, I have had to call his mobile phone this last week, so what does it matter where he is? Then he puts the phone down.

OK, here are my comments -

H is ONLY interested in getting the credit card off of me, with me coming into town to give it to him. Even though I have asked him repeatedly to notify the company of his change of address. He uses the excuse of wanting to see D and of her probably wanting to see him, to cover for this fact. He didn't even ask to speak to D just now, though he knew we had just come home!

He seems to think I need to notify HIM of what my plans are when I have D for the weekend!

And he seems to think that when she is with me for the weekend, he can keep coming up with plans to take her out to lunch? He doesn't even ask if it is OK, but sort of tells me what he plans to do!

D has her end of school year sports and party day on Friday. H has been notified by email weeks ago. He has not mentioned being there! (Big surprise there! Remember last year he went off early to have dinner with "friends" (OW1!) and he left without saying goodbye to D. She couldn't believe it and told me her Dad wouldn't do that... )

I have been reading up about the techniques narcissists and other disordered people use to manipulate, and I am SOOOOO much more aware of what is going on. It is amazing. I just have to practice giving the right response. Or none at all.

Here's a link to what has helped me see clearly what he is doing -

Verbal Manipulation

I can't post more now, will catch up again next week, probably. But it is all eye opening stuff. I really gave my H the benefit of the doubt all these years, but he doesn't deserve it, unfortunately. With my new (non rose tinted) glasses on, I can see him for the manipulative narcissist that he is.

Livnlearn