Hi TC...thanks for stopping in...I always appreciate your help and wisdom. to be honest, the AD's do help a lot to even out my mood swings, the anxiety and depression, anymore I notice the anxiety being evened out the most, maybe the depression is being taken care of. Now, here's my true confession: I have a bottle of prozac sitting on the bathroom counter. havent taken it for several months? why? I have lots of excuses...from thinking i'm fine so I don't need it any more, to feeling that it makes me kind of "shut down" (which would not a bad thing at the moment) to that it makes me sleepy (the biggest issue), to just plain old resistance issues. bottom line: you're absolutely right, I need to take it, and I will get back on it, tonight.
yes, with S being gone for a "spell", it will give opportunities for a number of different things...and I'm planning on trying some. going to workout more often for a start, since I won't be worrying about getting him picked up, etc..
Hey Pam, good to hear from you, some interesting points you bring up. hmmmmmmmmm, I am digesting them. they bring up a lot of thoughts.
yep, you're right, it's reared it's nasty head up over and over again. Drives me up the wall. What I've seen on the board it that for most people it does seem to be a process of letting go of the op that they arent able to do all at once. So it becomes a question of what am I able to live with to get to that point. Some days I'm clearer about that than others. part of clarifying that is writing about it so that I'm not dumping it at H, which gives him more control over it.
I am also convinced, no doubt in my mind, that the A is a symptom of mlc...if a lbs choose to try to ride the tide out, some things need to be done differently. and it's a darn long hard road that shakes you to your toes. I've gotten a lot of guidance from the Conway books, Men in Midlife Crisis by Jim, and You and Your Husbands Midlife Crisis by Sally.
lets see...no boundaries and no consequences, I have to think about that one for a minute. maybe not, or maybe I havent set timelines on them that feel "right" to other people. I told him long ago this was not acceptable, and I didnt intend to live the rest of my life dealing with it. Did I say "if it goes on for....I'm out of here" no...should I have? maybe. Would it have gotten the results I want from my H? nope. because I would have been saying it to try to get him to do what I want him to do, absolutely guaranteed to send him into "rebel with or without a cause" mode. he has had consequences to deal with, internal consequences that are much worse than any I could have set up (because he does still have a conscience) and are more likely to in the end be the kind that effect a lasting change...how soon that end will come is hard to predict. What are his consequences? physical illnesses the likes of which he's never had before; inability to do his job; guilt..huge massive overwhelming guilt; the confusion of trying to lie to cover up his duplicity; loss of respect from his co-workers, fear, loss of self respect for knowing he's the bad guy no matter how he cuts the cake; and frankly the rath of ow, which I think can be pretty hot.
bottom line: I still WANT him back, but he has to want to be back. HOW on earth could he want to be back with someone who brings about all those negatives in his life? Much better battle plan to let the consequences be self and God imposed for the most part.
Quote: your M at any cost, but do you really want your S to see that you are a weak willed wimpy doormat that tolerates long term infidelity?
excellent question, one that I've considered at greater lengths than anyone will ever know. What I want my children to understand is that as followers of Christ we are called to walk a path that is often difficult at best, that often requires self sacrifice and courage of a type that is sneered at by the world. We've spent much time discussing the parable of the prodigal son and what that means in our daily, personal lives. here on my bulletin board at work I have a handout that S brought me from his religion class that I reflect on daily. It's called "A Moral Guide to Patience" and refers to Exodus 17:3: "In their thirst for water, the people grumbeld against Moses, saying, "why did you ever makes us leave Egypt". The discussion that follows is: The bible tells the very human story of the Hebrew people who, despite their relationship with God, had difficult times and were tempted to give up. When Yahweh did not respond to their needs quickly enough, some of them turned to other gods. Families often want instant results. We pray, but if we don't see an immediate response, we get discouraged. but God gradually builds situations that are the best for us. Through out thousands of years of human difficulties, God has kept and fulfilled his covenant." that somehow speaks to me quite clearly about my sitch. We also have a handout that talks about King David, and how important his example can be in dealing with difficulties in everyday life, ie, that it's important to first ask God IF you SHOULD fight a battle, listen closely, and THEN FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS in the battle he directs you to fight. and Christs answer to his disciples when they asked how many times they should forgive someone who wrongs them sticks with me. Wasnt it 70 times 70?. So, maybe the kids will see me as a wimp; maybe they will see me as someone who had the guts to put the rubber to the pavement and walk the talk even though it was really tough. I guess time will tell. Oh, yeah, that's another hideous consequence that i didnt have to impose on H: his kids dispise beyond words the ow. there in nothing in this world she could ever do to redeem herself in their eyes. and H has lost several degrees of respect as well. he knows that. I don't have to say a word.
Quote: Are you content, at peace?
Actually, interestingly, there are times when I am, when the sun is shining and I'm thinking about all the possiblities the future holds, and I realize that inspite of my frustration and impatience God is working on this according to the big picture, when my family--yes, h and I and the kids--is enjoying closeness that we havent known for probably ten years, talking about issues and ideas and stories and getting excited about them, I actually have moments of pure and blissful joy. moments...I would like many more of them, that's for sure! I almost posted a couple of weeks ago and then probably didnt about the "moments of joy" that found us over a weekend. guess I need to post about the good stuff, not just my agonized insecurities.
So, anyway, my longwinded musings need to be wound up here. but what's up with your H? you mentioned he's a real mess right now? I think I recall he was taking a different job the last time i read your thread. I was wondering about you recently, and how things are going. It's great that things are looking up for you.
Hi Mollie, boy so much of what you say hits home. It's so hard to really let go and not be anxious about all the "what if's"....yech....but we do have to work on it.
I find it's really important to work on the WOA w/H. I know that's part of what went wrong between us before...so that's part of how to make it right, as Sage said on someone's thread today. I remember her saying what a huge difference it made in her M, and I can see that it's also made a difference for us. Plus, now I get some from H in return, instead of just his grumpy resentful silences.
and, yes, I know you and Totally are absolutely right about the AD's...I do need to use them. one thing that's an issue that I didnt post about earlier is that the Dr. has had me take them days 14 - 28 of my cycle. well, um, now cycles are as much as 90 days long, so who the heck knows when to take them? guess I need to just see about taking them all the time, or else on 2 weeks and off 2 weeks regardless of my periods.
Hi LivenLearn, no problem with a hijack! I'd love to hear Pamila's update also, I've been wondering what was going on with her. I've been reading (lurking) some on your thread, don't really post much because I dont know what I'd say!
ok, guess I'll take a minute to update. I had my appt with the att. this morning, got some questions answered. she doesnt recommend a legal separation, but maybe an "informal" one, which can be done out of court. KS no-fault D laws do mean everything is pretty much divided, although I know I've heard of settlement agreements that were far from "even"...60 to 90 days to finalize a D. The biggie for me though was that she assured me that it was possible with out a doubt for it to be set up so that S have NO CONTACT what so ever w/ow. That is a huge relief for me. S's hatred for her is so intense that it couldnt be good for him to have to be with her.
So, on the home front....interesting stuff. H was very warm and loving last night when he got home. not in a sexual way, in a warm affectionate way. I was kind of wistfully thinking about our sitch, and got teary eyed, didnt say a word or show it, but he came in from doing chores and hugged me and said "whats this?" wiping away smudged mascara...I told him I'd just been thinking and guess it got my eyes watery...he said there was no need for that, I should dance for joy....I didnt say much.
Then, H started to talk again. actually this is a relief, because I know what's going on this way. I got more info. H was incredibly unemotional in talking about her/the A. told me: ow is a demanding whining spoiled brat; has been making huge demands on him, which in his words "ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEES I'M NOT GONNA DO IT! I'VE ALWAYS BEEN THAT WAY" (yep, this is a guy ultimatums are guaranteed to fail with.
that her demand was that he move in with her when her D went back to her dad's for the summer---which was last week. that if he didnt do that to forget it. that if it didnt happen this summer to forget it.....H said 2x, I've thought about it and thought about it, and there is nothing there that I want" and "what I want isnt there"; he did say "let me tell you, the pressure has been tremendous"...he said this with such calm detachment, not all tearful or angry, that I tend to think he meant it. he commented that "she's pissed and I'm pissed"; I almost asked "so what happens if she switches back into poor me/victim mode", but bit my tongue and just listened. That she told him "If you don't come down here (meaning to live with her) I'm going to go work at the hospital"...he'd told her to go, that was an honest way to get more money, maybe she can work with the other nurse here she hates. I asked if that was supposed to be a threat, and how??? and he said it was, that she meant she wouldnt be around/available.
oh, darn!
then he started to talk about her...interesting, she must live a life of utterly disorganized chaos....she lost her cell phone in her driveway for 3 or 4 days?????? her backyard is full of stuff her dog drags out there...shoes, underwear, other clothing, a 12 pack of toilet paper it somehow drug out there. The dog buried her cell phone last summer, ate her contacts and some emerald rings, and I don't know what else. I cant figure out how the dog could get a hold of stuff if it was even half-way put away. that's the weirdest thing. H is not exactly a "neat-nic", but he doesnt miss it by much, and sometimes disorder (which I have to admit we sometimes have way to much of) can sometimes drive him wild. I would think a situation like that would absolutely make him nuts. H said you could never depend on her, she changes plans at the last minute and you couldnt ever depend on her to do what she said because she can't get organized enough to. That there is no "we" to any of her plans, that she's not even capable of thinking in terms of "we" because she is such a self-centered spoiled brat. That her sister is so weird that she freaks out and has to leave going into Subway and being asked what she wants on her sandwich because she can't handle the stress of so many choices. whoa.
This morning I asked (yes, I am going to keep my mouth shut ) if he was really certain that he was done and staying...and he said again, quietly and matter of factly, "yes, what I want is not there".
so, we shall see. I can't help but hope. I wonder though, is his seeming detachment an indicator of any type? what about the fact that he started talking again?
Thank God I was able to be pleasant and non-reactive and just listen, ask a few neutral questions. Of course, it was a lot less emotionally loaded than hearing about the poor wonderful victims horrible health problems and how I needed to be nice to her . oh, yeah, I'm still waiting for that letter she's gonna send me. Like I said before, I have that jotted on my calendar for shortly after hell freezes over.
Hi Pam it's good to hear from you, I've missed you. Hope things are going well for you...I'll try to get by your digs in the next day or 2...I'm doing ok, pretty good actually. H was just here, pleasant and loving. said on his own "we're fine" I gotta go teach class this evening, so have to sign off. talk to you soon
Hey Deb - It is a GREAT sign that your H is seeing her faults now!
And see - by you sticking to the high road, she has started to suffer by comparison with her whiny demands. (Yes, dear readers, there is a difference between being a doormat and being a beacon of calm and love - although sometimes there can be a very fine line between the two ).
Now - H said you should be dancing for joy - how about showing him a little of the happy, relaxed, fun Deb? The one he came home for? The one he has always wanted, but thought she was gone?
) if he was really certain that he was done and staying...and he said again, quietly and matter of factly, "yes, what I want is not there". 
. oh, yeah, I'm still waiting for that letter she's gonna send me. Like I said before, I have that jotted on my calendar for shortly after hell freezes over. 
I gotta go teach class this evening, so have to sign off. talk to you soon 
).