Quote: But if he is substituting porn for me, then I have a problem. I do not know if this is the case, but I suppose that I will eventually find out.
It's not necessarily a matter of straight-forwardly substituting porn for you. It might be more like his sexual engine will only start with the high voltage jump that porn can provide or it might be that he has a hard time combining soft, loving feelings towards you with the more purely aggressive part of his drive stimulated by porn. I know both of these are some what true with my H.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
One thing I might suggest is that you don't tell him how to respond to you, just that you would like a response by a certain date. I guess...the way I see that is that he HAS to respond to you twith a letter when that might not be his best communication style...I hope that made sense. Of course he might not have taken it as his only option for response...it's just how I read it.
Also...take some time to define for yourself what you believe him "wanting you" is, what would it look like? What can he do that will communicate he wants/desires you? So you can clearly communicate that to him. If you go back through several of our postings you'll notice that many people get caught up in their spouse "wanting" them or truly desiring them, true...some of the things we believe shows "want/desire" are the same...but some are different and very individual. Also, when he does do these things beware of not trusting that he's doing it because he wants you....but because you told him he needs to do that, so he's doing it to please you. Regardless of why he does what he does to show "want"...whether it's because you asked him to do it or it's coming from a place deep within him...he's doing it because he loves you and because he wants to make you happy.
I warn you of this because many people have voiced what their spouse could do to show want...and then when their spouse does these things they think they're doing it because they told their spouse that's what they needed...so they think they have to; it begins to become not good enough and that ends up putting your spouse in a no-win situation. Don't fall into that trap.
ME, I see a lot of hope for you, because you were able to communicate the depth of your feelings to your H, and he responded in return.
Have you had similar converstions in the past? How did those usually pan out? I ask because my H and I had many similar ‘pouring-out-of-the-heart’ type conversations, which would be followed by his initiating sex. He would try once or twice more and then things would slide back to the usual. Real and lasting change came for us after I found that I had to change myself first…this required a lot of introspection and growth on my part.
I hope you will also take us up on all the reading suggestions,
Also, GEL gave you some excellent advice. Read her post very carefully. Wanting to be wanted is a very human trait. Be careful that you don’t put the onus on your H to prove that he ‘wants’ you, because I think this is a cheeseless tunnel.
I wanted to echo that I think you have had a very good start. I do say start because the reasons that sex has fallen to the bottom of your H's list are still there. You can read post after post here where we HDs responded like eager puppies when our H's reached out (your physical response was rather typical too)only to have them summarily drop the ball right afterward.
Now, more than ever you need to read the Five Love Languages, Passionate Marriage and some of the other books suggested. You need to get your part in the R clear in your head. You need to know which part you are responsible for and which part he is. You need to increase your ability to express your needs to him in a clear way which is not bogged down in unexpressed emotions other unsaid issues. You need to get clearer on what your H's needs and expectations are. The only way anyone here has ever gotten anywhere is through clear, consistent communication without the underlying stuff.
If porn is something that he needs to perform, then I really don't have much problem with it. As I said earlier, I don't really care how the engine starts as long as it runs to me and doesn't hurt anybody else or himself.
If he needs to dress in drag and do the hula to get an erection, then so be it. I'll buy him a dress for each day of the week to show my support.
It's not the means but the end that I'm interested in.
Good point. I will let him know that I don't care what form the response comes in as long as I get a real, thought out response from him.
Actually the letter idea came from him. I was pacing a bunch, trying to get up my nerve to blurt it all out. He grinned at me and asked if he needed to dim the lights for my power point presentation.
You are cracking me up. Sounds like you and I would have quite a bit in common. Once my brain wraps itself around something it doesn't let go either. I'm more direct and to-the-point than my H is....and out of the two of us I'm the one who will tackle issues head-on....but we always seem to have an underlying sense of humor about things (i.e. your PowerPoint reference.)
Letters are definitely an excellent tool, but make sure this tool doesn't become overly utilized. Keep in mind that you two must learn to communicate w/each other....letters are a great way to get conversations going, but be wary of over-using letters too. I'm not saying you two are going to do that...but if someone responds to a letter w/a letter....make sure you two start talking face-to-face once you get the ball rolling...rather than corresponding
I too wrote my H a long letter....but I've never read it to him. I found that for me, once I wrote the letter....my brain took charge and it was merely a matter of hours before I initiated the conversation.
You two are on your way to recovery, I'm sure of it.
Also...take some time to define for yourself what you believe him "wanting you" is, what would it look like? What can he do that will communicate he wants/desires you?
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I thought I had. I told him what he did to make me feel loved.
And yea, I have already dealt with the "he only made love last night because he was backed in the corner" syndrome. But here's how I'm working through it.
I need to tell him what I want and what pleases me, just as he needs to tell me what he wants and what pleases him. It's much like a new partner in bed, he's not a mind reader and he needs to be told or at least guided to know what rocks my world. Right? It's the same in other areas.
And couples tend to become complaisant in a relationship and need gentle reminders of what is expected from their partner. It's a two way street.
So, let's say that in order for him to know that I love him, he needs me to hang from the ceiling and sing the Star Spangle Banner. I just don't get that, but if that's what he needs, then I'm going to do it because I love him and want him to know that I love him.
To me, it's a big chore to hang from the ceiling and I really feel uncomfortable doing so, but damned if I won't have that step ladder out as often as he needs me to have it out.
I hope that I have not given the impression that it's all on him and that I just need to sit back and reap the benefits. I don't feel that way at all. I'm on pins and needles for his response so that I can start to act. I just need to know what he wants.
Yes, you did do a good job of outlining what he could do. But do some more thinking on it...are there other things that he could do (that he hasn't done) that you would interperet as want/desire/love? Kind of give him a menu he can choose from...and maybe even try some different things. There may be lots of things he thought of trying...but didn't because he might not know how you would respond. That's why I said define what YOU would interperet as that. Was there any one thing in particular that he did that just Shouted "I LOVE YOU!!"?
See for me, and just speaking for myself here, I really had to think back on what made me feel loved/wanted. My list contains many things non-sexual, which surprised me....but I've found that when he makes an effort to do those non-sexual things for me that, at the minimum, I feel loved by him...and that is what has really helped me to continue working on our issues, maintain my patience, and re-establish our emotional connection. Just some food for thought.
And you are absolutey correct you must tell him what you want/need...and work on doing that in the moment (which isn't easy, I still struggle with this one). He may not step-up and start communicating much at first, which is very frustrating when you are working so hard....but eventually with consistency, understanding, and persistence from you...he will.
