So much of what you say strikes a cord with me. It seems like your W's heart is saying one thing and her head is saying quite another. The same with my W. Somehow, since our W's are the types that have academic training and leanings they think that they should go with their heads rather than their hearts. In fact, my W has explicitly said that she has been trying to "think" her way out of this problem. This is extremely difficult to do for anyone and perhaps it will take them longer to turn around.
I am sure that it is extremely perplexing how to handle your S5 (he sounds like a lot of fun and very creative about getting you guys back together). On the one hand, you want him to have hope, on the other hand you dont want him to have false hope. But, in connection to the above remarks on heart vs head, it seems to me that your S5's comments break into your W's heart as well as head. It is a dilemma, because one wants not to have children stuck in the middle of this, but they are the thread that holds a family together in these conditions.
Specific comments reagrding some of yours: "She has less time for work now." - same with my W. In fact, since she moved out she has focusses less on work. It seems like before the separation, she was actually using work to address her pain. In some ways I feel that my W was unable to balance three responsibilities - work, marriage and child. I also think that there was a crisis of confidence at some point where she was not sure she could pull off all three - she was overwhelmed and she admitted as much to me at one point. Now, unfortunately at the point where Hiroshima happened in '03 our marriage had experienced many stresses, so she decided to jettison that ballast to get some lift.
"W told him she had tried to get back together before and that it "didn't work." "- Funny, my W told me that she has done this for the past two years (since separation) and that it has not worked for her either. All crap, ther has been no trying on her part unless participating in a roller-coaster, pursuit-distancing dynamic is considered trying. They just like to tell themselves this to salve their conscience. Guilt is a huge part of the WAW mind.
"Now I really feel like a redneck, listening to country riding in a red truck!"- It's amazing how much my W, who comes from a rural background, tries to get away from any vestiges of that image. Although, after she dropped the bomb on me, she went berserk buying up all the country records (classic country, not the current pseudo-pop-rock-whatever-country) she could get her hands on. I think it is a low self-esteem thing about my W, she is not comfortable with her roots.
I hope you and your S have fun riding green horses and unicorns in NM.
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
Bravo, dude...bravo! Man, you are just one inspiration after another!
Merrick, you said something in your post that I want to respond to (not meaning to hijack here, Gabe...):
Quote: And most important, how do we minimize the potentially crushing vulnerability of showing such love.
I have struggled with this question myself. While I'm not purporting to have the "right" answer, I think I've figured out what works for me.
I know that in order to be happy with any R, I'm going to have to be open and vulnerable. With my currently-whacko SO, I have made a conscious decision to be open and vulnerable with him, and he has really responded well to it.
I am also developing a healthy sense of when I need to pull back. We can all experience "intimacy overload". Right now, I'm in a pull back stage.
For me, being open and vulnerable means putting my defense mechanisms down, regardless who I am interacting with. When I am able to do this, I experience the interaction much more fully.
So I guess my question to you is, and others reading Gabe's thread, would being open and vulnerable mean giving up control? Because it doesn't have to mean that.
Quote: If I was her, I would have racked up a few more points in your love bank. Most women love being taken care of, even if they are independent.
I hope this is true with W, Jo. One of my early, often repeated mistakes in our early M, was to assume W could just 'tough it out' with me. I assumed she could handle things - being the over-achiever that she was. Instead, she really needed me to be the soft spot for her to land on. I saw slight appreciation, guardedness (like "will he hold this over my head now") Saturday night, with her definitely pulling back on the phone Sunday night. I don't plan on ever mentioning helping her out Saturday again.
Merrick wrote:
Quote: how do we minimize the potentially crushing vulnerability of showing such [unconditional]love.
I heard a very important message in church this weekend - to trust my God's faithfulness, to trust His keeping of His covenant with me. I can handle the other stuff, including pain, if He has my back.
Koshka wrote:
Quote: I hope your W will let the anger go before it eats too deeply into her. Surely this will open her eyes to the ways you have grown.
I think there will be a need for slow, repeated healing and forgiveness thru her own work and my 'proving' time after time trustworthy of her vulnerability again. I remember breathing a happy prayer of thanks 'for the opportunity' as I raced off to pick up her and S5 Sat night. I later thanked her for calling me.
Russ wrote:
Quote: i saw SW #3 tonight, good show, how was your S watching SW?
Russ, S5 saw the 'old' SW movies. He won't see the latest episode (III) until he's older due to the darkness and violence. Doesn't stop him from attacking Dad well with his light saber, tho!
UD wrote:
Quote: It is a dilemma, because one wants not to have children stuck in the middle of this, but they are the thread that holds a family together in these conditions.
Excellent description of the dilemma. I just won't squelch his dreams and I know that he binds us together like nothing else. Also:
Quote: In some ways I feel that my W was unable to balance three responsibilities - work, marriage and child.
Nice point. I think if this happens, the W may 'lose herself' and needs to do the identity work to be sure of her choices. Your comment about trying to think thru an issue of the heart fits well. It may indeed slow down this identity and true valuing of M work.
Martha wrote:
Quote: For me, being open and vulnerable means putting my defense mechanisms down, regardless who I am interacting with. When I am able to do this, I experience the interaction much more fully. ... would being open and vulnerable mean giving up control?
Thanks for putting this topic out here, M. After reading Deida's work, I came up with a visualization of myself with open body posture - nothing crossed, but open, relaxed, breathing deeply and use that to keep my thoughts and actions positive and focused on W, not fear-focused.
Update Came down with 'pink-eye' myself - yuck! Couldn't I at least get some nookie from W if I'm going to be contracting stuff from her? After I called W this am to get S5's whereabouts for pickup, I found out he has it, too. Spent 4 hrs in waiting for W's MD treatment, 2 this am for me, and will be taking S5 to MD's this afternoon. W seemed ready to pull her hair out, near tears about having blatant pink-eye 3 days before flying out, needing to teach today as such, and lots to do to prepare for her trip. I felt genuine in my validation of her feelings, and told her I'd take care of S5, for her only to focus on herself.
Crazy day so far. Little work done, but I'll tackle it tonight and early morn Tue. Still gonna hit the gym quickly before picking up S5 for MD appt.
Quote: I came up with a visualization of myself with open body posture - nothing crossed, but open, relaxed, breathing deeply and use that to keep my thoughts and actions positive and focused on W, not fear-focused.
What? You didn't have to go the route of being naked on the highway with your clothes at your feet like I did??? Gabe, you need some work on your visualization skills, dude! Heh!
Seriously though, not being fear-focused is a really key thing here. It shows tremendous growth on your part, Gabe. Good job!
I hope you, S and W are feeling better and things are looking up.
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
Thanks for checking in on me on my thread. I've been super busy with the new job. I'm trying to find equipment to use at the farm. Can you believe these guys gave me the checkbook?!
I have a lot to post and I'll surely need your solace.
Couldn't I at least get some nookie from W if I'm going to be contracting stuff from her? 