As I was reading your most recent post, I have to admit that I had tears in my eyes when I read that your son prayed tonight to please bring his family back together... I am not sure if I ever shared with you the fact that I work with kindergarten students, but I also agree with you that seperation and divorce tend to regress children. Although my stepson is thirteen years old, I remember when I was still living with him and my H... My stepson was getting A's & B's in school. The last time I spoke with my H over the phone, I asked how my stepson was doing and he said that his grades have dropped considerably. He is now getting low C's and in one class a borderline D. Now, don't get me wrong here... I am not saying that my presence in that house enabled him to get good grades; however, it is pretty obvious that his grades have suffered b/c of the instability in his house and probably a little to do with the fact that he is left home alone quite often while my H is still at work.
Gabriel... You mentioned that when you and your son were having one of your "light saber duels" tonight that he seemed to have some anger toward you to let out... Perhaps you are right, but IMHO I believe that your little boy has pent up anger that is not necessarily directed towards YOU, but instead towards the whole situation. It is so similar to the people like us on this BB who have lost the dream of what a marriage would bring... Your son (and all other children who have parents who break up) is most likely grieving the loss of his family not living together anymore. I have no doubt that your son will excel with his reading.. You are such a wonderful father for purchasing the "Hooked on Phonics" series (I have heard good things about that program at the school that I work at)...
As hard as it may be to do, try not to let your W's negativity bring you down... The good part is that aside from your son, your W's crap is no longer really your crap anymore! You are such a positive, carefree, loving person and you do not deserve to be brought down by HER choice to think about life in such a negative way. I remember so clearly the beautiful "forgiveness" letter that you had written to her not too long ago... You stated that "you are free"... The one thing that you are free from is not having to deal with her negativity anymore. As you stated in your letter to her... You can return to the strong, manly, carefree, happy person that you were before you ever met her!
Who knows... perhaps her bad mood tonight was a combination of constipation from her mother's cooking, as well as it being "that time of the month" for her mentrual cycle... Your W is just being who she is and from what it sounds like on many of your posts, she tends to be somewhat of a negative person. The funny thing is that you are such the opposite of that... I see you as such a positve, free-spirited, happy person... I admire you in so many ways for those wonderful traits... Hang in there! Talk with you soon! -Kim
The WAW is full of pessimism. And you know what, they project massively on us and it puts them in a negative spiral. My W says I am unhappy and pessimistic. Hmm...lets see...who is the one that sees no hope for the marriage and cannot work on the issues- last time I checked that sort of defined pessimism? And pessimism clearly is a catch-22.
The one thing that consistently helped in the long stretch was for me to GAL and not react to her unpleasantness. In fact, now, when she vents (about world hunger, the North Korean missile situation, a nuclear Iran, whatever) I use it as an opportunity to DB. To be the best listener possible (courtesy Deida and Thich Nhat Hanh). Someone wise pointed out that men connect through sex and women connect through talk (except the talk lasts MUCH longer, lol, sorry ladies). So many times I have kicked myself for not being a better DBer when my W vents and I sort of stem the tide by not being attentive or by saying something stupid that stops her short. So, by letting her unload her feelings you are helping her get closer to you. I have actually gotten better at that over time, I really have. If only I could figure out what else I am doing wrong. I am thinking about that and will post soon regarding my new approach.
I commiserate with you regarding your S5. It is amazing that our WAWs cannot appreciate that there are a vast number of children out there with irresponsible fathers and here we are, willing to give everything to our kids and they cannot see through their own pain. Well, sometimes I actually feel sorry for the WASs. They are caught in this vortex and are drawing everything around them into it. (In the past year my W's favorite word is "salvage", as in "what are we trying to salvage here?". Another one at the beginning was "pulling the plug" as in so-and-so is "pulling the plug" on the marriage. Interesting metaphor for marriage- it's a ship, not it's a bathtub, not it's an electric appliance, ).
Keep your balance (you are doing an exemplary job).
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
I was out for awhile so I probably missed some stuff. I just wanted to comment to the question of the dinner invite. I see that you had the voices of reason telling you No, don't do it. When is the last time you extended an invitation? What was the result if you did?
I want to be the opposite voice and say what really have you got to lose? Is your now ex-W going to dash far far away from you. Is your R going to take a fatal hit if you ask her to dinner with you? What is the worst that could happen? Probably that she could say "NO". I argue that DBing isn't solely about LRT and GAL. It's about trying different approaches and monitoring results. Have you tried the approach of offhandedly asking..."have you eaten yet?" and asking her to accompany you and S5?
Maybe she will say no and then be more aloof for a few days. So what? But what if after a few days she asks you to dinner? Or what if she accepts and you have a very light carefree dinner that you both enjoy?
I say that we do entirely too much "non-pursuing" or at least advocating that approach. As far as I'm concerned that was a small area of the book. The rest had other suggestions. Do you really have anything to lose? At least you can show her how well you handle rejection.
Now I'll leave myself open for criticism for suggesting such sacrilege.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Gabriel- I am going to agree with la_esperanza on the dinner. But you will probably get told "no" a time or 2.
I went through this with H. I had asked him out a few times and was turned down. Finally I got tired of being turned down so I stopped asking.
Well, low and behold, I decided to do something one night and he had commented about NOT being invited and I simply said "I got tired of being shot down so I said the hell with it."
He ended up asking ME to do something. But one thing is for certain........it can't hurt to ask. If she turns you down simply smile and maybe say something like "ok...maybe some other time."
Things do take time and you won't know what you will get until you try
By asking her out to dinner, it opens you up to rejection. It lets her know that you're still interested and the more interested you are, the more she will take that for granted.
It lets her know that you're not 'over' her.
It is persual.
If she DID take you up on your invite and then things progressed, she could backtrack and say it was all your fault because you initiated dinner.
(Andy has said to me before 'it's your fault because if you didn't keep being nice to me I could keep away')!
Or she could say 'you knew I divorced you and we're just friends, it's your fault for reading too much into it.'
Whenever I initiated anything at all, it backfired on me.
As lost said, her H was more interested if she DIDN'T ask.
Let your W do the running. She divorced you, it's up to her.
Jo may be right, but I'm still going to play devil's advocate.
Is it fair to use the same principles for WAWs/ex-wives as for WA husbands/ex-H? Don't men and women respond differently. I think we do. Is it fair to apply the same principles in all of our situations? DB/DR doesn't say use the same techniques. It gives suggestions that can be used. It says do something different. One persons cheeseless tunnel may be another person's dairy farm.
But regardless, Gabe you know your ex-wife better than anyone. You probably have a sense how things will go over. All that matters is results.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Calm down everyone, calm down! (j/k) I'm not asking anyone out to dinner just now. I'm too full from munchin on pistachios while reading all your posts!
I see truth to both sides of this, and do think there's a difference for WAH vs WAS. But I do know my W, and she ain't ready.
But she's definitely softening.
There was a BIG test today. At S5's swim lesson, W told me her condo won't be ready until late Sept/early Oct. To be honest, part of me is frustrated, while the rest of me is just fine with it. She's paying me a fair rent, and I'll make money off of this arrangement for 2 more months. She seemed to tense up when telling me, but I responded calmly, noting "Well, my lease runs thru that time, and I know that you can't control that." I even was able to validate her frustration.
This seemed to relax her, and she talked about her day, S5's space camp experience today, and her condo plans. After his lesson, she asked me if I wanted to see S5 float on his back, and I said yes. W disrobed in front of me, and seemed to strut her stuff to the pool a bit - she looks great. I was able to compliment his swimming and her effort.
This was no small event, given the context. I had 3 female undergrads from my current classes there working as swim instructors/lifeguards, saying "Hello!" to me, which would have sent W into a vicious jealousy rage in the past. And in the past, I would have anticipated that and frozen up. Instead, I stayed relaxed, stayed focused on her, and she seemed to stay relaxed as well.
When S5 called tonight, W told me a bit of her Hawaii plans, and I was able to note that I was happy that she was going on this adventure. I feel myself moving from "As-If-ing" with some of my controlling self seeping thru to worry, to a genuine happiness for her growth.
Martha, thanks for that WOA on my sitch. What - wasn't it good for you, too? I really enjoyed our convo, Hon - don't ever hesitate, please. You fed me, too.
I think my patience is based in a more solid love for self, and this seems to be feeding my ability to be supportive to W (and S5). I'm less irritated by her/his needs, and can celebrate almost any contact with them. This change seems to be helping to heal our R (along w/ W's personal work as well, I'm sure).
I wasn't stewing or anything last night, but I felt myself getting a little soft - in terms of effort and focus on self-improvement, as well as a few too many beer calories from the drinkfest with the Marines. Man, can they hold their liquor! I'm a bonafide lightweight. The long work hrs are helping the pocketbook, but I think I'm starting to stagnate as a whole person. So I went for long run at 10:30pm and then did meditative prayer at home. Focused on the message of John 11:1-45, and really found piece re the D, and this waiting for her change.
This am I was talking to a secretary about my and S5s vacation plans, and W walked in and asked me to come to her office when I could. I went over later and she had a plate of rice krispie treats w/M&Ms for me that she and S5 made. I thanked her and noted that it was very thoughtful of her. Was able to naturally give WOAs for a few other things she's doing with/for S5 as well, including swimming and finding a consumer program that saves for kids colleges called UPromise just thru one's typical purchases. It was a nice comfortable, friendly visit - reminded me of how we were as friends before we starting dating, prior to our starting to playfully flirt.
Good start to the day. I plan to mix in hard work with the gym/a run before picking S5 up for a visit. He's doing space camp today.
I really envy your interactions with your W. I think she is really making efforts in the direction of being a "better" mom. I am not sure if your W is feeding you all these treats to (a) demonstrate that she is indeed working on the mom aspect- in which case your WOAs are great feedback, or (b)expressing her LL to you - I dont know if AOS is her LL or yours, or (c) both of the above. In any case, she is being extremely pro-active. That takes some courage on her part. My advice - please go slow. When my W did this in the past I would start getting all hyped up and - kersplat- back into the hole she went.
If I may, I have a question for you. Is there to change the title of the thread. I feel mine discourages input. Also, I have a question on my thread I would love to hear your input on. Thanks,
UD
The 3 laws of DBing:
1. PMA is critical to DBing.
2. Since drop in WAW's PMA leads to drop in LBS's PMA and vice-versa detachment is critical.
3. Validate to raise WAW's PMA and GAL to raise LBS's.
).
But one thing is for certain........it can't hurt to ask. If she turns you down simply smile and maybe say something like "ok...maybe some other time." 
To be honest, part of me is frustrated, while the rest of me is just fine with it. She's paying me a fair rent, and I'll make money off of this arrangement for 2 more months. She seemed to tense up when telling me, but I responded calmly, noting "Well, my lease runs thru that time, and I know that you can't control that." I even was able to validate her frustration. 