The further I get into DBing, the less useful I find the labeling of people or Rs.
My suggestion is to set up those specific R goals and keep plugging away at them. You can move mountains with such belief and effort, Jo. H may be a very ornery, stubborn mountain, but you've already pulled him quite a distance. Who knows what effort remains, but why not try? Only you can set up the goals that may lead to an ideal R for you and H. Yes, H has been a jerk at times, and yes, he has some major control issues. But I don't know if I'd take one bit of information from a toxic D proceeding ("mutual co-dependency")to use in my current R. Let all of that destructive exchange of misinformation bent on the dissolution of a M (and nothing more) remain in the past, as it likely is hogwash swilled about by Ls to merely validate the D.
You and H share a great love and interest in your DDs. What remains is your creative attempts to fully re-establish your Rs with them. H has no real power over that. Someone posted early a guess that things will likely resolve more quickly when OW moves out. Have you considered having a woman-to-woman heart-to-heart talk with her, noting that its time for her to move on? Especially if you centered this on your love and interest in your DDs?
Pink panther?! One of my alltime favorites! Did you know that Steve Martin is coming out with a remake film this summer? Very odd to see that as a preview.
I went down the legal route for 2 years of this time. I exhausted the British legal system. There is simply nothing more I can do - I can't even get anymore legal aid and I couldn't afford the fees.
Not only that, but the aggression it causes with H makes it not worth it. It upsets me to the point of depression, pulls our dd's in two, and makes him the enermy instead of my H.
I was driven crazy almost to the point of suicide last time round so I know that out of the two options I have, DB'ing is the easier one.
If I were to pursue any kind of action, they would not even let me see a lawyer until we had first been to mediation - which is counselling for H and I.
This STILL involves ASKING H for involvement with my kids and having him turn me down on everything but the 2 days a fortnight I have never wanted to accept, with zero other involvement in their lives.
It's only AFTER he says no to that, that I would have grounds to enlist a lawyer and even after that, we'd get the same biased GAL officer we had last time that would write all offensive reports about me, interogate me for hours etc etc.
In all likeilhood it would take another 2 years by which time my eldest dd would be 11 (and she was only 5 when he left) and the SS (social services) would probably convene a section 37 review and put the kids in care.
Last time around, my H was threatened by the judge with a penal sentance for breaking my orders. So if I went down that route I could end up with a H in prison and my girls in foster care, and that includes DD4 so I would risk losing her too.
Believe me, DB'ing and working on our R's is much easier and less risky than involvement with the authorities.
Aside from anything else I love this man and he says he loves me which I believe.
I believe his problems are due to emotional illness and while there is still feeling there, I will not quit as then I won't have done everything I could to save my R.
I want to stay true to my vows until there comes a time when both of us no longer loves the other person.
Thanks for this. I feel a bit defensive now. Your PMA helps.
My feeling is, a few weeks ago he said ILY for the first time in 3 years, he was talking about commitment ceremonies and that has NEVER happened before in these past years.
He let me have eldest dd on her birthday and that's never happened before either and on one occasion in the last few weeks, he asked me to watch them instead of ex-ow.
I feel like I moved mountains considering everything we have been through and I get a bit disheartened when I have 1 setback in several months and everyone wants me to take him to court
I don't believe my kindness is exceptional, just that I took my vows seriously so I believe that unless you are being raped etc you should not D. I don't take the promises I made lightly which were not snuffed out by the D because clearly we were still having an R when it went through.
If it wasn't to work out, which it may not, and I was lucky enough to meet someone new, I would take my new M with as much seriousness as the first and be as steadfast.
There is no point promising if you don't mean it.
Re the ex-ow, I have tried to broach the subject but she just says she is worried about my girls. She will be forced to go eventually when he does.
I have stated to her she can still visit my dd's after she moves as they all have R's with her and love her so it would be selfish of me not to allow it.
I will just not give myself physically to him and try to exercise more PMA.
When I opened the door, the first thing he said was 'The pink panther, cool!' I turned around to show him the back, as on the front is the front of the pink panther and on the back is his back. He laughed.
He asked for dd4's winter coat as it's cold here, so I gave him that, then he asked me how I was. I said 'Okay'.
He had asked the kids to wait in the car, and the song 'FAMILY PORTRAIT' by Pink was blaring out, y'know the one 'daddy, make momma stop crying..' etc etc. I glumly thought nice choice of song.
This song made me snap at him that he didn't bring the programme for my computer.
He apologised and went off to get a disc out of his car, then he came in and tried to get it started on my computer. The computer kept crashing and wouldn't do what he wanted so he got really annoyed with it.
He told me my website is now offline - OMG. Gabriel, if you happened to mail me, I won't have got anything.
I panicked because my trade will plumet as long as it is offline and I can see me scraping by on welfare. I told him I am doing a web design course and will be qualified in 6 months.
He said that is too late, it needs doing now. Email me your stuff and I will do it.
He is right, I know it, and now I have my work cut out trying to write new stuff for the site. It conflicts with my desire to avoid contact, though, as I would rather not have to email him and generally don't if I can help it.
He asked me what I have been up to so I told him about yesterday and going to the college to enroll and these nightmare bus journeys but I didn't tell him about any other day, just yesterday.
Then he asked 'What's the deal with this egg donation, then?' I think this has him intrigued. I said 'How do you mean?' He said 'Well, why are you doing it?' I smiled at him and said 'For fun.' He looked at me like I was crazy and said 'You think having needles is FUN??' 'Yeah, well, I wanted to do it when we had dd1 and never got round to it.' 'Are you getting paid?' he asked. 'No' I said, 'women don't get paid for egg donation, only men, it's a bit sexist. Men can earn £40 for ejaculating and women get nothing for the pain!' I think he blushed and looked the other way
I left him messing about on my computer while I went to see the girls and I had to tell them off because dd1 and dd2 were hitting each other and screaming at each other in the street They must get that from my wonderful example, I did the same with their dad the other week
It was because dd1 was threatening to throw dd2's swimming gear on the road. I sorted out their dispute and then H came out and told them off again. I said 'It's okay, I've sorted it.'
He went back up to the house. After a bit I went back in and my computer was still crashing so he said I can't do it, you'll have to send me the attachment your customer wants and have me do it for you.
I agreed but only because my customer wants what he paid for.
I went back out to my dd's and gave them all apples in case they were hungry. DD3 started telling me about Mrs Oldham (customer of H's) whom they are going to visit.
Went back to H and he said I have to go to my customer now but have fun at the clinic. I said yeah, I am really looking forward to someone sticking a needle through me to suck eggs out. He cringed and then smiled and said see you on Monday.
When I went back to the house, I discovered he had left his shades behind so I ran ot to give them to him but he was already driving away.
So here I am wearing his shades. They look quite good with the pink panther T shirt
H just knocked on the door again, wanting his shades back.
I said I'd get them and left him outside the door but he came in and asked for a glass of water.
I let him help himself to a glass of water and then he asked me what I had been doing. I told him I had been answering my helpline - it was busy today.
He asks me what I'm doing a lot, doesn't he!? He asked me that already earlier on today.
He was full of smiles and said his week had just been so hectic, he couldn't remember anything. I did not ask what he had been doing, I hardly ever ask in return.
He asked me what times my college course was on. I said it's a drop-in learning centre so you can go and study whenever you like.
He asked if he could have dd4 while I was studying, and I said I would figure out which day I am going to go in and let him know my schedule when I have thought what is better for me.
He said okay and asked where the college was. I described the location and he said 'okay, cool' and then he left and I said I'd call on Monday after my hospital appointment to let him know to bring dd4 back.
Quote: He asks me what I'm doing a lot, doesn't he!?
Jo, Andy is doing some of the relationship work. The more he does, the better it is for you. It may not be what you want all of the time though. In my situation, sometimes the more I do, the more screw ups I make.
One C we went to said the more one person chases, the more the other person walks away. So let Andy chase you and only let him catch a little of you once in a while. Hard to do, I know.
In psychology terms, there is a theory of "Intermittent and Variable Rewards" Pet training I am not suggesting you try to "train" anyone. Just made a link so you might come up with some ideas of your own. Supposedly people seek pleasure and avoid pain.
One idea I read about is you can "over reward" pets and people. That is why I said let him catch you once in a while. Subjects that get rewarded too often dont appreciate the reward. Subjects that get too few rewards give up.
Some of this also applies to working with mentally retarded / low IQ children, trying to get them to learn new skills. We also modified the steps and used them on the deliquent boys in the grouphome where I worked.
Don't think this is weird stuff. I do work to get paid just like you do. That is not much different than the pet training, just on a larger scale.
OG Lou BTW I relate to the Co-Dependency stuff too. Inter dependency is good untill it becomes co-dependency.
I've got to agree with TAG on this one. From what I've read, I don't believe either of you knows what you want, but you continue to worry about what the other one is doing.
From what I see, to H it appears as if nothing has changed.
Did you know that Steve Martin is coming out with a remake film this summer? Very odd to see that as a preview.
