Hi midwest - Sorry about not picking up on this sooner
Quote: Do you have other books that are influencing your journey? I love books, so I thot there might be some more to explore.
Early on, I got hooked on Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. Of course Michele's DR, and SSM. Mars/Venus.
I also saw this list over at eyesopened's thread in the KLA section, and thought it may be useful
Quote: Books That Have Helped Me in Addition to the KLA CDs The Divorce Remedy by Michele Weiner-Davis Feeliing Good and The Feeling Good Handbook by David Burns, MD (cognitive behavior therapy for changing thought patterns) For Women Only by Shaunti Feldhahn (information about men and marriage based on surveys) Getting Through to the Man You Love by Michele Weiner-Davis His Needs, Her Needs by Willard Harley (the only relationship book I could get my H to read, but H's response to it gave me a starting point and motivation to make my own changes in our marriage) Love is Never Enough by Aaron Beck (cognitive behavior therapy applied to couples) Sacred Marriage by Gary Thomas (Christian book on marriage that I often turn to for motivation when feeling discouraged) The Sex-Starved Marriage by Michele Weiner-Davis What Could He Be Thinking? by Michael Gurian (book about differences between men and women with information about differences in male and female brains - this book helped me learn to stop personalizing some of the things H does) Why Marriages Succeed or Fail by John Gottman (also The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work --Gottman has studied and observed couples using "rigorous scientific procedures"--these books have information on stonewalling, why men are more likely to stonewall and the effect on their spouses and marriage)
Hi Lnl - Thanks for stopping by - happily, the migraine is behind me But, it was an instructional experience on how we can adjust our expectations. Prior to the pain setting in, I had all sorts of plans, and therefore expectations. Once I was in the grip of the migraine, all I wanted was for the pain to go away. Everything else seemed secondary. I saw over at Tessa's thread an interesting post on expectations by NYSurvivor - it spoke so clearly to my struggles, I'm going to try to process some of it here.
Quote: Like there was one day she said she'd contact me that day, and didn't. Had I been my old self, I would've gotten frustrated that she didn't write when she said she would; I'd wonder what's going on; why would she do that; how could she promise to email and then not keep it and get incensed and probably even complain to her about it or bring it up...
But, since I modified my behavior to not need others to meet my expectations, what I felt was this: she didn't write, oh well, that's too bad. Something probably came up. or she didn't get around to it. So what? I'll speak to her another time.
Much calmer, much less thought and attention given to it, no angst whatsoever.
I still have problems with this, because I feel that it is only polite to inform the other party if our plans change. NG seems to have no problem breaking his word about calling back, though he has so far been good about letting me know if there are problems with any actuals dates.
Quote: About "lowering" expectations. While that sounds like a step, it's still keeping expectations. Expectations can be not met in two ways: 1. By not having the outcome realized at all and 2. By having the outcome realized but not as expected
So, even with a lowered expectation, the expectation stands the same chance of not being met. But there's more of a reason to get to zero expectations rather than keep them, albeit "lowered".
The question becomes, why do we have expectations, anyway? Isn't it, in essence, a shifting of responsibility from ourselves to another person, thus making them responsible to act according to our picture of what is right and perfect and acceptable? Of course, our own sense of what is idealistic, as I mentioned before, is sure to be met by failure from others, as they think differently than us, will act differently than us, and will do as they see fit, which is perfectly valid for them to do. Additionally, not even we ourselves will always act up to our own expectations, so how can we ever expect others to?
This has been my huge problem. Even lowered, expectations seem to be too high. So yes, really best I have none. Just get on with my own thing. Because yes, there are times when I cannot meet my own expectations (and this is perhaps the most frustrating of all ) so how can I possibly expect someone else to meet them?
Quote: When others fail to live up to our expectations, we tend to place blame. We tend to get frustrated. That frustration leads to depression. A rift is caused that prevents healing. It creates an "I'm right/you're wrong" competition or division in the relationship. It points to a lack in communication. It means you cannot accept your partner for who he or she is. It creates a feeling of insecurity. It creates distrust. It creates a power struggle for control in the relationship. It's a variation of the "my way or the highway" type of thinking.
Lots of good reasons not to have expectations at all. Ask yourself why must things be as per your expectations? Ask yourself why do you believe that your way of thinking is best or better than others? Ask yourself why do you cling to those beliefs? Visualize what the relationship could be like if you were freed from that thinking. Visualize what your relationship would be like if you and your partner were not chained by the other's expectations but were free to grow and each of you could simply be yourselves and how magnificent it can be to love someone and be loved for being yourselves.
I guess this is what we do at the begining of a relationship, and just maybe, the flush of romance has a lot to do with the lack of expectations?
Slowly, Your book list and add ons are so appreciated. I need to read and think about the expectations post. It certainly hits home for me as well. Certainly puts it all in down to earth language. I'm thinking it is a gold mine...very close to a mother lode. Thanks again. Glad migraine is history. Hope your week in full of sunshine. Midwest
But why shouldn't we expect good things from the people we love? We deserve to expect good things. I know, I know. I'm having a hard time now because I have zeroed my expectations and now that H wants to be included again, I neglect to do so. Just because I don't expect him to be around or to care. Downer, sorry. I'm trying.
Each experience in life has formed me, become part of me, made me stronger.
Quote: maybe, the flush of romance has a lot to do with the lack of expectations?
Maybe it's that at the beginning we are trying so hard to meet the other person's expectations. We clean up before a date -- while in a M, you "come as you are" a lot of the time. In dating, you expect some kind of event, like dinner, movies, live performances, hikes, etc. while in M, you have laundry, dishes, bills and kids with their own darn schedules.
I think in a partnership you have to have expectations. But they need to be spoken and understood by each partner. That's where I fell down in my M. I didn't speak my expectations, and was really disappointed when H failed to meet them. It's on me because I didn't tell him what I expected clearly, non-judgmentally and openly. I didn't give him the chance to speak his objections to my expectations, either.
What do I mean when I say "expectations"? I expected him to change diapers. I expected him to help prepare meals. I expected him to take part in house cleaning. I expected him to be a full partner in parenting. I expected him to go to work and do a good job. I expected him to be faithful.
I assumed he knew my expectations, but we all know what happens when we assume!
Hi midwest - Thank you for the affirmation - its so good to have fellow travellers I just wish I did not have to re-learn this over and over again, you know? Seems like I do some hard work, things go well, and in come the old, bad habits again. Ugh.
NG is away all week on a business trip, unfortunately I could not tag along this time. So, its going to be a tough one, but I've planned ahead. Got dates every nite with family, friends and on Weds, a facial - wahoo
Michelle, you are very helpful in sharing your thoughts. About expectations...My W commented that we just do not have fun. Well, as I read your message about expectations and communication these expectations to your S: when and if we do all this, our live become somewhat like a business! It is always about TAKING care of stuff, resolving issues, handling satiations. Ironically, W and do it great! We are good business partners. But this business partnership takes away the FUN! It is very frustrating subject. Sometimes I wish we had more arguments as to how we run our family; we would have at least non emotional issue to work on. Thanks.
Michelle, I would appreciate if you read my story. Your opinion and advice would be so appreciated.
Slowly
But, it was an instructional experience on how we can adjust our expectations. Prior to the pain setting in, I had all sorts of plans, and therefore expectations. Once I was in the grip of the migraine, all I wanted was for the pain to go away. Everything else seemed secondary. I saw over at Tessa's thread an interesting post on expectations by NYSurvivor - it spoke so clearly to my struggles, I'm going to try to process some of it here. 
